I am making this post because I believe I have reached a crossroads in my relationship. I have been in a relationship for nearly 3 years. I am 31 and my partner is 25. I have recently started to look at where things are going for us if we take the next step and I started to get a little fearful..
I have absolutely no debt (car is paid off) and make 85k a year (medical field) with an emergency fund and about 25k in investments. I have worked extremely hard to get to the position I am in so I can eventually provide for a family and chase financial dreams like owning rental properties etc.
My GF has 200k in student loan debt (got a bachelors at a private university, changed career plans, went back to school) and as far as I am aware around 2k in credit card debt. She is now in school for nursing (BSN/RN) and is planning to go into injectable cosmetics when finished.
She is stating that when she gets out she will be making around 75k to start and will pay $2,500 a month in student loans for 10 years to get out of debt. When she is finished with school it will be around 230K student loans in total (80% of them private loans with variable interest from 5-14%)
I truly love this girl. She has so many qualities I never thought I would find in a partner, but this debt is something that I feel will really hinder the quality of my life due to the fact that with those monthly payments she basically wont be able to save any money at all.. for 10 years.
When I bring up my concerns she asks “how will my finances create struggle/sacrifice for you?” I guess ultimately because in a partnership/marriage her finances become my finances and we tackle them as a team. Its going to be a lot to carry to get us both debt free and I am already there… Its a hard thing to process.
Just looking for advice from anyone at this point because I feel like a selfish asshole…
but I also have dreams I have been killing myself for.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
8/18/22
Context:
After thinking about things overnight and having a few of my patients cancel this morning I want to add some context to the above.
For the first 1.5-2 years of our relationship I was the financial provider. She had recently finished her undergrad degree when we met (that is where the 200k came from, private insanely expensive university). She was at a stage that she was figuring things out for her life.
I found out about the debt after about 6 months and after a year I began to ask her ‘what is your plan for your career?’ She would often get upset, but I know this is because she regrets getting into the debt she did. Finally about a year ago she told me the plan for nursing and getting into botox etc.
She is not in nursing school yet, but she is accepted. She begins in the spring of 2023. The loans will climb from 200k to 200K plus whatever is costs to do a nursing program.
I should note that I am a specialist in my field (medical) and should see my income increase over the next few years to around 110k-125k.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Another note:
I appreciate the nurses who have commented and revealed the reality of her plan and the salary she will start out at. This has made me realize I might be ignorant in not digging deeper into the industry and if the salaries or earnings she is giving me are even logical.
I also appreciate those who are breaking down the financial aspects. Rose colored glasses can often make you forget the reality of interest etc.. The numbers I am seeing make my head spin.
I appreciate those of you who see this from both sides. The ones who acknowledge the questions as complex instead of “if you love her you will stay” and also instead of “cut and run because money”…. its more complicated than that.
Finally, even if some of your comments are simple ones, they are making me think about this and actually turn a LOOK at the situation instead of just blindly hoping for the best. So thank you ALL for that. I will keep you updated as things progress and also continue to read/reply to your comments as they come in.
31 comments
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You are right to be concerned. Do not move forward until you get more info on if this debt is assumed by u if you get married plus. A lot of her income will go to pay her debt meaning most of the daily expenses will be on you.
>When I bring up my concerns she asks “how will my finances create struggle/sacrifice for you?”
Considering this is being asked by a person who has a university degree and is currently in graduate school, this seems like straight up gaslighting. “How will spending a quarter million of YOUR dollars to pay off MY enormous debts be a sacrifice, it’s just sooo mysterious?”
I don’t think you’re an asshole for being concerned about the financial aspect of this.
I think it would help if one or both of you had a reasonable career path that you could plot out towards higher income. If both of you stay at salaries you are at now, I agree this debt will be painful to live with. You say she’s going to be starting out at 75K, I don’t know this field very well, but what does that look like in a few years? Is there a reasonable promotional path to a $200k+ pay down the line? (not saying 200k is the threshold, just giving that as an example) I think the answer to this should factor into your decision.
Honestly, this shit baffles me! 220K in debt? I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.
I’ll be the contrarian here and agree with your GF.
To some extent she is right, these will be her debts not yours. Student loans, at least in the scenario you describe, aren’t going to be considered marital property or debt. So technically/legally speaking they aren’t your debts. Real life, of course you are going to help her pay them off, but strictly speaking you have no obligation to do so.
Also you can do 2500 over 10 years, or like 800 over 30. I realize in the end that’s more money paid back, but it could open up some money in your monthly budget to save.
