My husband and I (married 4 years) have an ongoing issue with differences in what things we want to try to agree on around the house.
Last night is a good example. We were getting ready for dinner and my (33F) husband (40M) remarked on the fact that the paper napkins in the bag were jumbled. I told him that they’d all fallen out last time I took them out — and added offhandedly that I’d thrown the ones away that had fallen on the bottom (like 5 napkins) but managed to rescue the rest (I didn’t want him to think they were all dirty). He seemed surprised and repeated me to confirm that I’d thrown the few that fell directly on the floor away and I said yes and explained, “I didn’t want a guest to end up using a dirty napkin even if it doesn’t look dirty”. He then told me he didn’t think we needed to throw out napkins just because they touched the floor, and asked would I have thrown out the entire package if they’d all fallen on the floor. I said something like, yeah, I guess maybe not but I just made a decision in the moment. After that he kept pushing on it and acting like it was a ridiculous thing to do and I started getting annoyed, so I said (as gently as I could), “Hey babe, I get that we don’t want to be wasteful, but I’ve had kind of a hard day and I don’t really wanna keep talking about the napkins, okay?” Realizing that I was annoyed, he then started to get mad and said I was “being evasive” and “making a big deal out of it” and “why can’t you just agree that we shouldn’t throw them out next time?”
Long story short, it spiraled into an argument, mostly because we have this same disagreement pretty often — not about napkins, but about whether it’s okay for me to ask to cut this kind of conversation short.
My husband thinks “we should be able to discuss” the best way to do anything in the household, however minor (even if we both agree it’s minor– which of course isn’t always the case and if not, that’s a different situation).
The first issue with this, for me, is just that *I usually don’t want to:* it doesn’t interest me; I don’t think there’s any benefit to hashing it out when the stakes are slim to none; and I have ADHD and often struggle with decision making in the first place, so quibbling over how/why/how well I made small past decisions (like examining the quality of my answer to, “why didn’t you use the other pan to cook the eggs” etc) does NOT help me confidently make bigger, more important decisions.
HOWEVER, he \*does\* want to discuss it and I have tried to respect that by engaging many times with this before in good faith — until the *second* issue became obvious, which is that:
(a) As far as I can tell, there’s no situation where he’ll agree to disagree once we’ve started — he sees the disagreement as a “problem” that I’m then asking to leave unsolved, which drives him nuts
and (b) as such — and because I have both less skill at and less interest in defending my position — these conversations always result ieither in me agreeing he’s “right” and to do the thing differently, or us having a big fight.
After many such conversations ended this way, I often try to head them off — which he says feels like I’m “dismissing him” and makes him feel the need to press to see why I “refuse to have the conversation”. When I have tried to tell him this dynamic makes me feel scrutinized and/or even kind of controlled, he’s countered that by saying it “isn’t fair if \[he\] can’t bring things up that bother him.” If I tell him the issue isn’t him bringing it up, but what happens after, he insists that it’s my “reaction” to a “simple conversation” that’s the problem.
Essentially (although he has not put it this way) my husband’s position is that if I were willing/able to calmly and lightheartedly discuss how and why I made these decisions when he asks — and for however long/at whatever depth it takes for us to agree about how it should be done in the future — that would solve the problem. And in his view that isn’t him getting what he wants, but the way that a functioning relationship would handle this. Even if I were capable of that (idk) I don’t know that I think it’s correct. Would you expect your partner to be willing to have this kind of conversation with you, and/or do you expect to be able to agree with your partner about stuff like this? Is there something I could be doing differently to make him feel more heard and understood? Is there a better way I can ask for/describe why I don’t want to go into it?
33 comments
>does NOT help me
For the record – I don’t think this would help *anyone* …
>which drives him nuts
And these conversations drive you nuts.
It’s not a fucking decisions. You threw some fucking napkins away. you used a different pan. You put your shoes toe side out instead of heel side out. Like WTF is his actual problem.
I am sorry but your husband is a nitpicking asshole.
Reading this post made me want to punch him in the face. He needs to chill – this shit isn’t serious – he’s being absolutely ridiculous.
***EDIT:***
*Hubby:* Hey babe. Next time maybe don’t throw the napkins away?
*Wife:* Sure. I just didn’t want guests feeling like they got dirty napkins.
*Hubby:* Gotcha. Maybe next time throw them on the counter or something? I hate to waste them when we know the floor isn’t dirty.
*Wife:* No problem.
How hard is that kind of interaction? If he’s THAT bothered by this – there’s way to talk to your partner that isn’t **harassing** (continuing the conversation) **controlling** (making sure you do it HIS way) **patronizing** (like you have no clue what you’re doing) and **one-sided** (it has to be his way, you’re wrong, no give).
