Every relationship is different and this one is no exception. I (M34) met a woman (F27) where I work and had some fun quirky conversations last month. I eventually got her number and asked her out to do pottery on a weekend and we got lunch afterwards. She ended up bringing her daughter that she shares custody with to the date, which wasn’t a concern at all. It went really well and I got to see her in her element. She was trying to setup a hike or something for the next day which I couldn’t do because of previous plans. However, that did seem concerning to me that maybe she was trying to move fast.
Anyway, since that date we’ve talked every single day between shifts. She works days and I work evenings. I’m very surprised at how fast the time flies and how in depth we get. The wheels of conversation are well greased. We did end up going on a hike one morning before she had to go into work and afterwards she laid out expectations and how she actually wanted to move slow. She stated that she felt she’s moved too fast in her previous relationships and wanted to do better about this one. This was a load off my shoulders and I really appreciated that we could talk about it.
This past Sunday, we went out for a dinner date and had a fantastic time. The conversation was full of laughter and sincerity as they always are. During that date, she brought up sex and we discussed many aspects of it. and since then sex has been an open topic to be discussed about.
This is where we (This Subreddit) open up this can of worms. I’m also going to be all over the place when writing this out.
Throughout this period we still have these conversations every day between shifts. I’m talking 2 hour discussions, just me and her and nobody else around at the work place. All the while, she’s giving me heads-ups, and by the ways, and constantly letting me know what she does in relationships. In my mind, I feel like, we are really getting to know one another and I can see us having sex in next couple of weeks (not that I’m putting a time limit or a certain number of dates, but feel like we’re progressing naturally towards that point).
She’s brought up a few times that she’s not comfortable crying in front of people nor does she like seeing other adults cry and will leave the room if it happens. She’s also stated that she doesn’t like to cuddle after making love. Despite how transparent she is with me, I feel like she’s not emotionally vulnerable. There is a huge part of me that wants to work on that and create a relationship where she can feel secure about being emotionally open. Then, there is another part of me that thinks this person just won’t be available at all with me.
Everyone is different, but I do enjoy hugging a great deal. I hug my friends when greeting and saying goodbye. She however, isn’t. Our first couple of hugs were side hugs (one arm and touch hips). Which I’ve bought up and now we hug face to face, but I still have to always initiate it.
I kissed her at the end of out dinner date, to which she pulled away and which made the kiss was more of a peck. She stated that she was shy and felt that she’s not a good kisser. (FYI: She’s been married before and had her share of relationships).
Now, I’m not a pseudoscience kind of guy but I do put some weight into Love Languages. Mine being “physical touch” and “words of affirmation.” Hers would be “acts of service” and “gift giving.” I’ve done little things that feel appropriate this early in the relationship. Like pack the kinds of snacks she likes for a hike and bringing her her specific coffee that she likes after her shift a couple of times. Of which, she’s never been visibly or audibly excited about receiving. I inquired about the coffee this past week which she hadn’t touched. She stated that she was thankful about it and happy that it was the right order. She later said she didn’t feel comfortable drinking it in front of me. However, she was drinking a can of sparkling water as we conversed. I called her out on it, jokingly, but didn’t get an explanation.
