So, a little context for the beginning:
We have been together for 5 years. Last January, two months short of our anniversary I told him I would like to get married.
He was reluctant at first, but he proposed in October. It was organized in a surpisingly romantic way for him. He kneeled, opened the ring box and asked if I would like to hike, sail (insert an activity we do) with him a little more, like… For the rest of our lives.
We have been together for 5 years, with a 7 months break in 2018/19 when we broke up. We have been living together since the beginning – he just started staying at my place (a rented room), bringing his stuff, and it stayed this way. For the past year we have been living in an apartment he bought with a mortgage.
In the past month I began to push to start organizing the wedding. I knew I would probably do the most of the organizing, but I was okay with it. He was not really responsive. I asked him “You are dragging your feet, do you want to get married at all”. He said “Not really”. The conversation ended with “I hope it’s just a temporary crisis, because proposing a marriage and then backing out would be a shitty thing to do”.
Then last weekend on our way to short vacation, I brought up this topic again. Now, one thing you have to know, is that in our country you can get married in two ways:
1. In the church, signing the civil documents after the ceremony
2. At the civil registrar office if you are not religious
Sometimes when people choose #2 they also go for a humanistic wedding ceremony, if they want something more, well, ceremonial.
So when we talked, my fiance said that he proposed with an intention od having the humanistic ceremony only – not legally binding one. I was shocked.
First of all, because it seems unsincere, as he never openly stated he doesn’t want to be legally married.
Second, because humanistic weddings are ALWAYS an addition to a civil ceremony, without going to the registrar office is just a theater. It literally doesn’t happen ever that people have just a humanistic ceremony.
Third, because we wanted a pre-nuptial agreement anyway, so it’s not that he risks much in case of a divorce. And it was my idea.
He says he doesn’t want some civil officer to come and regulate what’s between us. May I add, that he has nothing against civil officers regulating other aspects of his life, he is not an anarchist, he pays taxes, votes in elections, so I call it BS.
In two weeks I’m going abroad for work for a month. I hated it, but I gave him an ultimatum – once I’m back, I want to have his decision and we have two options only: either we get properly, legally married or we end this relationship.
I am shattered and lost. Is there something else I can or should do? Get some psychological help? Go for couples therapy? Am I being manipulated? Is it gaslighting? Should I move out from his place now?
EDIT:
I came back home today and now he wants an official wedding.
So in the past week he wanted:
– No marriage at all
– Non-official marriage
– Official marriage
– Eternal engagement.
I told him not to rush with the decision and I want the answer by the time I’m back from abroad so he still has 6 weeks to go. And I need to think about it as well, because marriage is like consensual sex – you need an enthusiasic ‘yes’.
46 comments
Well, this fuck up is on you. You should have discussed marriage as soon as relationship got serious, not waited for 5 years and then spring an ultimatum on him because he doesn’t want to get married. You also never asked for his opinion and wishes, you just told him you want to get married and expected him to want it as well.
He tried to do it in a way he would be comfortable as well doing it, but you shut down his attempts to compromise. You seem to not care about what he wants at all.
You present him with an ultimatum, yet you worry he is manipulating you? We don’t negotiate with emotional terrorists, just break up.
If you do still want to marry him, then I say see what happens when you return. This might not be fixable though. Hard to tell with the info we have.
It sounds like he didn’t want to propose and only did it because you gave an ultimatum, and now the truth about how he feels has come out . Do you really want to be with somebody you have to force to propose to you .
I am sorry you wasted 5 years of your life but I am not sure you will be happy if you do get married because he seems to be doing it only because you are making him
Tooo much pressure, relax for fuck sake he probably loves you but he has seen the way your acting about getting married and it’s pushing him him away, men like peace and the way you’re dealing with things is not giving him any peace
You are pressuring him into doing something he clearly isn’t ready for or has no interest in doing. I think this is a miscalculation on your part. If he agrees to your ultimatum then the whole rest of your marriage will be built on an unstable foundation.
He should have made it clear that he doesn’t want legal marriage.(why does he not want this?)
But you should also value his feelings and wishes. Marriage isn’t something you just do one day, you have to actively want it. And he obviously doesn’t want it while you are totally ignoring this.
If your fiancé doesn’t want to marry you, he’s your boyfriend—not your fiancé. Seeing as you reasonably want a marriage, it’s probably time to call it quits on the relationship.
