Edit: ‘defeatist’ might be a better term, but you get what I mean
…and I am saying this as a cynical person myself. There are so many self-depreciating posts, rants about how dating is not worth it, how women have unreasonable standards etc. I would understand men in their 40s and 50s saying that, but teens and guys in early 20s? Come on.
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Because dating as a man feels like playing a game but your opponent wrote the rules and changes them at will
And no one will ever tell you the rules
Because reddit is infested with Misogynists and Misandrists. So of course dating subreddits will be a minefield for toxicity
Also, women are just as bad on here as the men. Seen the werid crap they say about men. Calling men POS simply for having preferences where the man just doesn’t want to date single mothers or overweight women. There is a whole subreddit that calls men “Low Value” if they don’t make 500k annually. Its werid.
It seems both men and women on here have gave up on love. A lot of men on here seem to only care about is if she looks like a supermodel to obtain to show off how “Alpha” he is and a lot of women on here seem to think Men are ATM machines who should give them everything jusy for being them. They don’t view the opposite gender as humans.
Yet I’m attending a wedding next month between a woman who isn’t skinny and a man who isn’t ultra rich. Who both would be consider “Low value” by their respective side yet they are happy in love.
Reddit is BS and isn’t representative of the real world.
Reddit is way too Men vs Women.. it irks me. Fuck gender wars. Reddit is filled with miserable losers it seems.
A lot of relationships are trash, so being cynical about them is pretty easy.
Also Reddit is skewed a little and isn’t the population at large.
What sub are you on? Places with non-stop depression rants that devolve into complaining about women usually get banned pretty quickly.
Do you not see that your own self admitted cynical nature may have influenced your views on these posts?
Personally, I don’t see most posts as self depreciating. I see them as self critical and it’s often based on how they are perceived by their surroundings. Men have to constantly uphold this impression of being confident and secure irl while being constantly battered by opinions saying otherwise. Naturally, this weighs on them and when they are online and anonymous all those bottled up feelings come spilling out.
Same thing with the unreasonable standards part. You view it as a hyperbole, while I just see it as people speaking about the reality that they live in. Based on your profile I’m guessing you’ve managed to convince yourself that you’ve somehow hacked the system or got a level of arrogance that presents yourself as above it all. But unless you’re actually part of that 0.1%, I’m guessing you’re just stuck on the same hamster wheel as the rest of us but convinced yourself otherwise.
I don’t comment too much on relationship posts that have to deal with breakups and/or crazy/cheating girlfriends. I don’t have the perspective. I’m a living and breathing walking anomaly among mankind. All of my LTRs ended on good terms. And every time it ended, it had something to do with life circumstances and/or someone having to move for work or school. Of course, my first wife passed away at age 23 – but we can still consider that as “ending” on good terms, cause we did. Currently, I’ve been married 19 years and with the same woman for 22 years. All-in-all, I have had wonderful women in my life. I have no idea what I did to deserve them and just the overall positive experiences. I have nothing negative to say. I know……this is really weird. I just don’t have a background of being miserably crushed by a SO. But I’ve had my share of friends and family members that have gone through the crazy SOs and divorces.
A lot of men and women on reddit have huge issues in relationships and with dating in general and end up venting. There are good news stories as well but they tend to get posted less and often don’t get as much attention.
Men tend to get frustrated with the standards expected of them on the dating scene.
Women tend to get frustrated with being used for sex and not getting whatever they want in the relationships they have.
The reality is a lot of the people who are constantly running into problems non-stop are the issue themselves. If someone is posting about how all the men they date are awful or all the women they date are awful odds are that person is the actual problem.
I don’t date men so I can’t speak to the issues women see but I’ve read the posts from some of the women venting about men and I wouldn’t touch some of those women with a 20 foot pole. It doesn’t surprise me they always end up single or miserable in their relationships. Some of the married women in particular seem to be totally out to lunch in terms of what they think they should have, I blame that on the fact they probably have not been on the dating scene in a long time.
People generally moan or ask advice when things are going badly, happy people are too busy enjoying themselves
Relationships are deemed a luxury item in the western world. Luxuries can be given up or discarded on a whim because we’ve always told ourselves that there is always that true love so why settle for something if it doesn’t make you happy anymore since that obviously wasn’t true love.
People chase a fantasy and get burned out when it doesn’t work.
Love and happiness was never a core part of relationships in human history. It’s always been procreation and duty. It was just great if you were also happy and in love but those were bonuses not features.
You need to think about who your average redditor is.
To some extent, selection bias
In general, the men with happy relationships are unlikely to be sitting on an anonymous Internet forum giving their two cents on a strangers relationship problems.
You tried dating, apps, lately, OP?
It’s a fucking disaster out there.
The vast majority of choices are single moms, Jabba the Hutt body doubles, Kat Von D wannabes, argumentative types, drama, BPD, the list goes on and on…and if you aren’t a CK underwear model, with the 3 6s…yeah, don’t even try!
The cynicism is well-placed, OP!