>always result either in me agreeing he’s “right” and to do the thing differently
Its not about the napkins
You got yourself a control freak
Example: What fucking business is it of mine what pan you use to cook eggs with
As long as you’re not one of those god awful kitchen nightmares that use 15 spoons and 5 dishes to make a bowl of soup, then leave the washing up for your partner.
Who cares, your cleaning them up anyway
He doesn’t want to ‘discuss’ anything, he wants to tell you how to do f’ing everything. Jackass needs a wake-up call
almost seems like he’s nitpicking on purpose to provoke fights.
for example, it’s not about the thing he’s angry about. it’s about his actions and how he communicates himself. the thing is just his excuse to do it. for controlling people, nitpicking and provoking is a very common strategy.
and on that same note, it’s not about the “best way to do things”, it’s about “his way to do it”. if he won’t listen to anything you say, he’s not actually after a discussion. he’s after an opportunity to tell, not discuss.
Everytime he starts something like this – Your reply is :
Next time you can show me why you think your way is better, until then we are not discussing this further. Then you either “forget” about it, or you make him do it. When he does show you, you go hmmmmm – not sure I get it you will just have to show me again next time. This is especially effective with cleaning, by the way.
Either he takes over the chore to do it how he wants, or he will learn to be quiet. It may take a dozen or so tasks, repeats on this depending how fast he learns.
Alternate reply when he starts nitpicking – “That’s wonderful, honeybear – I am so glad you want to do this (whatever he is nitpicking aobut) from now on.”
> Essentially (although he has not put it this way) my husband’s position is that if I were willing/able to calmly and lightheartedly discuss how and why I made these decisions when he asks — and for however long/at whatever depth it takes for us to agree about how it should be done in the future — that would solve the problem.
Nah, this is a trap. I suspect the discussion will always continue until you agree with him, regardless of how “calm and lighthearted” you keep your tone.
I would dig into this issue: Is it reasonable for there to be an Empirically Best way to handle every single thing? Is there room for “That works for you, and I respect it. I make a different choice?” There needs to be.
Because it sounds like that’s really the issue — your husband wants you to think like him, all the time, and you’re right, that’s about control. It may not be malicious, but it’s also not a reasonable expectation.
I had an ex with a similar attitude. If I didn’t approach things the same way he did (which was the Empirically Correct way), then I was irresponsible and dangerous. This meant he couldn’t “trust” me to be a functional adult, and thus had to be in complete control of our lives. But not every issue escalates to that level. Sometimes, people just handle things differently, and that’s OK! Both are valid! It’s not putting the family unit in danger if you have different opinions on napkins.
(And as an aside, it’s so insane that “You shouldn’t throw away napkins that fell on the floor” is something your husband wants to go to bat over.)
Is this really someone you want to spend the rest of your life with? Imagine not having to argue over or justify every little decision you make… is staying with this man really worth it?
I’m sorry, this sounds absolutely exhausting. It sounds like your husband fixates on little things AND thinks he always knows better than you (oddly paternal/patriarchal), so when he doesn’t approve of an action you’ve taken, he browbeats and exhausts you until you finally give in all while disguising it as “discussion.” But discussion takes two people. This is just one man lecturing his wife like she’s a slow-witted child. If you can, I’d try couples therapy.
I have no advice but this was exhausting to read. The problem isn’t that you can’t have a light-hearted discussion, the problem is that he needs to always be right and doesn’t know when to quit. I’d honestly stop involving him in there minor decisions and if he asks just stick to one answer. Threw the napkins away, didn’t want anyone to use napkins from the floor.
From reading this it seems the issue is that he doesn’t think the conversation/argument is over until you agree with him. How often does he agree that you are right? Does he let it go then?
There are things you don’t care about. Some will need to be considered because even though you don’t care about it you care about him and he cares about it, so by proxy you will care. Does he do the same?
I see how this would be stressful and it seems the communication you have isn’t working for either of you. This might be a good time to get a couples therapist to go over communication techniques and the issues behind the little things like the napkins. Hope this helps.
Way back in the day, I dated and was engaged to a man who wanted to dissect everything to death. He also wanted to create issues to constantly be discussed.
It was exhausting.
Yea… I laughed at the thread the other day regarding storing pans in the oven vs not. I was a pans in the oven person and my husband was not. Drove him effing bonkers to have hot 400• pans that suddenly needed to be put somewhere. That’s a “we need to come to an agreement so we don’t burn the damn house down.” Not you threw away some disposable napkins.
My adhd means I get distracted mid-task often. My husband would rather me work on helping and doing a lot and if he has to help finish several tasks- oh well. I cannot even fathom living with your husband.
My situation is a bit different than yours but your post struck a cord with me.