He doesn’t want to be married. And he’s not going to let you force him. He will try to call your bluff since you didn’t do it before he proposed of when he told you he didn’t want to be married. He thinks you’re going to just stick around and deal with the situation. Take control and end it with this man before you waste any more time. I did this and wasted all of my 20s on a man who would never marry me. I have ultimatums and he still wouldn’t and my stupid ass stuck around anyway. I finally ended it because he cut off all intimacy so we were more like roommate friends than a couple. But I regret sticking around that long for nothing.
End it and start working on moving on.
Wanting marriage isn’t making you an evil controlling pressuring person like some other commenters are making you out to be.
You stated what you wanted. He went out of his way to seemingly go along with this some time later. Now, when it’s time to actually follow thru on it, he’s backing out. It’s been 5 months since you got engaged. Plenty of time to begin planning it without rushing right away. He’s showing and telling you he doesn’t want marriage. You do. The answer is to accept that and respect yourself and what you want. This relationship isn’t going to give you what you want. You should be with someone who after 5 years is excited to marry you.
Listen to what he’s saying. He doesn’t want to get married. You can’t get married when one person wants to and the other doesn’t want to. The person who doesn’t wins by default. I learned this the hard way. Cut your losses and walk away. Your ultimatum will not work.
I know how bitter this is. I’m sorry.
Darling, he doesn’t want to marry you. Stop wasting your time. You know the benefits of marriage, and you want them, and the protection that matrimony offers. He got comfortable and doesn’t want to change. Just leave. You are young beautiful and smart. You’ll find someone who wants what you want.
The teens on here getting on your back do not understand what marriage truly is, more than a mere piece of paper.
Please leave. Don’t tell him anything, beyond the fact that you’re incompatible. Don’t argue. Just end it. If you tell him, he’ll get serious for a little while; then he’ll start trying to sabotage the relationship so YOU will end it. Save yourself the immaturity and heartache. Leave now.
You’re worth more than being a mere lifetime gf, or a baby mama.
Were you planning on having kids? Or buying property together? Cause all of that is usually better done under a legal marriage.
This is already clearly a shifty man you don’t want to marry unless you like messy divorces. Don’t do this. He sucks. I had an eerily similar situation, I did actually marry the idiot and then his behavior and mistreatment got 10 times worse because he truly felt he had a legal claim to me. When we split up he screamed at me that I had “pushed him into marriage” ahh no buddy we agreed to it together and I had to drag your ass through a planning process while you scrolled on your phone but you chose this. Don’t be stupid like me, get out now. You deserve better.
If marriage is a must for you then this is not the relationship you need to be in. Enough of your time was wasted.
I would just ask yourself these questions:
1. Do I want to marry if it isn’t with him?
2. Do I want to marry? If so, it’s clearly not going to be with him.
3. If I stay, will I resent this in the future?
If marriage is “just a piece of paper” and “No big deal”, he should have no trouble signing that piece of paper if he truly loved and cared about you, right? But marriage is more than that. It’s a committment, and one he really doesn’t appear to want to make. OP, you truly deserve better than to give all of yourself, heart and soul, to a man who takes and takes from you, then only gives you what he wants you to have in return. Think about it. Please love yourself enough to walk away from this person.
Dump him, don’t make my mistake of going all in and wasting almost 2 decades on a loser.
Usually ultimatums are not good for a relationship. They put pressure an resentment on the affected side.
You both seem to hv different needs from this relationship. Hopefully it works out for u.
Girl you know you need to end it with him.
He just wants the benefits of having a woman around him.
He already said that he doesn’t want to marry you. If he now changes his mind because of an ultimatum… how long will this marriage last? Or what will he do to drag it along futher? Back out last minute? Fake emergency? He even proposed to you, a fake propose to make you stay. Maybe think back if he did this before.
It would be one think if he would be truthful to you from the beginning. Saying that you can be together without a marriage, but no, he chosed another way. And that is what i find totally shitty.
Its up to you if you want to give him this chance, but in my opinion, this isn’t going to work out at all. Even if he says he will legally marry you when you come back, I imagine he would do so with a lot of resentment and potential regret, and I can’t see this ending in a happy, loving, and working marriage. You both want different commitments out of life, and I think it would be better to stop prolonging this, but of course its up to you whether you’ll still extend him this ultimatum/chance.
Have you heard of the new Netflix show – The Ultimatum? I’ll recommend giving it a watch during the month you are away. Spoiler alert: giving someone an ultimatum is not the best way to start a marriage.