Also, on certain days, I’ll shoot her a text after discussing heavy topics. Something stating that I appreciated that she shared it with me. And also after a date, thanking her for making the time to hang out even though she had to find a sitter for her child. But they go unacknowledged. (Can’t tell if this is who she is, or is she keeping certain doors closed in an effort to take it slow)
We went on another hike a couple of days ago, which was very strange indeed. While hiking she asked me about my kinks/fetishes. I was very surprised. anyway, we shared one another’s sexual interests all while being sincere and laughing. She did bring up that she’d like to watch her partner have sex with another woman, though she’d never done it before. She mentioned that it was like watching porn and your partner still gets to have sex without you needing to have any of the physical intimacy. Now, I’ve never done anything like that before and am open to it but it’s not my thing. I’m more of a platonic guy, myself. At the end of the hike she asked me what my expectations were for when we would have sex. I told her no specific time limit, just what would feel natural. If she invited me into her place after a date, I’d expect that it would be happening. I asked her the same, She said: “Realistically, I don’t see us having sex until around Christmas.” (Side Note: when a guys hears that after discussing sex, it sounds like forever. For a solid minute I thought we were still in June, and had to remind myself that it’s mid October.) I was kind of shocked about how long that felt. She went on to explain wanting to make this relationship the longest she’s ever gone before having sex. And also wanting to make sure that it’s the real thing and we’re good friends. After the hike, I sat on it for a few hours, feeling really mixed. On one aspect I felt honored that she was taking our relationship very seriously and didn’t want to make any mistakes, and on the other hand, my irrational thoughts made me feel like an insecure mess for not being charming, attractive, confident enough. Not being capable of wooing a women. (3 past years of rejection)
Anyway, later that day, we talked again in between shifts as normal and spoke about how we felt about one another and what are concerns were. I brought up my feelings after the hike but also brought up her lack of physical affection which is really important to me, and I couldn’t make heads or tails of it. Is she being closed off because she’s trying to move slow, or is this just who she is? She stated that she actually is often resisting the urge to being physical with me and that she can be annoyingly affectionate. She went on to describe her style which is more silly (like slapping my nipple), rather than the embracing style that I’d prefer but none the less she does become physical and she’s very funny and perhaps she was leaning into the humor. That all being said, I did feel much better after having that conversation and there was some light shining at the end of a tunnel. Maybe, it could be worth it.
Yesterday’s conversation was the biggest we’ve had yet. We went deep and heavy. We brought up huge past traumas and previous relationships and sexual assaults. Things that I’ve only told a few people in my life. We both listened to one another pasts very intently and learned a lot about one another. After I shared with her my story, she became visibly emotional. She said she didn’t know whether to cry, coddle me, or be angry at the perpetrator. To be honest, I was quite moved by it. I’ve never seen her like this and I liked seeing her be vulnerable in that way. I hoped she would be comfortable enough to cry or console me. However, I ended up walking over to her and hugging her myself. She was confused “Is this for me of for you?” as she lightly patted me on the back to end the hug. Then we continued talking for another hour and said our goodbyes. I shot her a text telling her that she’s an amazing person and thanked her for sharing everything with me. I got a reply back a couple of hours later asking me for a picture so she could share it with her friend as they talked. I sent her a few and jokingly asked her to send one back. but got nothing and my previous message of unacknowledged again.
Since then, I’ve been seriously considering that she’s just not going to be able to treat me the way that I like to be treated. It’s not lost on me that she’s incredibly busy, Full time job, working towards her Masters, being there for her daughter and sharing custody. on top of all the other life stresses. I think she’s funny ,charming, and also very transparent. Also, incredibly pretty and very brave. But then, I think she’s a little brash, emotionally unavailable, and lacking empathy. Thing that would be important to me for a human connection.
I’m looking for some advice on how to reason with this relationship. One aspect of sex being an open topic of discussion, what we like, how we like it, but it’s not happening anytime soon. The next aspect being that she just may not be available for me in the way that I’d like her to be, But I won’t truly know that until she lets her guard down.
As of right now, I’m thinking of just remaining friends and moving along. But I’ve never been in this kind of situation before and it feels very strange.
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TL;DR I’ve been hanging and going out with someone for the past month. Thinking about it, we’ve probably spent 70+ hrs together in the past 12 days. Nothing has happened more than hugs and a couple of light kisses. She has stated that she want to take it slow, which I’m on board with. But she states that she wants to take it really slow, despite talking in person 1-2 hours a day about everything under the sun, including sex that she has initiates on frequently. I’ve got a strong suspicion that she’s not emotionally available all while being very transparent about her thoughts and feelings. Also, Can’t tell if her lack of physical affection is because she wants to take it slow of because it’s in her character.
