I have always thought that the concept of a Western civilization originated from geopolitics during the Cold War and never really viewed it through historical and cultural lens.
For those who do identify as part of a Western civilization, what would a border over modern nations look like? Would you consider former Eastern Bloc/Soviet countries and countries in the Americas to be Western?
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I don’t think the question of something or someone being Western is a question of individual identity. Rather, Western civilisation or culture or society or whatever we should call it—I find that the former is often associated with far-right politics—is the common heritage of developments that originated in the western world. So it doesn’t only apply to Europe, but to all areas of the world where European influence makes itself prominent and has in large parts pushed out the indigenous civilisation; often through murder and robbery, blood and fire, imperialism and colonialism.
Western Society is large defined by the philosophical traditions traced back to ancient Greece—though foreign influences on Greek philosophy shouldn’t be ignored—to Christianity—which originated in the Levantine provinces of the Roman Empire—and the enlightenment and post-enlightenment philosophies and theories.
What are the borders of Western Civilisation? Well, it is stretched across the entire world; even though many chauvinists might reject notions of countries such as Vietnam, Japan or Brazil being just as much heirs of Western Civilisation as Germany or France. Again, colonialism and imperialism spread, through often genocidal means, Western Civilisation to the edges of the globe. There is a reason we talk about Westernisation, i.e. ‘becoming Western’.
But I think it is important to note a difference between the global North—aka. the west, as a geographical and economical category—Western Civilisation, meaning the societal, political and cultural ‘inheritance’—and a country being Western. They are three different things.
So while Japan most definetely is a westernized country, and belongs to the West/Global North, it isn’t a western country.
To me, the “western world” includes all of Europe and all “European” civilisations (basically former colonies that thoroughly wiped out or at least heavily supressed the native culture) elsewhere like North and South America and Oceania.
Maybe a collective civilization in terms of certain achievements such as human rights, division of power, democracy, secularism instead of large influence of the church, certain freedom rights, rule of law…
Some countries also have a larger cultural heritage in architecture, literature, arts, philosophy, music and science but there also are quite notable differences which makes it harder to call it a collective civilization.
Overall I’d say there are certain beliefs and attitudes that are consensus but in the end the differences among the countries are quite big which is why I wouldn’t call it a collective of nations
A thought from somebody from the “borderline”.
I have always felt like an European/Westerner, even though in medieval times which were crucial to forming of these conceptions in Europe, Slavic countries were often perceived as heathens and pagans, due to not being “Roman”. For those of you outside Europe, this may sound weird, but historically, what is now Germany, France etc. were direct political descendants of Western Roman Empire. Northern tribes might have put an end to Romans proper, but their leaders mixed into Roman politics, received ranks, even became emperors themselves. The fall of Roman Empire wasn’t a matter of months or years, but whole centuries. As such, we had “The Holy Roman Empire of Germany”, claiming to be spiritual descendant of Rome, and not without some reason.
Sorry for long intro, but I felt it was necessary to explain some concepts that are engraved in “Western” mind. To the point: Slavs might have been “heathens”, but along with Christianity they adopted Western style of governing, concepts of culture, even Latin language for official purposes. My country was one of these. Still, through history it was often looked down upon and denied being “West” due to not having descended from “Romans” (still speaking of Middle Ages/Renaissance).
Right east of the borderline there were East Slavs, that would later become Kievan Rus and Russia proper (many years later). They adopted Christianity from Greece, with some important differences from Roman version, but not the political organisation. Most of it stayed close to what it was before and differed considerably from “West”. Religious and organisational differences laid foundation for East/West difference. This was carried to other parts of the world with colonisation. Look who had most of the colonies initially – Spain and Portugal, England came in later.
And regarding Spain and Portugal, these were fought back from Arabs, and in Western mindset came in naturally as belonging to West (Roman Empire again, stolen by “infidels” and reclaimed to Christian realm). Slavic countries did not have this, there was nothing to fight back, only conquest from zero, or even worse, accept as part of your cultural/religious sphere by political means and pacts, giving the fact that some relatively powerful pagan kingdoms have already appeared, and you just couldn’t raze them to the ground because your 5 brothers in the West and their allies fought wars against you and you were too weak for a mass conquest – taken from typical medieval prince experience 🙂 )
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I do not think “western” is even close to being well-enough-defined. Depending on the speaker it might include anything that isn’t China or SE Asia.
It’s one of those things that probably highly depends on the individual. I personally would never describe myself as “Western” and I have my issues with the fairly arbitrary nature of what is generally considered to be “Western” or not.
I don’t like the term western civilization but we’re definitely part of the western world alright. To me it’s basically most of Europe, the Americas, Japan, SK, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand along with some other countries there and there abouts
I think in the usual modern terminology that I agree with is “Western Civilisation” meaning most of Europe and most of the Anglo-sphere.
I think there is also a broader definition that includes countries that have adopted “western style” government and culture to some degree.
I’m sure there are tonnes of debates on the issue. Like do some “westernised” countries count? Can you restrict even further? What about Latin America? Is it just political or cultural too?