My ex was someone who liked to argue about anything and everything. Like you, I was less skilled at arguing my side and I simply didn’t care enough to put in the effort. It got to the point that we had spent 3 hours arguing about paprika in the middle of the night.
Ive come to realise that it was always about him being right, even if he says it wasn’t. There was no such thing as “agree to disagree”. He would keep arguing and say things like “do you really think X? Do you not see why that’s wrong?” I had even started to just agree with whatever he said because it was easier, except that would just start a whole second argument about how he felt I was agreeing just to placate him. There was no winning for me.
We tried therapy, which I would suggest as a first step for you. The therapist gave us advice on how to communicate with each other better. It didn’t work for us because he didn’t want to continue after one session.
I don’t know anything about your relationship but I just wanted to put into your mind – if this doesn’t change, are you prepared to live with it for the rest of your life? What if it gets worse, would you be able to handle that?
Maybe start calling him everytime you have to make a decision, see if he finds a new level of nuts. Cite “it’s better to discuss it now, before it gets blown out of proportion, right?”
Malicious compliance.
He’s super controlling and not very nice to you
This sounds exhausting.
“Tell me why you threw 5 napkins away” “they were dirty” “no that’s wrong why did you do that”
“Why did cook eggs in the little pan vs the big pan” “because I wanted to” “no that’s wrong you don’t do that again”
How can anyone live like that. Your husband is a control freak. He’s trying to pick fights and knock you down to “prove” he’s “right” and you’re “wrong” These are conversations and “problems” that don’t need to happen.
“Babe I won’t be having these “conversations” with you about little tiny things about the “household”. We have other things to do and this is not a good use of our time. Please trust me to these minor things my way and you can do things your way. They are inconsequential in the grand scheme of life and there is no reason to get in to arguments about them.”
He is insane and I might have hit him with the frying pan. Not everything requires a discussion.
What!!! This is absolutely crazy. I would put my foot down about these tiny, nitpicky details. I have never ever even wondered once what my husband would do if some napkins fell on the floor and we would never dream of telling each other what we should do in that situation. I’m really sorry!!
Your husband sounds like a “mister right.” He feels a compulsion to “correct” you. It’s super annoying. If your relationship is otherwise great and this isn’t a deal breaker here’s my advice:
Agree with him. Give him a grey rock “okay. Yeah. Sure thing. Got it” and then continue to do whatever tf you want. He *enjoys* the part where he gets to “correct” you whether he realizes it or not. So take the wind out his sails and just agree. Skip the conversation.
My husband sometimes says really crazy stuff that just isn’t true. Made up statistics, bad science, pseudo psychology, etc. I used to dump all kinds of energy into it. Questioning where he heard it and arguing with him until we were both angry. Then something just clicked and one day I just said, “oh really? I didn’t know that.” And the conversation ended. It was a breakthrough! I’ve successfully used this technique many times since.
If it’s not worth the argument and you want the conversation over, just let him say whatever stupid thing he has to say, blandly agree, and move on.
The problem here is you husband does not want to discuss – he wants to talk at you until you capitulate and go along with whatever he says. He won’t drop it until his viewpoint is the one accepted by both of you. That’s not discussion. That’s control. If this was discussion it could be about important, big things. Fighting with you endlessly so you’ll echo his meaningless views on a few paper napkins is about control.
He just wants you to agree with whatever he says. And that is all he is ever going to go for. If you don’t want to do that, there’s going to be friction. He won’t accept it, but you need to say you both disagree and terminate the discussion. You are not required to respond to him after you’ve said you’re done. And fighting over a few paper napkins is stupid.
Tell him to stop pretending that he wants a healthy discussion. This is extremely unhealthy.
Healthy couples often do things slightly differently from each other around the house, and they let things roll off their back and recognize that different doesn’t mean better or worse. He is pretending to want a discussion, but it’s not really a discussion if there is only one acceptable result, and he will not stop until he gets that result or you present a complete argument that convinces him. How ridiculous.
That’s why you feel exhausted by it, because it really is an attack on your way of doing things. My husband does things all kinds of ways that drive me nuts but you pick your battles.
What if you tell him that discussing every little detail of the household seems like a boring waste of time to you, and you disagree with him that this is important. How would he react if you calmly and lightheartedly told him that you won’t be agreeing with him in the future on pointless stupid things, just because he endlessly harasses you to? And that you are as entitled to your opinion as he is to his, but that doesn’t mean that you have to agree with him. In fact, why doesn’t he try agreeing with you for a change? Don’t back down, see how he takes it, and decide if this is what you want for your life.
Some people like to argue. They can’t even wait for you to finish speaking to hold back their joy at jumping in to tell you why you are wrong. Seems like you married one of those people. Ask him “is this the hill you want to die on? Napkins?” And if the answer is yes, well, you have a good idea of what the rest of your life will be like with this man.