I guess one question I have is, you say you’ve killed yourself to get in your current financial position and have your own dreams.
Well weigh those dreams against being with this girl. Because to some extent it will come down to that. Dream vacation/dream purchase or living with your gf? I honestly don’t know, you need to figure out the relative importance of these things to you.
Also consider there are maybe known unknowns and unknown unknowns. Maybe she’ll get a big inheritance in the next ten years and will pay off her debt and this will be a non issue. Maybe they will get forgiven through some program. Maybe she will parlay this into a job that ends up paying 200k and then her payments will not seem so overwhelming.
Just saying, if money were everything then yeah leave her. But life sure isn’t all about money, at least to a lot of us. So weigh it all out. Just remember – you can’t buy love, but you can’t buy back the years of your life either!
I wouldn’t continue the relationship. She is gonna be in debt most of her adult life. This type of debt is fine for a doctor or maybe lawyer. How can you plan for a future house or kids with that much debt?
She clearly made a series of extremely, extremely terrible decisions that will affect her for the rest of her life. Just consider…
* If she manages to find a job making $75k/year after graduating, that will be about $56,198/year in actual take home pay depending on the state you live in. That’s about $4,683/month take home pay.
* She plans to spend $2,500/month on loans for ten years. That’s more than 50 percent of her monthly take home pay, leaving her with $2,183.
* Unless you are covering basically everything, once you factor in rent, utilities, food and other bills that’s not gonna leave her with much. She will not be able to save for longer-term purchases, trips, etc.
Take all of that with a grain of salt since I don’t know anything beyond what you put above, but it does not paint a very bright picture. I’d be much more concerned with the fact that she allowed it to get that bad.
The average debt after graduating from law school is around $160,000. Where I live, lawyer incomes at medium-large sized firms start at around $200k, and you typically have a position guaranteed at a firm after doing your summer associate program. It’s nothing short of baffling that she accumulated this much debt and will be making less than $100k in the best case scenario upon graduating. That speaks to her financial management and decision making much more than that massive number hanging over her (and possibly your) head.
220k in student loans is frankly, irresponsible. That it doesn’t get her a job making more than 75k just makes it silly. But nothing you can do about that now.
Let’s look at her plan to pay it off. She’ll make 75k, figure 20% taxes which leaves 60k, then she’s paying $2500 a month which is 30k, so that’s 30k left over. Out of that, she has to pay for medical insurance, car insurance, gas, and food, and try to put away something for retirement. If you are living together, you’ll be paying all the rent, and a lot of other things, too. No vacations either, unless you are paying.
Do not marry this woman. At best, live together and pretend you’re married. But you’ll be carrying her and paying for everything for a long time. This is very unequal, which puts you on a path towards resentment, and her feeling trapped by the arrangement. But wildly unequal is not a good recipe for a relationship.
This isn’t about being the AH or not. The situation is what it is: If you stay with her, you’ll be partnering with her to tackle her debt. If you’re ok with that because she’s worth being with long term, then great. If not, then also great. It’s your decision.
Better send your girl to the oil fields she’ll pay the debt off in 2yrs with some hard work and she’ll have a strong core afterwards too
Hard choise my friend
Your concerns are valid. Marriage is as much of an economic union as it is a promise to love and spend rest of one’s life with one’s partner. It doesn’t mean you value money over love, or that you don’t truly love her. Marriage is real life; it’s reality.
Your significant other (“S/O”) doesn’t understand the impact of her debt and finances on your future life together. Lack of awareness, really. And her choice to go $230k in debt – which isn’t including INTEREST that *can and will snowball* quickly – shows that her financial habits & financial goals aren’t in line with yours. It’s important to have similar spending habits. Even more for a partner to make sound financial choices, or it could cause future problems too.
Sunk cost fallacy. Almost 3 years relationship, yes, but you have a lifetime ahead of you. I’m worried for the resentment you may feel in the future.. when she contributes nothing to the household because virtually all her earnings go towards paying off her debt (again: principal amount and interest on top of that) while you single-handedly support the family. There are other women out there with the qualities she possesses. It may not feel that way.
The relationship can end despite you and your S/O loving one another. Finances are important! It’s one of those deal-breakers (such as: children or no children).
student loans are one thing. im worried about that credit card debt. the going back to school, while maybe not the best financial decision, is understandable as who expects a 20 year old to accurately pick what they actually want to do for a career. credit card debt points to some sketchier spending though
Good ideas here. Also, go as a couple to a financial counselor who will give you a professional perspective and can perhaps come up with some ways to make you more comfortable
Lots of people are saying that she can pay it off in 10 years if she works at it. The question you should ask (yourself and her), is what is the likelihood that she actually will.
