To what extent do cultural class divides exist in your country that aren’t necessarily directly tied to income?

5 comments

1. I think education plays a big role. Having parents who went to university is a big determinant for the educational and financial success of the children.

   But in general, I read that the class system in German is not as strong as in other European countries like Britain or France.

   Some have the theory that the nazis and the war destroyed the old class structure to some extent and created a more level playing field for the post-war society.

2. Consumerism, materialism, ostentatious displays of wealth, etc. – all certainly play a huge role in American class lines and perceptions, that said there is certainly more to it than that.

   In fact, much of it once you scratch the surface aligns with the other considerations you mentioned. That is your own familial lineage and social standing, your parent’s’ occupation(s), schools attended, values, ways of speaking and word choice.

   Of course, these are admittedly more pronounced in the UK. But ultimately, a big element of the upper-crust snobbery in both countries, is of course this sort of “old money” mentality (though maybe y’all have slightly divergent terminology here). This notion (deluded as it may be) that one’s money and status is better than another’s because one’s money comes from an established lineage of esteemed social status and financial privilege.

   And this disdain for what is deemed *nouveau riche*. I often see it as a deflection due to to perceived slipping of one’s own social status. That is, ultimately, whether people want to admit it or not, money lies at the heart of class divisions in both countries, and nothing hurts the landed gentry’s soul more than to see upward social mobility from a lesser class, especially not when that individual’s wealth level surpasses their own, so such terms are created to diminish such people and accomplishments.

   I digress, the US sense of class is more broadly viewed through a nouveau riche lens than purely old money, that is that money and wealth itself indeed play a more (admittedly) visible role in class construction, than they do in the UK (at least at a superficial glance).

   That said, as alluded to there is still a strong old money element present in certain parts of the US, these are most prominently the Northeast (think Ivy Leagues, lacrosse and Boston & NYC aristocracy) and to a lesser extent the South (think the remnants of Old South, plantations, Southern gentlemen and some shit like that). California is very new money vibes in essence, but honestly there’s still a large chunk of wealth concentrated in that whole subset.

   Some class markers for upper class (which let’s consider for this as “upper middle class” level and up):

   – **Schools attended:** secondary education, a private Catholic (even better if Jesuit) or prestigious boarding school. For higher ed, obviously the Ivy League is the ultimate marker of elitism here, next tier would be non-Ivy elite private schools such as MIT, Standford and Duke among others, then finally elite state schools such as University of Virginia, UNC Chapel Hill or University of Michigan.

   – **Occupations:** for old-money, businesss (business exec/CEO), finance (CPA, corporate accountant or owner of ones own very successful accounting firm), Medical (MD), Law (attorney). For new money – it can be a bit more broad, IT jobs, anything with mega-successful entrepreneurial spirit behind it, a Physical Therapist, a few others I’m forgetting.

   – **Speech/accent:** for the most part it’s expected that you speak with a general American accent, or newscaster English (rather than any regional accent) so to speak. This is actually one of the more glaring differences in compared to how this works across the pond. Since RP is considered a standard or newscaster English in England, it tends to be the accent emulated and perpetuated by the upper class. That said, there’s this seemingly unwritten societal rule/expectation that if you’re working class that you wouldn’t dare to ever emulate an RP accent, you’d probably be hung by the Queen herself on grounds of class appropriation or something like that **/s**. Whereas the General American accent is a sort of common dialect and accent, not bound by class in the same way as RP. Thus as a result, there’s more emphasis on one having a well-rounded and polished vocabulary (as a marker of being well-educated) than any particular accent, past the general American one. The exception to this I would say, is to some extent, certain Southern accents in certain Old Money South circles. But I would say a heavy Boston or New York accent would be looked down up by Northeastern upper crust types.

3. >In the UK I would say this only explains a small element of cultural differences between people of different social classes while the rest is related to general social and ethical values, the social background of your parents, the way you speak, your hobbies and interests etc.

   I’d say it’s the same in Germany. Personal believes, the way you speak etc are probably among the biggest dividers. Education is the most important thing, how educated you are shows up in the way you behave, speak and in how you make sense of the world.

   In terms of language it’s not linked to accents but vocabulary and eloquence. One dead giveaway where you came from is your vocabulary and how you express yourself. I grew up in a rural low income house hold and was the first in my family to go to university. I have to curate how I speak all the time. For my parents I have to “dumb down” my vocabulary or they’ll just not understand what I’m talking about vs. I have to carefully chose my words when talking in business meetings at work to not lose equal footing in a discussion.

4. We used to have something which is called pillarisation in The Netherlands. You belong to either of the following groups/pillars; Catholics, Protestants, socialist or liberalist/general. So those groups used to live separated. Each group had their own schools, political parties, broadcasting organizations, sports club, newspapers, unions and so on. Since the 1970s this division is slowly fading away but still left a mark on Dutch society.

5. Education. So much that we have a social class/stratum named after it, the Bildungsbürgertum. It evolved in the 18th century among Lutheran priests and is directly tied to the history of education in Lutheran regions.
   It later spread to the professors of our many universities, physicians and high level government clerks.

   NB that education is a very insufficient translation of Bildung. Bildung is not only formal training and knowledge of facts, but also the personal growth due to challenging one’s own beliefs. And a bit more, depending on the cultural circumstances.