27 comments
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So tldr: date wants to wait 2 months for intimacy due to background issues/preferences, and you’re unhappy with this and taking it as a personal affront that you’re not charming enough.
I mean, if your needs aren’t being met and you guys aren’t physically compatible, it’s okay to move on.
Also please provide your own tldr for the wall of text
Ok so I read the whole thing…and my initial gut reaction is to move on. I think your response to everything that’s happened is the healthy and correct one.
Honestly it feels like she’s breadcrumbing you, especially after I read the Christmas thing, especially with the unresponsiveness to your texts, and the overt sex talk, and the lack of physical contact but also the way she dismisses what you like. There is definitely a strong element of her being emotionally unavailable. But also a bit of manipulation too, like she’s trying to see how far she can bend you?
I agree that the situation feels very strange and I have a distinct feeling that she can’t/won’t be the partner that you’re looking for. I dated a woman that felt similar to this in the past (bonding over trauma, withholding physical affection and intimacy and being unresponsive via communication) and it ended up just being a huge incompatibility and a waste of my time and energy.
Anyway good luck
I would talk to her frankly about what your relationship is. If you guys are dating the affection should be expected after this long, but my guess is she is really just using you as a friend. Ask yourself if there wasn’t any chance of sex with this woman would you spend this amount of time and energy on her? Sex and intimacy are important parts of a romantic relationship for many people. I think you should look for someone who wants the same things as you. My guess is this woman doesn’t know what she wants, and is fine play acting with you as long as she gets affirmation. But remember I’m just a rando on the internet. So grain of salt and all that.
Look, what essentially is happening, two people are opening up insanely deep while being nobody to each other. You call it a relationship while it is not. All your interactions boil down to talking. And both of you are dancing around the idea of having a relationship while doing nothing about getting into one. All you do is talk in depths. It’s like having a pen pal but in person.
I will never believe a person who is physically attracted to someone and actually wants to be with said someone would postpone having sex with them for no apparent reason other than “I just want to delay”.
Then, it’s quite weird of her to bring up sex and discuss it without any intention to actually do that. It’s like sexting but in person.
Everything about it is super weird. I am not questioning that woman’s sincerity (like, I am not assuming she is playing games) but I do question her state of mind (frankly, yours as well).
Have you ever considered a possibility that you could end up on bad terms? What would she do with all that sensitive info you shared? What would you do if she goes hostile and uses it against you? It is not impossible.
I suggest, slowly back off and make it look like she dumped you. And get yourself a therapist or some other way to deal with your need to be heard.
I’m sorry and I could be wrong, but my instinct reading this is that she isn’t into you physically. She seems to have a high libido and enjoys talking about sex, and clearly enjoys your company a great deal and cares about you as a person, but pulling away from a kiss is a big red flag. It reads to me like she wants to like you romantically but just doesn’t. People who have histories of moving too fast almost never actually succeed in taking things slow when they like someone. Hope I’m wrong but it sounds like she might not being honest with herself or you about her actual interest in a romantic relationship.
Edit: hope you don’t mind me lurking but I checked if it had other dating posts and I saw your profile review, you are incredibly handsome and seem like an amazing person and I’m sorry to read you have doubts in that area. You deserve someone who makes you feel like the catch you are.
Sounds like not a great fit.
You: Said you’re okay with moving slow (or even want to) but yet you lack and ask for physical contact when she made it clear she wants to go slowly.
Her: Sounds like a mess, honestly. I couldn’t finish the post because it was just painful to read. Agreed with others she’s either breadcrumbing you and not that into you, or she hasn’t dealt with some emotional issues where she actually wants to be close to you, but keeps fighting herself constantly.
At any point where you have to write an essay this long about somebody you’re not even dating yet, it’s a “move on” territory.
She sounds a bit all over the place, as if she doesn’t really know what she wants. Also bringing up sex and fetishes but not wanting to have sex with you for a few more months seems a bit manipulative in a way.