The folks here tend to be more introverted and not super social, so that plays into their lack of success in dating.
That and people like to fume on relatively anonymous websites – Reddit being one such example.
This is an anonymous forum for venting.
Most people – both men and women – have unrealistic expectations for their significant other, and never learn the patience and humility to compromise and put in the hard work it takes to keep a relationship moving forward. It takes constant hard work to keep a relationship healthy – and even then there are ups and downs.
Because of social media, movies, and tv shows – many people look at all the good/enthusiastic/happy stuff their family and friends (and total strangers) post about themselves and their families, not realizing all the ugly stuff that is hidden behind closed doors. This is what helps to cause the unrealistic expectations.
TLDR: relationships are messy, and many people don’t have the stomach to take the bad with the good.
Because when it’s going fine people don’t feel the need to post and comment much. Anonymous online forums invite venting, it’s just the nature of the beast.
It’s like bad reviews for a product. You read the hundreds of people who had a problem, the other millions of people are enjoying it.
I think online dating has a lot to do with this. What online dating like Tinder essentially does it enable the top X% (maybe 10%) of men to sleep with pretty much all of the women, while pretty much everyone else loses out. This leads to several things:
1. Men believe that the standards of women are way higher than it is
2. Women believe that all men are assholes, who are just trying to get them in bed
1 above leads to the problem that “reasonable” men will not approach women, because they lost confidence in the dating game as a whole. 2 leads to the problem that when normal guys approach women, they are much more likely to reject them, because they have the feeling that all men are just assholes trying to get them into bed. The 90% men does then not have the social skills to actually convince these women that they are not assholes, because they have no experience, because they get rejected from the outset based on looks/perceived wealth/some other bullshit measure. It is a never-ending cycle, that can pretty much only be prevented by everyone adopting the idea that dating can only happen in person.
People in healthy relationships don’t complain about them on Reddit. It’s a confirmation bias.
It’s like a therapist going “damn there are so many people with issues” well duh, well adjusted people are less likely to need a therapist.
Typically, people post asking for help with problems. Those in great relationships aren’t out here posting about it.
But I’ll give you one. Wife and I both have previous marriages, and we know what we will/will not tolerate. Been going strong for 20 years, and just as happy as we were at the beginning.
Reddit is filled with the mentally ill. One person said on here once that it’s selfish to have kids because you don’t know if they want to be born or not. That kind of stupidity is almost all confined to Reddit. Don’t ask why Reddit is the way it is, just know that it is that way.
It’s the mentally ill reinforcing the mentally ill.
Let’s see.
First girlfriend cheated on me with and then dated one of my best friends after 4 years together. Seeing them at parties was fun.
Spent most of the next 3 years alone, with a couple flings and hook ups scattered here and there.
Met second girlfriend, after 2 years was sure I’d found the right one. 4 years in, she starts avoiding me out of nowhere, refused to see me for a month for one reason or another, then dumped me for some other guy.
Spent the last 3 years the same as the 3 between relationships.
Last week I started talking to a girl from Hinge. Texting was fun, convos went well. Shared interests, sense of humor, seemed to get along. Last text I got from her was “yep see you tomorrow :)” the night before the date. I made reservations, got a new shirt, cleaned the shit out of my house and car, got there 30 mins early.
She no showed and blocked me. Didn’t say anything, just didn’t show up and when I tried to call it said call failed. Texts wouldn’t deliver. This is the first date I was really looking forward to in a long time.
You tell me how I’m supposed to avoid cynicism. I’m not going blackpill depression I hate women mode, but the constant effort and rejection is wearing on me. Especially with how my relationships ended, I feel disposable. And I can’t imagine meeting someone who doesn’t see me as such.
Because feminism isn’t about equality, and when a large number of women just assume men to be the enemy then the benefits of relationships can be outweighed by the risks.
Just an opinion
Cynical or realistic?
Luckily I’m out of the game, but from what I hear, dating ain’t like it used to be. With social media and dating apps, it seems like people have lost their ever loving minds so having a healthy relationship is a lot more difficult when there’s so many sick people out there.
Because they realized the truth?
I’m not blaming anyone else for it. I’m just old, black, and ugly. I get it. Apparently I’m not alone in my honest self observation.
I think a few factors come into play:
1. Dating applications have contributed to setting unrealistic expectations. Many *young* women are under the illusion that they have more options at a real relationship than they realistically have due to swaths of men swiping on them. Realistically, their chances of a real relationship on these apps are no different than real-life, but I suspect that it takes *some* a while to get to that conclusion after a few short-terms, FWB arrangements, and hookups.
2. Young men are being taught that masculinity is toxic and that they need to not embrace it for the comfort of *others*. I think this is very harmful and may contribute to anxiety and depression when they’re being constantly told how to behave/act. This negative effect is further amplified when a proper male role model is non-existent. This results in confused and depressed males with little confidence for a relationship.
3. Men being shamed about what they do. Women care more about what men do than the opposite. Blue collar work is looked down upon and many women won’t give a blue-collar man the time of day (even when making more money).
