I try to avoid the serious brown-noser in the sales department but since we’re a small team and we sit so close to each other, we almost inevitably cross paths at some point during the work day. Listening to him spouting out recommendations and ideas to clients (for which he has no technical knowledge of) puts us in an awkward position as the production/technical team, since he over-promises and our team end up having to (under)-deliver.
I’ve been at loggerheads with him before in the past (and we’ve worked around it) but he seems to have an audacity about him. Today I caught him talking to the general manager about “the marketing team supports sales team, not the other way around,” and even overheard him claiming the sales team “is the most important team in the company” (Overlooking the matter of the production team who actually \*do\* the work). He’s not a team player and he cozies up to the general manager (i.e. the boss’ wife) day-in, day-out. I don’t know whether to keep my head down or to call him out, since everything is within earshot of me – and some of his complaints have been \*very\* disregarding of matter of fact particularly with my team.
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You deal with them by minding your own business and doing your job.
Working with people you don’t like is part of work.
If he was talking bad about you personally to a manager this is one thing but it sounds like his crime is mostly just annoying you.
In sales, the only thing that really matters is making sales. So if he’s hitting his numbers my guess is that management will side with the dude bringing in the money.
You’re young and your perspective is a bit scewed imo. He is absolutely right and you don’t yet realize it. I’m a business owner built from just me and my partner to now 6, going on 8, employees so my thoughts going through the process and trying to grow a million+ dollar firm.
Marketing pushes people to sales.
Sales gets people to buy
Billingreceivables get payment
Payment let’s purchasing get materials and goods
Production uses materials and goods to give product
Marketing pushes products to push people to sales…..repeat
At the end of the day how good you are or how hard you work is not worth much. For the business the question is how can I get the job done with the least amount of money spent, and second who is making me money?
Your coworker is marketing himself and making himself known. He’s hyping his accomplishments up and highlighting the money he brings to the business. He makes back his salary plus profit to the firm so it doesn’t cost anything to the firm to have him around ! That’s great marketing and is true in some ways. Further, he’s putting his name in people’s mind, a go getter or someone willing to take on more. At the end of the day it’s who KNOWS YOU that will advance you in your career.
How good you are at your job or how hard you work is really meaningless if nobody knows who you are or how you beneifit the company. Sure you’ll get annual review and some boost but only bc the annual review reminds people you’re there. Plus as an owner and wearing the manager hat I’m happy to keep you in place if your producing at your level but not making it known , and often, you want more or to be challenged. For me I get the most benefit keeping you as long as I can if you never say anything bc I don’t need to promote you or give more than the 5% annual increase , why should I or how would I know if you “keep your head down”. I’m not stupid, I know you want more but why I would I give it to a quiet employee over the guy marketing himself to me…who is showing the initiative? Who will push himself or the people under him to produce close to what’s promised ?
So Make yourself known! When you say someone is “brown-nosing” all I hear is you trying to tear another down to your level so you don’t have to keep up. Life isn’t fair and neither is the work place. Want to put your coworker in his place then beat him at his game, find a better way to market yourself. Give your boss and others something to contrast your coworker against. Otherwise keep your head down and stagnate till you quit. As the boss owner I know there are hundreds just like that willing to fill the spot for another 12-24 months .
As someone who has worked on the production, sales, and marketing sides… He’s right. For the company, sales is the most important thing and likely the most stressful.
Now, if what he’s selling isn’t possible, that’s a different issue. It sounds like it’s possible but pushing the production department which from a business end is perfectly fine so long as it’s sustainable.
At the end of the day, sales brings in the money. Money is the lifeblood of the company.
Realize its not high school and “brown nosing” isn’t a thing. Everyone tries to show themselves in the best light and it kinda sounds like you’re the one with the bad attitude. Just do your job well and promote yourself when you can.
Sales people aren’t team-players. They work and are paid individually. He’s definitely not the first person say “sales is the most important”. Its treated like conventional wisdom. From an accounting standpoint, sales is literally the “first line” of profits.
Seems like you asked the wrong subreddit since everyone is siding with that asshole. I had a similar experience in my previous job. I would just recommend to try and ignore/avoid him. He wasn’t the main reason I ended up leaving, but as soon as I got a better job offer I took it. Maybe find a job in a bigger company where you don’t have to deal much with sales. Worked for me.
I’ll tell you a story from my own personal experience from my younger days, I hope it offers some perspective.
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A few years ago, I worked in law enforcement, and I had a shift partner who I could not stand. She was lazy and manipulative. I did two people’s work whilst she did sweet FA. She was also very attractive, which helps a lot if you are a female in law enforcement. Because she was fucking my boss’s best friend, nothing ever got done about it. I eventually left the job and got another role at a law enforcement organisation.
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One year later, she follows me to my new role, and I am not amused. Before she arrived, I paved the way and warned others ‘what she was really like’. When she arrived, everyone recognised that she was quite attractive and immediately just assumed I was jealous. It did not help my professional credibility.
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A similar thing also happened to me many years later when I got a promotion over someone else, who thought he was nailed on for the job. He made it his purpose to ‘warn’ everyone how bad I would be at the job. Do you know who came out of it looking bad? Not me.
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My point is: you just do you. If hes as bad as you say he is, the truth will come out in time anyway. That way, you’ll have maintained professionalism. Being perceived as engaging in a character assassination at work will only make you look like the bad guy.
Hi,
I’d like to give you a thoughtful response from a person who is now in leadership, but also some thoughts from when I was an individual contributor.
Firstly, you should know that every manager on your floor — all of them — can universally recognize brown nosing, and it matters far less than you (or the brown-noser) think it does. False self-promotion annoys me but it ultimately doesn’t matter. I judge people on the results they deliver. I may choose to coach this employee on their soft skills and interpersonal relationships, but that is bonus material.
Secondly, as an individual contributor I can very confidently tell you that your best response is to not be at loggerheads with him. Avoid him if you must, but you will win accolades by always being the bigger person.
Thirdly, the question of what team “leads” the company needs to be decided — or squashed — by your executive leadership. A sales company has a certain kind of culture. A product company has another. A tech company has yet another. Stay away from department politics; no good can come of that.
Sounds like a real ligitiate HR issue, if hes promising stuff you as technical KNOW are not possible, thats company damaging and shoudl be brought to someone in charge.
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NOW
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If they dont like hearing about it then you have more concern for that company than the company does, LEAVE. Ive actually used that as a reason why confused the whole of HR for a few months as they could see i was right. i still left.
The more time you spend worrying about his work, the less time you’re spending perfecting your craft or standing out with your own performance.
Others have good advice here. At a company scrum/meeting, away from customers, ask him his ideas on implementation. He promises a pot of gold, say “great! I’d love to get your ideas on how to do this at the price discussed, our gold only comes in bottles of liquor.” Don’t demand details, just the broad strokes. IMO marketing and sales have been overlapping duties, and sales should always know that either a product is ready to ship, or they should know the big pieces that are needed for implementation so that they don’t have to come back to the customer and walk back their talk. In the end, a smarter salesman is a better salesman.
Suck their dick