Out of everything you talked about ‐ what stands out to me the most is her reaction/style to hugs and when you kissed she pulled away. It might not be a problem for you now but if your love language is touch then eventually your desire to be touched more or touch her more will probably be a bigger issue than you now realise. I don’t believe she is shy, I’m certain she is uncomfortable with physical touch. Especially if she doesn’t cuddle after sex and has a kink for you to have sex with another woman in front of her. It sounds as if she wants everything out of a relationship except for anything physical at all. And if she does want something physical it will probably be very transactional.
The coffee thing gives me the vibe that she’s either ungrateful or entitled. Not wanting to drink in front of you is very strange – she’s comfortable to talk about fetishes but not drink a coffee in front of you?
Overall I honestly think she may have some issues that hasn’t been dealt with and that even though you’ve had great, honest conversation you are possibly not compatible.
My first thoughts were that she’s maybe incapable of reading and understanding social cues? I certainly am not trying to put a label on her but some people with certain behavioural disorders can display behaviours that don’t align with what they say. People without behavioural disorders can too. It could just be what others have said that she just simply isn’t in to it and perhaps wants the attention without the follow through. I just think that not acknowledging your thoughtfulness with the snacks and coffee, not wanting to hug, being confused by other people’s emotions and not understanding the situation of how important a hug was for you after divulging your trauma ….. All could be signs of social interaction difficulties. I’m not a therapist though, just a mere Reddit user trying to suggest alternatives haha.
It’s a very confusing situation though. And at the end of the day, you both appear to be on very different pages. If you end up pursuing this, you will more than likely have to sacrifice parts of yourself that would result in unmet needs and resentment. I think you share something nice but there isn’t enough there to be excited about moving forward. If I were in your position, I would put a stop to it and wait until someone else comes in to your life that can provide you with physical touch and unforced emotional communication. Plus imagine if you actually went through with sleeping with someone else in front of her. I’m sure it can be done but as a monogamous man, that would bring a whole heap of stuff up for you in the lead up and after. I would just accept that it’s been nice having the chance to hang out and get to know each other better but to pull the pin on anything further as it isn’t a match. Good luck!
She seems like she likes the attention. I would move on. She’s not attracted to you physically it seems.
Good relationships shouldn’t be this confusing so near the beginning. You should feel emphatically confident and there should be no doubt in your mind how you feel or how she feels about moving forward. I’m sensing mind games. The idea of waiting longer than any other relationship she’s had to have sex with you is crummy. Why compare you to others like that? She’s not thinking in the moment or reacting to you right in front of her. She’s stuck in some other time. I’d be annoyed as hell. Move on and let her know you don’t feel like she’s able to treat you how you want in your ideal relationship, and maybe it’ll jolt her out of her weird mind games thing.
With the amount y’all are talking, it shouldn’t be so confusing. You seem to know what you want and extremely grounded(awesome that you go to therapy).
There is nothing wrong with continuing the friendship and see where the journey takes you, but for sanity, I’d continue dating other people until she commits.
People relate in all sorts of different ways, and wanting to take it slow physically definitely isn’t something you should be worried about, unless you’re looking for a one night stand, or a FWB of course.
Working together also adds another level of complication, particularly when she’s also a parent and quite busy with her study too.
I would never try and slap a diagnostic label on someone from a secondhand reddit re-tell, but I did wonder as I was reading through your post, if your work friend is neurodivergent?
Also. 12 days is not very long.
She sounds like a woman a friend of mine dated. He did so much stuff for her and helped her care for her child. In the end, she was just emotionally unavailable to him and it caused a lot of issues in their relationship (he would give give give and she would take but not give back what he wanted from her). When he finally broke up with her she didn’t take him seriously and they had that conversation a handful of times until she finally got the hint (this friend is super direct so there’s no confusion on her part here). If you continue, I would be extremely careful.
Do not date people you work with.
Brother youre 34. What are you doing? Every word of this is a disaster waiting to happen.