Her life has been a series of poor financial decisions. What makes you think that anything has changed? Maybe it has, maybe not. That’s what you should be thinking about.
If her financial situation truly terrifies you, at minimum a serious conversation is needed.
I would recommend that at minimum you wait until she is gainfully employed and has spent at least a year paying the $2500/month before you consider moving forward with the relationship.
So I know at moments like these, we all tend to think big picture. You are thinking about your goals, you are thinking about long term plans, you have that huge number (220K is a lot, no matter how you spin it) in your head, and it’s easy to get overwhelmed and want to just run. But I would encourage you not to lose sight of the smaller picture: what will your day to day life look like with her (and her debt)? And is that day to day life a life that will make you happy enough to be worth compromising on some of the bigger stuff? Goals are great and all, but you actually *live* in the everyday. So I would encourage you to make a spreadsheet with your projected budget with her, and forecast various scenarios- what kind of housing will you be able to live in? How much will you have to spend on things like food, clothes, and vehicles? How much for entertainment and hobbies? Does any of that change if you tweak your timeline a bit (for example, putting off buying the house for a few more years)? How much is her debt likely to affect your life together on a daily basis? If you think through the details of your likely day to day scenarios, and you don’t think that you can live that way it’s totally understandable and not selfish.
The biggest for me is her total lack of awareness. She got herself into so much debt and her solution is to be an injectables nurse. Does she have any idea how hard it is to get into that? You basically have to pay thousands to take specialized classes and most places want you to have 3-5 years of experience. Everyone wants to do injectables because it’s easy and patients are nice.
Realistically your girlfriend is going to end up on the med surg floor, getting screamed at and assaulted by entitled patients, getting shit on by management, and then what is she going to do? Go back to school again and take out more debt?
I didn’t read them all but nobody mentioned i saw… 2500 a month for 10 years will not do a lot… interest is a real thing. If your 5-14% (and yikes thats some poor choices…) let’s say average of 7% annually. 7% of 220k is 15,400/12 $1283. Try $2,500 for 20 years. That’ll get you closer. Principal will be less than 1k for the first few years.
If you do marry her, file separate taxes so she can. Do income driven plan. May want to look at consolidation after uncle Joe gives his 10k away for free.
I dated a girl who was going to be a nurse and had about 110k in debt. We didn’t work out. The debt was a huge turnoff for me. How could someone make such terrible choices. She didn’t HAVE to party and go to school. She could’ve worked. That wasn’t the only reason, but it was a factor.
At the end of the day if you love her and she’s THE one. You won’t be in the poor house, but she clearly doesn’t have the same understanding and respect for money that you do which can cause an entirely different bag of issues if you get married.
Go with your gut. If you can’t get over this now you sure as shit will resent her for it in 5 years when she wants kids but financially it doesn’t make sense to do so. If you know she’s the one. Figure it out and move on. Don’t dwell. Make your choice.
I can’t believe she went to a private university then turned around to get a nursing degree. Her debt should be less than half that for a nursing degree at a public university. She should forget about injectables for now. No time for dreams. that can come later. Go straight to working first job that pays industry average then get a second nursing job on weekends to get that debt paid down. $2500 a month? That’s a mortgage. That’s rent. She won’t be able to even live on her own since 50% of her monthly income is her loan debt payment. I do not think that’s a deal breaker. I think she fell into the trap of going to a good university and just did not think this through. What I do worry about is does she have regrets? Does she understand it was not financially smart? I’d hate for her to be financially illiterate. And then you marry her.
You have to make the decision if you can live with her only contributing a small portion of her income jointly OR the next 5 years she gives 100% of her paycheck to pay the loans off faster. You support her. Or 75%, 25% personal expenses. Or whatever you both can work into a budget.
If you want a future it will affect you because of how much it eats into what she’ll live off of. She may make $75,000 but $30,000 of that is going to her loan payments so she really is only left with $45,000 minus deductions.
Your girlfriend is an idiot and financially stupid. Plus extremely immature for not seeing how her debt will effect you and any future you could have had together. Now had you said she is going to be in a field that pays highly like a doctor then her debt would be normal but for her to be really aiming low and honestly over estimating her pay is alarming.
