I’m a 38 year old man and all my life I have been somewhat socially rejected. Despite that, I have been single for 1.5 years and the women I go on dates with almost all really like me, to the point that they always want to kiss, see me again, and even have sex after our dates. However, when I go to parties people treat me like a pariah, avoiding me and never engaging when I try to talk to them. I just got home from a party and I felt very rejected by the people there. I do not think the people are bad, I just think there is some primal signal I am sending out that causes them to judge me as low value and not worth befriending.
As long as I can remember, from preschool at about age 3, I was somewhat socially excluded. The other kids knew that I was someone to bully, and not to respect. Why that is I don’t know, but again I think it is something primal, rather than the kids being bad people. I was, for want of a better term, a “loser” all through school and even university.
I just got home from a party where I had a couple of close friends and a couple of people I met once or twice before, but otherwise knew no one. My friends, who are some of the most charming people I’ve ever met and able to pick up women like no one I’ve ever met were able to charm everyone at the party. I, on the other hand, when trying to strike up conversations with anyone, find that people don’t engage me and try to look for someone else to talk to mid conversation with me.
Recently I went out with 2 friends for drinks who I play sport with, and they spent the whole night talking to each other. Looking at each other during their conversation and not looking at me while speaking, to the point I felt like a third wheel.
I am not looking for sympathy or reassurance, nor do I think any of these people are bad people, but I think the problem lies with me. I know other friends I have who I do the same thing to, where I know I don’t enjoy their company and I know others don’t as well. But what I don’t know is why.
I am somewhat gym fit, to the point that I am lean and have muscles, which makes me somewhat physically attractive. My friends, who can out charm me any day of the week are fatter and less fit than I am, but in a party setting always have the girls interested in them rather than me. As I mentioned, when I go on dates with girls I meet on the apps, they almost always go well and the girls all really seem to like me. I have attractive women pretty much begging me for more dates when I’m not interested in them. Not bragging but just trying to point out the inconsistency in my social outcomes.
What is it that I’ve been putting out there my whole life that makes me not charming? Makes people at parties or in group settings want to avoid me or not engage with me? Makes me seem low value or not someone to respect?
Again I’m not looking for sympathy or reassurance, I want practical advice. And I know there will be a lot of people reading this who can relate to this story. I believe there are fundamental signals that I and others in the same situation are sending out that cause people to instinctually treat us this way and I feel if there was a practical remedy it may help the situation. So please don’t tell me what a great person I am when you’ve never met me, nor tell me how horrible all these people are because they aren’t. They’re just people being people, and if you asked them why they treat me this way I’m sure they couldn’t verbalise a reason because it’s so primal and instinctual.
But I’m hoping someone in this community can give me and others in the same situation some practical advice that might help us improve this situation. Advice based on science and understanding of human social behaviour. Can you offer advice?
4 comments
Wow, well thanks for setting the stage in such detail, but I’m most impressed by your self awareness and your insight into what’s going on. Most people in your shoes blame “the world” for not accepting them and really don’t look inward for wanting to know what could be causing that.
Everything you describe points to something being off in your “vibe.” (Vibe is a term I use to describe to the “feeling” people get from you when they meet you.) Most often vibe is the positive expression of what’s going on in your inner self, your heart/mind/soul. (not trying to get too touchy feely on that!) Also a vibe can be negative, or boring or off-putting.
I have a lot of ideas on this and how you can transform that (wrote a whole book on the topic, lol!), but I’d also point out that you have some friends who are VERY good at this. It might be worth looking at what they’re doing and really STUDYING it, as opposed to simply observing them as you have been. WHAT do they do that works so well?
Second aspect is, if they’re close friends you could actually ASK them what you’re doing wrong or could be doing better. Pick one of them, have a one-on-one, and tell him you’re starting on a journey of self improvement, so you’re looking for some solid constructive feedback on what you could be doing differently to make better social connections. Now the success in this will depend on how insightful the friend is, and hopefully they will be honest but not hurtful in any comments.
But beyond that I’ll drop a few ideas. One is, some traits that are almost universally admired, which I call ECHO: Enthusiasm, Confidence, Humor & Optimism. (How many of those do your charming friends have?) Most people don’t have all four, but even developing two of them will definitely get you started down a better path.