Which is totally fine too if youre into that!!
But if youre not – run and dont look back. Change jobs and then your number.
I personally see this woman differently than the assessments here. Arm-chair diagnosing her as neurodivergent is something else, IMO
It sounds like she wants to be honest and upfront (“full disclosure” in case you want to run) while trying to keep her guard up because she recognizes a pattern of jumping into things, wants to do it differently, and has responsibilities you don’t. And – I really stress this! – your closeness is a mirage! You are not yet in a relationship and have seen each other for less than 2 weeks. It may feel intimate but it’s still a drop in the bucket.
That a woman isn’t ready to kiss you on the second date and pulls away… comments here are a surprise to me. This doesn’t automatically mean she’s not attracted, playing with you, or likes attention. It could just mean that you’re moving faster than she feels comfortable — and she did honestly share her reasons and her preferred pace. It could also mean she had garlic breath. Or a dozen other possibilities… seriously, humans are sometimes more complex than this.
As for her not thanking or acknowledging… unfortunately, some people have bad manners. You may have run into others but it didn’t matter as much as you weren’t sizing them for a potential longterm something.
You’re clearly thoughtful (maybe even to the point of overthinking) so, if that’s a dealbreaker, then it’s a broken deal. She’s not going to change. It’s unfortunate but true. Personally, I dealt with this by coming to the conclusion that I won’t do things expecting gratitude. If it happens, that makes me happy. If not, I wasn’t expecting something that they didn’t give. (And, honestly, doing something kind that the other person didn’t ask for and expecting something from them…) anyway, what’s right for me isn’t necessarily right for you but that’s because we’re different people and we’re allowed to be! The point is, can you live with it?
If her pace doesn’t suit your needs, it doesn’t make either one of you wrong. It just makes you wrong for each other.
Okay. I could be wrong, but I’ll give it a shot here.
Let me tell you what I see here: I, F, had a extremely lonely childhood where hugging, kissing, cuddles, hand holding, etc. just wasn’t offered to me. After a while, I just gave up trying to receive and give love when it came to my parents and they would just show love by paying for things (like the sport) I loved. Then once I was in high school and hanging out with people, I’d be extremely uncomfortable with how touchy-feeling normal people are. it made me feel like I was somehow doing something wrong to make people think I wanted to be touched. Add into that, years of emotional, sexual, and physical trauma and you have someone who has to have A LOT of trust in someone to even feel comfortable enough to embrace someone in a hug. The way you describe her sounds similar to what I went through, but when I realized it was a huge problem for me to even sit close to people and it destroyed relationships, friendships, and just my life in general; I went to therapy and learned boundaries for myself that don’t make the other person feel unloved or unwanted.
It sounds similar, but the fact that YOU feel off and/or dejected makes me think that YOUR gut is telling you this is not going to work for you. Imo, she has some things she may need to work through, but you shouldn’t have to wait for her to do that. Having these deep conversations are amazing and we as humans crave them, but the lack of affection is obviously going to be a deal breaker for you. This is your love language which means you will not feel loved later on down the road and, from the sounds of it, she is already making you feel unappreciated which is a terrible feeling to have at all. For me, my love language changes once I trust a person and feel 100% comfortable with them, but that came with years of hard work and therapy….and the fact that she’s not really taking your concerns and feelings into consideration already is a huge red flag imo.
I think you guys should just be friends at most, but you should move on and find someone more emotionally available to you and more in tune with what they want and how they feel. If you ask me, it doesn’t even seem like she’s willing to come to a mutual compromise when it comes to physical touch and intimacy (not even talking about sex rn, just intimacy in general) and that’s the least she could do if she really liked you and wanted something more with you.