I would say whatever way you slice it Ireland and Britain are solidly right in the middle of any version of “Western Civilisation”.
That said I would sooner define myself as Irish-British/North European than Western.
People will not call themself western but most Dutch people definitely feel like they have more in common with other western countries than the rest of the world. Western and non-western are terms often used in official statistics here.
If you define it by how its actually used, then “Western” pretty much just means NATO and NATO alligned. For me, Western these days if you look at it through the lens of culture and geography and the like means European and European-esque (i.e. Australia, US, etc)
As someone from Western Europe I would say yes when asked, but I don’t really feel a connection otherwise.
I do feel a connection with other European nations, even those who I would not consider part of Western civilisation (e. g. baltic states)
On the one hand yes, but sometimes I personally feel like it means different things to different people. I’ve heard so often on Reddit or other (social) media where people describe things that only really happen in America while they say “the western world”, for example “in the western world they do/don’t do that…” when they actually just mean the USA and completely irrelevant or non-applicable to other western countries.
In general, there’s no feeling of home or community, beyond your family, if you’re lucky.
Definitely not in Russia, here we talk about Europe as if it’s some other place of which we’re not a part of like Russia is some island and definitely Russia isn’t the West politically right now.
Boh, i only know that italy had a good part on it, before middle ages and after. That lots of it originated in greece (to whom we give real importance) and the middle east. In the centuries, it moved to west (france, england, germany) and the US is a mix of it
To me “western” means Europe + North America but that is not a civilization. I think that all western Europe share a common civilization for sure, with eastern Europe too but it’s less strong and definitely not a collective civilization with USA/Canada.
No offense to Americans but over there their politics are totally different, the average mindset is very different, the values are totally different and even their opinion of what is a society is different.
*Western civilization* is a buzzword outsiders use. And sometimes people from the U.S., when they nonchalantly ignore how much Europe, even Western Europe, and even their closest ally in Europe —The UK— differs from the U.S. culturally. In Europe, we know how much different we are culturally, and how wacky they are in the U.S.
A key factor of civilisation is the law. [Behold.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Legal_systems_of_the_world_(en).png) I think you noticed something important: The UK their former colononies stick to a completely different system for private (contract) law. So even on that hard factor, “The West” disagrees, while e.g. China adopted a lot of principles from Continental European law.
Europe IS the western world.
How would Europeans not see themselves as part of the west? XD
Remember that the term west was born in the middle ages before america was discovered.
Europe west, Mesopotamia middle east, China far east.
I’d argue, we aren’t just part of a western culture we are the origin of western culture. Without Europe there is no US, no Australia etc..
Where does it start? Where does it end? It is a bit fluid. If one is a bit universalist it could include most of the world, in that the basic principles that define western societies are applicable everywhere (a universalist approach). Philosophy can be adapted on an individual level as well as on a broader level. That idea of western society would be less cultural but only include core ideas like individual liberty, rule of law, equality, human dignity ….
If one extends what is western to a cultural level it becomes less universal and inclusive but borders are still fluid to some extent. In the end it boils down to what extent you feel that historic separations (like the schisms into western and eastern churches) have created cultural differences that can be bridged or not. I’d argue, yes they can be bridged. Some argue that there is a hard cultural divide between orthodox and western christianity, that creates a clear cut West and East in Europe. I don’t believe that is true. It is fluid as well as the orthodox members of the EU show and the struggle in Ukraine shows painfully today. Also if it were a clear border, the elite in Russia wouldn’t be as paranoid as it is, fearing western influence and ideas. Russians are as much part of a common heritage, that deciding whether to be western or eastern can be a personal decission on very few ideas.
At the moment the West ends at the Russian and Belarussian border. The protests in Minsk last year have shown it is not a given that is had to be there, nor is it a given that there must be antagonism between Russia its western neighbours.
I think this came from West and East Roman Empire. More less it divides in the middle of Europe, hence I would say not every country in Europe is part of it.
The western civilization in early Roman Empire tells about a country which is more developed and and wealthy. In the modern time the Western world represents countries which are more developed and wealthy, and are influenced by the culture of West Europe.
Pin me the west pole on a map and then we will discuss
Yes, Europe + all colonies with mainly European culture. So Europe, North and South America, Oceania and northern and some of central Asia. In an extended sense also parts of Middle East, especially Turkey, because of historical reasons.
It depends on the country. Hungary is definitely not part of the West, nor did the West ever see it as such.
Depends on who you ask. “The West” is so vague that it doesn’t really tell you anything, and it works more as some buzzword. And smashing countries from across the world into one civilisation ignores the many different histories, politics, cultures, etc. these have to a point that this term becomes almost worthless.
Personally, I would only in the sense that Denmark was part of the western bloc during the cold war, but you wouldn’t ever hear me call myself a westerner. The broadest thing I would accept as an identity marker would be European, which I am
IMO there’s a difference between “Western Civilisation” and “the West”. Western Civilisation is all of Europe and all civilisations that sprung forth from Europe. “The West” to me is the collective of liberal democracies allied with/under the influence of America or the EU.