He’s told you with his words and shown you with his actions that he does not want to marry you.
you want to get married. he wants to stay together but not get married, possibly with a wedding-shaped-but-legally-meaningless commitment ceremony.
there isn’t really a middle ground compromise here. the 2 of you can do what you want (get married), do what he wants (stay unmarried), or you can do what neither of you wants (break up). you’ve vetoed “stay unmarried”, so I think you just need to stick to that veto unless you significantly change your mind.
I don’t think it’s intentional gaslighting/manipulation. I think he loves you and wants to do things to make you happy, but has issues with getting married for some reason. I think he probably feels trapped between “I love this peron” and “we have this fundamental long term incompatibility”. he’s scared, but he needs to put his big boy pants on and stop trying to have it both ways.
How sure are you that he’s not already married?
He’s told you what he wants – to live together without being married. Lots of people do it for a lifetime with one partner. Just because you don’t like his answer doesn’t mean he hasn’t said it repeatedly.
If it’s not what you want, you get to leave. But as you’ve seen, pestering him or giving him ultimatums might change what he says, but it won’t change what he wants.
If you know you want to get married to him, and he doesn’t want to get married to you, there is no middle ground. Unless not getting married is something you can get over without holding resentment, you need to choose yourself and walk away.
Did his proposal actually contain the words ‘will you marry me!’ Because it sounds from your post he gave you a ring and asked you to be with him for the rest of your lives. There’s a difference. You don’t have to get married to be together forever. The practical benefits of marriage are minimal these days especially when you have clearly stated you will have a prenup. So you really have to decide if a wedding is more important to you than the partnership. And there’s no wrong answer. If it is then you are clearly not meant to be together because it sounds that for him the wedding is unnecessary.
At this point it is pretty clear. I’m not sure why you are hear asking questions. He doesn’t want to marry you, Plain and simple. Be okay with that or move on. Why would you want to be married because of an ultimatum?
He does not want to marry you. Period. If that was all it was, and he straight out told you this, I would recommend you think about what is important to you, and either leave if you want marriage to be the end goal of your relationship, or stay and stop bringing up marriage if it’s not a deal breaker for you.
This is not just that, though. He’s manipulating you and being deceptive to intentionally give you a false impression of whether he wants to marry you so that he can continue to have what he wants while taking away your ability to make an informed decision. That means that in addition to your goals not aligning, he’s selfish and deceptive. Why would anyone stay with someone like that?
He doesn’t want to marry you. You want to get married. He’s not the guy. I would stop wasting more of my life with him. Your relationship plans don’t match.
Sounds like your fiancé is a shell of a human being. He doesn’t want to get married. He’s going along with it because the alternative is uncomfortable. Why waste anymore time with him if his path isn’t aligned with yours? You can see it, right?
My girlfriend would probably say “he doesn’t like you.”
To quote that thing people say a lot “if he wanted to, he would”
So, he’s told you how he really feels and you need to believe him. He doesn’t want marriage yet. He may change his mind at a later date sure, or he may want to get married to the next person. Who knows, all you know now is your are wasting your life with someone who doesn’t have the same values as you do. You deserve better quite frankly, someone who is excited to be with and married you.
My Fiancé and I have been engaged for 5ish years while we saved for a house deposit and weeding fund, but I could ask him at any point in the day if he still wants to and the answer is definitely yes!
However, he was with his ex for 7 years before me, and although they lived together and had little plans to break up when the subject of engagement and marriage came up he avoided It or said he didn’t want to. He said he knew he didn’t want to marry HER, but was quite happy to carry on in a relationship with her until they eventually broke up and that they probably should’ve broken up long before they did but it was stalemate. Now, I don’t think what he did was ok, and he acknowledges that and when we met 6 months later and then got engaged after a year, well I know it hurt her and I do feel for her, I do wish she had told him she deserved better and left for her own sake and to find her one. I’m guessing this happens more than a little.
So yes, believe him, you deserve better!
Take this as a lesson for next time, if you break up with someone, don’t get back together with them. If it doesn’t work the first time, the likelihood of it working on the second run are very, very low. Also, wait at least a year before you know your partner well enough to move in with them. Otherwise you get caught in the sunk cost fallacy.
Go find someone who gets excited at the thought of marrying you
I’m on a similar boat, together 6 engaged 1.5 and about a month ago he had me look for venues because it was happening only to change his mind 2 weeks later. I have been struggling with this and am immensely hurt. I told him I’m not sure about our relationship and now all of a sudden he’s all in wants the wedding I’ve been trying to plan.He says he will do whatever I want so he doesn’t lose me. I don’t want to force him into wanting what I want. I’m so lost right now because i don’t know what to do next. I live with him and the thought of tearing apart the life we had breaks my heart. Let me know what you end up doing.