….wow
Why are you putting up with this
If you’re genuinely asking bc you’re wondering what her deal is, here are my guesses in no particular order of likelihood
1. She’s still sleeping with her kids dad
2. She’s married
3. She’s sleeping with someone else
4. She doesn’t want to sleep with you
5. She might want to sleep with you but isn’t really that into it so she’s back burner ing you
6. She’s neurodivergent in some way (this is the most charitable explanation, I think)
7. She’s mentally unstable and has a personality disorder of some kind (NOT the same as above at all)
8. She has an attachment disorder of some kind (somewhat a possible overlap with number 7)
9. Her kink is submissive men that grovel for her time/her kink is withholding sex
10. She has some deep seated trauma issue that is causing one, some, or all of 1-9 above
And I second everyone else’s comments: this is not a relationship. You are not in a relationship at all. You are just being some woman’s therapist for some reason?
You are not gonna want to hear it, but you need to….
She only likes the attention you give her. There isnt going to be a physical relationship here. The sex talk is exciting and titillating, but that is all it is. Her reaction to the kiss is proof enough of that.
For your own well being, move on to someone who is into you completely.
You work together = walk away, idiot.
She pulled back from a kiss after MULTIPLE dates = walk away, idiot.
She says she can’t see sex with you until Christmas = walk away, idiot.
She’s using you for attention. You’re the nice guys, she’s friendzoned you.
Autistic or neurodivergent lady, probably? Very manic pixie dream girl, which is a straight up stereotype of autistic women.
Hey man,
I kind of agree with some of the people that responded to this. She seems to be still processing whatever it is she’s been through and I’m not sure you want to get into the middle of that. Side note that I am in recovery when it comes to codependency and love addiction and for many of us we have to keep in check this whole savior complex that we have. I’m certainly not saying that to you, but I can see how it might be easy to get into that territory considering past trauma, as well as a child being involved.
Obviously there is more to the story than what you were able to put here, but I’m a little thrown off by her bring her child on the first date. I love kids, and I would’ve been totally open to that myself… But at the same time I feel like it’s not something that you do on the first date. All of that being said, it seems like you guys do you have a connection and it might be worth spending some time figuring out if she can give you what you need.
She seems to really enjoy telling you all of the things that she needs in a relationship, but doesn’t seem to be paying a lot of attention to your wants and needs when it comes to a partner. so I guess within that it might be time to put some boundaries down yourself. Maybe let her know that you are open to exploring a partnership, but you also need to have your needs fulfilled so that you feel safe. If she’s open to listening and can move in that direction… Great. But it doesn’t seem like she’s going to come there on her own which is why you might need to communicate that you are being fluid about the situation.
Best of luck.
Good grief.
If you are left feeling lacking and confused and unacknowledged at this point, I’d have to say there is no reason to assume that will change. And probably it would get worse. I’m sorry. I’d tell her this exactly when you have the conversation and could just say but it would be a fulfilling enough friendship.
She’s loving the attention my man.
Consider it a really lovely compliment.
You’re good enough to flirt with big time and she loves that you’re attracted to her, loves pushing your buttons and she is absorbing it. Have been there myself and I see you as having 2 options:
1. Play for more. To do this, you have to slow down on the emotional availability and meter it out in proportion to getting what you want moving forward in pace with it. Accept this may lead to a slow fade if she’s not up for it, but is going to be only shot on having more with her.
2. Lap it up as a really healthy friendship with chemistry (I got back on my feet after divorce with a few of these with incredibly beautiful women I didn’t think would be interested in me). Accept that your value to her will be very high and long lasting, but you won’t be getting intimate ever and will exists as a friend who validates her.
Sure there’s shades of that, but this situation seems clear cut as teetering on plutonic and you’re going to lock that status in if you keep “putting out” emotional availability without her having to move things forward.
Worth noting that talking about sex with others a lot is usually code for friendship type comfort more than wanting it with you (and it feels good for her that it winds you up a bit).
Didn’t read it all tbh if your writing such a long essay your over thinking it. It seems that shes playing with you and loves your submissiveness, btw you are not in a relationship. Actions speak louder then words. Don’t get attached at such an early stage, probably start seeing other people and see how divergent she is compared to other dates.