Please please please don’t have kids with this exhausting man. As a matter of fact I would suggest divorce. This isn’t going to get any better
I’m so exhausted after reading this post that I have to go to bed. I couldn’t put up with this for a week let alone 4 years.
Oh man. I have a feeling you aren’t really wanting to post solely about this subject. I have a feeling the issues run much deeper. If I’m right, life is way too short to deal with this kind of thing. You can’t compromise with someone who starts at the end of the earth. You will just end up in hell.
If this is the only issue, well, ok. In that case, I’d normally say pick your battles. But given the full story, I’d suggest you dig in. It seems like more of a power play on his end, and while it does almost no good to engage in power plays, it also does no good to get run over. You will just continually find yourself catering to his needs.
But really, I would bet the farm that the issue is deeper. And life is too short.
I am good at arguing and debating, and usually, ‘winning’ whatever there is to be won. The reason for that is not because I have the knowledge and the verbal skills to apply them, even though I do. It’s because I am very good at controlling my own emotions, as well as reading the other person’s, and I am relentless. I developed these skills for self-preservation and I don’t use them nowadays, but I used to.
So here’s my view of your situation: you can’t win this because you two have different goals. Yours is to have a normal, logical interaction, his is to convert you to the alternate reality he’s living in. You cannot get through to him by using logic, because his worldview is informed by a skewed sense of self he doesn’t even understand. So don’t even try it. Just shut it down immediately. Instead of explaining yourself, just frame it as something you wanted to do. Look him firmly in the eye while you do it. And stop there. Never ever explain yourself.
Also, you can only ‘win’ against somebody like that if you either have or can convincingly fake a very strong spine. Even so, a prolonged exposure to such people will fuck you up so beware.
Does he think your time is worthless? Because discussing a couple of napkins that are cents each over 30 minutes or more… really? Your time is worth cents to him? Plus the anxiety of him creating problems out of thin air.
I think he is simple making up problems to argue. Don’t argue. Just say “I’m not going to argue about this.” Don’t respond.
ADHD doesn’t have anything to do with this! Your husband is arguing over stupid stuff like pans. Is he doesn’t like how you do stuff, he can do it himself.
Wow, this brings up so many memories of my abusive ex. It was so hard to describe after I got out because we never fought about anything that was important… it was stupid little crap like that which would escalate because the only way to have us be ok was for me to think and feel exactly the way he did. And the more I pushed back, the more “I” was causing problems, and the worse the fights would get. Until eventually it was screaming and name calling and pushing. It’s not about the napkins, but you know that. I didn’t see anyone recommend it but if you like reading maybe check out Why Does He Do That? There’s a free pdf online. Not sure I have good advice because it’s his issue, not yours, but if he can’t recognize it there’s not a lot that can be done…
I have a coworker kinda like this and I hate it. We‘re bartenders, and most everyone I‘ve ever worked with has understood that everyone works a little different, and at the end of the day as long as standards are being met and guests are happy it doesn’t matter because the job is getting done.
If I do anything differently than how she would have done it it’s a big deal. She can’t stop questioning WHY I would do it that way. It’s exhausting to deal with at work and I literally can’t imagine what it would be like to live with in my personal life.
You guys are partners. You‘re working together to build the life you want. You have individual personalities and are going to do things differently. It does not sound like he wants an honest discussion if for him it always ends in him getting his way. It sounds like he wants control over your actions (and possibly to put you in a position where you‘re always defensive/apologetic depending on how often this goes on).
If he’s picking fights over petty things like a few spilled napkins (said as someone who was in a relationship where I had to walk on eggshells for years, this sounds HORRIBLE) I would set a firm boundary that you won’t have these kind of discussions with him anymore. That‘s not you being unreasonable. He’s not your boss and even if he was this kind of micromanagement would be unacceptable. If he can’t respect your boundary you‘ll have to decide what the next step is. I don’t think there’s any better/more understanding version of you that’s going to fix his behavior.
Your husband sounds exhausting and like a bully. He cares more about being right than solving a problem.
His view is not functional or sustainable. If anything it just pushes the other person to start shutting down.
Stopped reading half way through when he said ‘why can’t you just agree not to throw them out next time?’ THATS what he really wants. He doesn’t want a discussion, he wasn’t to be RIGHT. he wants you to do things the way he wants them done and he’ll harass and nag and argue until you give in and he gets his way. THATS problem here. Not the napkins. He’s a control freak
A young couple once asked our spiritual leader who was correct in the way they were doing the laundry. The response was “whom ever is doing the task gets to decide in what method it is done.” Makes perfect sense to me.