Another idea: WHAT you say isn’t nearly as important as HOW you say it. Things said with confidence, warmth, playfulness are much more impactful than anything said in a monotone, with low energy, or if you’re unsure of yourself.
It’s admittedly tough to project confidence if you don’t truly have it. I always suggest practicing your vibe NOT in your social life, but in smaller, more anonymous transactional situations. With people like: grocery cashiers, bank tellers, gym attendants, coffee servers, store clerks, dry cleaners etc. Things you can work on: make eye contact and light up a big genuine smile, give an energetic greeting “HEY, how’s it GOING?” or “HI, how ARE you?” (note emphasis of certain words to add friendliness) Practice dropping a comment, a compliment, a bit of humor. The vibe to go for is friendly, energetic, PLAYFUL. People tend to do these transactions on conversational autopilot, but you can really bring a LOT more to it if you try, and you should be working on your vibe EVERY time in these situations.
Generally with people What You Give is What You Get. So the better vibe you get off, 95 percent of the time is what you’ll get back. (there’s always an exception or someone having a bad day, but MOST people respond well) Practice this until it becomes a superpower. Note that YOU can determine the tone of any interaction! When you get great at this you can easily transfer it to your social life.
Confidence is built one interaction at a time.
Also be assured you have more than half your life to live still. Start working on this NOW, and the rest of your life will be greatly improved, guaranteed!
In addition to my own book (it’s called “Change Your Vibe: How to Lifehack Your Way to Social Success” on Amazon) I also recommend The Charisma Myth by Olivia Fox Cabane.
You can do this!
Good luck.
You are probably right about their being fundamental signals that make others tend to avoid you. We don’t have enough information to tell you what those signals might be, though. There are a lot of different things it can be. It can be your disposition, your appearance, the manner of your speech, the things that you say, your facial expressions, etc etc. There is no information in your post that could provide an answer.
The only useful data is that you do not know and do not seem to have the tools to learn, which suggests your theory of mind may be poor. Do you think about what other people are thinking about? Are you able to imagine the POV of others? Do other people often surprise you with their reactions?
One hint may be in your attitude towards others. If people knew exactly what you were thinking and feeling at all times, would they still want to talk to you? Do you have warm and loving feelings towards others, or are you hostile and cold on the inside? Do you care for others, or are you mostly concerned with your own welfare? Do you generally experience other people as threats? Do you find yourself ‘faking it’ a lot, are you mostly pretending to be someone in order to be liked? If you have feelings of fear, distrust, hostility, resentment, or any other anti-social sentiments you will probably communicate that in subtle non-verbal ways. In the cure in that case is to identity why you feel the way you do and to try to come to a more sensible and loving attitude towards others. If the very thought of being ‘loving’ makes you cringe then you already have some clue as to what others may be sensing about your inner motivations.
Try, if you can, to begin making connections. Look for exactly when other people start to resent your company and consider the events that preceded that moment. That might give you some vital data on what it is that others are responding to.
Think about it this way. You want people to text/invite/connect with you, which is fine. But why should people text/invite/connect with you ? The truth is people subconsciously attach you to the value you bring to your interactions. In other words, there has to be a clear, unique, and convincing reason for people to reach out to you. People gather this from the quality of conversations you have with them. You reaching out or knowing them for a long time isn’t simply enough for them to reach out to you. You have to genuinely connect with them in person, be confident in expressing yourself in person, and bring positive vibes. Even better, find ways to add to people’s lives. Maybe you have a skill, hobby, or talent that aligns with people’s interests. Let them know about it. Offer to help people in some aspect of life. People respect those who impact their lives.
In general, people are hardwired to be repulsed by neediness and desperation. They gravitate towards somebody who is self confident and well-rounded in life. You need to focus on becoming genuinely busy in life pursuing your goals and hobbies, while learning how to interact with other people on the side. Find something you enjoy doing or are passionate for and keep doing it overtime. Find groups in your area who are also pursuing the same thing. Chase excellence, not people.
These replies are insightful but also soul crushing. I can’t fix my vibe because anxiety and depression has taken over my life. Therapy and medication never helped. I only find temporary relief with recreational drugs.