4. Women being sold the idea that they need to focus on education and self-improvement above all else. So we end up with a subset of society that spends their 20s and early 30s dating for convenience (rather than a life-long relationship) while they pursue their *goals*. Of course, many regret that choice after they get a glimpse of their dating prospects in their 30s and 40s.
All in all, it’s become increasingly difficult to find a quality partner who’s willing to go through the ups and downs of life, and people are implicitly being told that a ~ career ~ is more important than a relationship. It’s no wonder that men are becoming cynical towards relationships. I have a wonderful GF who I intend to marry, but if things go south for whatever reason in the future, I will not be bothering with relationships anymore.
A massive amount of abuse and being told to suck it up and stop being a bitch/I deserved it because I have a dick and she didn’t.
We’ve lived and lived through a lot.
Statistically, men in their forties and fifties have been burned in at least one relationship.
Younger men in their teens and twenties have watched their fathers, uncles, older cousins, etc., get burned in relationships.
Do you honestly think those things can happen without consequences?
EDIT- To be fair, reddit isn’t representative of mainstream society at all. So, maybe we shouldn’t draw too many conclusions about the state of modern culture based on reddit shitposting.
We know a thing or two, because we’ve seen a thing or two
Those in happy relationships are too busy having sex to be on Reddit.
Dating isn’t worth the time, energy, or money anymore. Women do tend to have unrealistic expectations, while men are expected to ignore any and all faults. Men are supposed to completely ignore a woman’s past. Becoming comfortable being alone is an amazing thing.
>how women have unreasonable standards
Because this is partly true in terms of looks
>but teens and guys in early 20s? Come on.
This is the most brutal demographic because now we live in the data era where we see everyone’s actions being recorded. Just look at social media and all the guys that women swoon over on there (strong jawline, tall, hollow cheek area, ripped, rich, etc)
Just look up the graph detailing rise in young sexless males
More and more guys are beginning to catch onto the importance of looks now, and apparently people don’t like that.
Because it’s full of teenagers and 20somethings who have no clue about life yet
Cause its the truth. There was a study some years ago, that found out 80% of women aim for the top (succesfull) 20% of men. They eventually settle with one below. But oh boy, this guy has then hustle for her affection. You see the problem?
Ser, I think you should break up with Reddit. Get out while you can
It’s a place to vent. Don’t take it to heart.
> I would understand men in their 40s and 50s saying that, but teens and guys in early 20s? Come on.
What do you mean by that? Why can one group say something but the other cant?
We’re here on the internet. If you were in a good relationship you’re unlikely to be commenting about it online. These platforms are designed to attract cynical, unhappy and angry people. No doubt there’s good folkntoo but the majority are not them.
Online dating creates a checklist environment for both sexes. Im 32 and have single friends and their version of dating is way different than when we were in our early twenties when I met my wife and if you liked someone you would just approach them in person. Both sexes have unreasonable standards and checklists
Have you met humans?
I don’t think it’s reddit specifically. My other male friends are constantly banging their heads against a wall with how frustrating dating is and how disadvantaged they are because they’re just men.
I’ve got one friend very smart in stem. Pretry attractive, tall, goes to the gym. Girls don’t like him because he’s too nerdy though…so they want really smart but no nerds…
I’ve got another friend who’s very social, driven, chiseled, and making good money. To short, so it’s a no from girls…so nothing he’ll ever be able to do about that.
I’ve got another friend who’s funny, has a real bad boy presence, really socially competent, makes good money, tall, above average in looks, but he has a blue color job…so girls think he’s not smart. So your job has to sound good too.
I have another friend who’s tall, moderately funny in the way girls like, chiseled, friendly, with a nice smile and a good paying job that sounds smart. Still a nope for the girls…I don’t know why really, he seems to be pretty spot on for what girls want.
(BTW by tall in the above I mean 6’00” or taller)
The girls I’m friends with are all average looking or below, don’t make particularly good money, don’t really have too many skills, don’t really workout at all, arent particularly funny or socially competent…they all have boyfriends. The bar is so fucking low for them and so amazingly high for my friends that I can see all this “totally just on reddit” stuff in real time bro.
Few things;
online dating, its reduced dating to catalog shopping, so as a man if your not hot model looking your odds are grim.
The loss of spaces to meet people, nowadays its social taboo to talk to women about dating. Hell it can be career destroying if you try it at work and she goes to HR.
More divorces, having a-lot more bitter men who feel cheated by marriages can only add to the overall view point.
Quite the selection bias, on the contrary it seems everyone in reddit is married with perfect, understanding partners.
It also does change from sub to sub like you’re likely to hear stories about terrible men and toxic relationships in r/twoxchromosomes
Wow. As a male in his 50s I feel attacked by your “understanding” if I were cynical. The irony is that I find my age bracket are more confident, happy and definitely less cynical than the younger generations. In general the cynical behavior you see on here is a reflection of the population of reddit.
It’s because younger and younger men are opening their eyes and not living in ignorant fantasy.