I’m sure you both love each other very much, but maybe some more conversation about why he doesn’t want to get married would do you some good. He seems like he’s trying to please you, from context. I don’t see that you’ve asked him about his aversion, just called it “dragging his feet.” Some people don’t agree with marriage for so many different reasons, including personal or childhood ones that might take therapy to process.
OP, you deserve an enthusiastic yes, you are totally right there. But If marriage is really and truly a deal breaker to you, it sounds like this person is not the one for you. You shouldn’t coerce someone into marrying you and it would bring neither of you happiness.
He doesn’t want to marry you. The more you push and try to examine every part of this the worse you will feel. You want different things out of life so if you want to be married, then move on. If you decide to stay, don’t bring it up again because he has made things clear to you.
Are you Greek?
Reluctant is never how I want a partner to act about being my legal, married life long spouse. I would want a reaction more along the lines of “optimistic, excited, happy”.
>EDIT: I came back home today and now he wants an official wedding.
So in the past week he wanted: – No marriage at all – Non-official marriage – Official marriage – Eternal engagement.
Did he just find your post and is telling you what he thinks you wanna hear? Trust your instincts. Do you feel like he bullshitting you? Deep down? Good luck.
>I am shattered and lost. Is there something else I can or should do? Get some psychological help? Go for couples therapy? Am I being manipulated? Is it gaslighting? Should I move out from his place now?
> asked him “You are dragging your feet, do you want to get married at all”. He said “Not really”.
I say, trust your feelings based on his behaviors more than his words. If he’s acting disinterested, it’s because he is. Do you just want a husband you’re dragging along?
>First of all, because it seems unsincere, as he never openly stated he doesn’t want to be legally married.
Stop settling for less than you want!!!!
Hi OP, have you asked him why he suddenly changed his mind?
I get that how he’s went about all of this must be very confusing for you and going back on such a serious commitment must make you think twice too! However, just from my experience my mam and dad aren’t married and that’s purely down to my dad. My mam had always wanted to get married but my dad said he didn’t agree with it and he thinks that marriage is just a ring and a piece of paper which he doesn’t think is what defines his love for my mam…
He didn’t think marriage would change anything in their relationship. And they’ve been together for 30+ years, so I suppose my mam picked my dad over getting married. But I do personally completely understand the meaning of getting married!
why do you want to marry someone who doesn’t want to marry you?
Why is a legal document and a ceremony do important to you? What will it change in your relationship. Do you want to be married, or do you just want a wedding. Legit asking, not being a dick
So, he’s told you how he really feels and you need to believe him. He doesn’t want marriage yet. He may change his mind at a later date sure, or he may want to get married to the next person. Who knows, all you know now is your are wasting your life with someone who doesn’t have the same values as you do. You deserve better quite frankly, someone who is excited to be with and married you.
My Fiancé and I have been engaged for 5ish years while we saved for a house deposit and weeding fund, but I could ask him at any point in the day if he still wants to and the answer is definitely yes! However, he was with his ex for 7 years before me, and although they lived together and had little plans to break up when the subject of engagement and marriage came up he avoided It or said he didn’t want to. He said he knew he didn’t want to marry HER, but was quite happy to carry on in a relationship with her until they eventually broke up and that they probably should’ve broken up long before they did but it was stalemate. Now, I don’t think what he did was ok, and he acknowledges that and when we met 6 months later and then got engaged after a year, well I know it hurt her and I do feel for her, I do wish she had told him she deserved better and left for her own sake and to find her one. I’m guessing this happens more than a little. So yes, believe him, you deserve better!
Even if he does agreed to get married, are you sure it would be worth it? Now it will only feel like he’s marrying you as an obligation… not because he genuinely wants to. This will only cause resentment in your marriage, if there is one. And if there is one, why are y’all going into this talking about divorce already? I think that you are in the point in this relationship when you two are just looking for different things in your life, and not being able to agree on marriage is worth breaking up for. You deserve somebody better who can’t wait to marry you because they are so in love with you. That is what I wish for you… best of luck with your boyfriend.
But really, does he have something against marriage?
“He doesn’t want civil officers getting involved”. What is he planning on abusing you ten years down the line? Governments don’t interfere in your marriage unless someone’s been fucking horrendous what the hell bullshit excuse is he talking about.