> when she gets out she will be making around 75k to start and will pay $2,500 a month
perspective time: i make twice that and pay less for a mortgage. holy shit that’s a big nut for a damn decade. also, interest rates are going up
> “how will my finances create struggle/sacrifice for you?”
yeah, she should at least get this part
I’m not a big financial person but I feel like people aren’t factoring in the interest here. You say she’s $230k in debt and 80% are private loans with interest rates STARTING at 5%.
$230k x 80% x 0.05 = $9,200 per year minimum in interest alone
$2.5k x 12 = $30k total contribution per year
But that means she’s only ACTUALLY knocking down the debt to the tune of $20.8k per year at most. That’s going to take 11 years minimum. I mean, it’s not that much more than 10 but that’s also not accounting for compounding interest or the other debts she has or if she gets sick/pregnant/laid off/not hired/not in the field she wants/not payed the amount she thinks she will be/etc.
But she will be AT LEAST 35 years old before she really even starts to think about saving for retirement. That is so late. Part of retirement and investments is how they accumulate with compound interest. Basically what I’m saying is if you stay with her, you will be paying for nearly everything for the next 10 years at least (bills, mortgage/rent, car, vacations, medical, fun things, incidentals), plus her retirement, all because she racked up over $200k in schooling debt for a job that honestly doesn’t even pay that great. And she doesn’t see the issue. I would cut and run, man.
I think you and your partners are very different people. You clearly plan well, are disciplined, don’t like being in debt or owing people. You have great clarity on your career and life plan. On the other hand your partner is not clear on what she wants and has no problem accumulating debt. If you settle down together her problems will become yours, almost immediately. She may also spend more and more in the future, and you will have to work harder and harder to meet her spending needs. From personal experience, I would move on. She may become a burden to your life plans.
My friends dad who did a doctorate raked up a similar amount of debt, there was financial problems along the way and obviously the parents had kids. At nearly 60 years old he has just now paid off his student loans this year. With a high interest rate as well as trying to actually live, it will possibly take way more than 10 years to pay off that debt. Especially if she isn’t the best with money. I’d say if you want to stay with her, keep finances separate and live basically as a single person with a wife so you don’t resent her. She will most likely struggle on her income especially since it will be hard to get into the injectable industry, she will probably start as a regular nurse first. It’s not impossible to keep this relationship going, it’s whether you want to deal with it or not.
Wow. What are the exact interest rates? $230,000 at 8% over 10 years is $2791 per month. But at 10% it’s $3039.
This isn’t just a debt that will cripple you. It’s a partner with terrible financial sense who will cripple you for life. The fact that she doesn’t even see the problem is the real issue here.
Personally I wouldn’t have the will power to stay through something like this. I’d leave and start working on my assets. 220k that’s just waaaaay too much debt to worry about the stress would not be worth it
Everyone is talking about money, but this clearly bothers you and she just shrugs it off and ignores it. You came here to talk about it as she doesn’t take it seriously. Do you really want a lifetime partner who doesn’t care about something that bothers you?
If I look at it in a black or white kinda way, it sounds like you love her more than she loves you? I don’t know her though, she may do another 1009 things that do show that she really loves you…. But it kinda bothers me that she just ignores your feelings in this situation
You should end this relationship.
I thought at first this was just student loan debt, but from your comments she is financially irresponsible and you have supported her financially throughout your entire relationship.
You also mention in the comments you looked after your mother when she was ill and you were the oldest child who often had to look after siblings.
Listen, you’ve been taking care of people for a long time and you’re just repeating it now. It’s been ingrained in you on some level that taking care of others is your role in life.
It sounds cold blooded, but there’s no future with this woman. You marry someone financially irresponsible and your whole life will be affected.
This isn’t something you can fix. She’s so out of touch she doesn’t even think her loans are a problem.
You’ve worked hard to become debt free. I would try to find someone who tries to keep her debt down as well, otherwise you will most likely spend more time arguing about money issues.
My wife and I have been debt free for almost all of our 45 years together even though our salaries were nothing to brag about. She was a nurse and I was a software developer. We saved as much as possible by watching our spending–brought our own lunches to work, carpooled together, took affordable vacations, etc. Due to our frugal behaviour, when our son was in HS we all went on fab vacations around the world then pay for our son’s college and law school. We still go on nice vacations, buy new cars, etc. and we’ve recently setup college funds for our grandkids as well. All of this good stuff is because we treat money issues seriously.
You don’t have to stay in this relationship.