# Some background
First, this account is a throwaway, for reasons. But talking about the issue: my romantic life is non existent, and I’m not sure why. I am a 24 year old unkissed virgin and… well, that kinda bothers me, and I hope this sub can help me. So, I am currently a 3rd year Computer Science undergrad (didn’t join college right out of high school) and also work as a programmer. I’ve been trying to get a girlfriend pretty much since I was a teenager, but no luck so far. I used to be a pretty shy kid with zero social skills and, while I have improved myself a lot throughout the years, this doesn’t seem to have helped me much in the romantic side of things.
Unlike my teenage self, I don’t have much issue with going up to people, presenting myself and firing up a conversation. Also, unlike my teenage self, I actually do have a few friends, some of them being women. So I seem to have things sorted out a bit on the friendship side of things. But the issue on the romantic side of things persists. Actually, forget getting a girlfriend, I can’t even seem to be able to get a girl out on a date!
My usual approach to things is nothing out of ordinary. I just go about my daily life, try to chat with people whenever I can, and when a girl catches my eye, I try to get to know her a little better. I usually ask about things her hobbies, music taste, sports, choice of major, work, family, friends, and whatever else happens to come up. I don’t try to game them, and I don’t put them on a pedestal either. I just try to have a normal conversation with a few compliments/subtle flirting peppered in and maybe some cheeky comments that I think she will find funny. After knowing her for a while, I usually tell her I like her (not love, just like) and ask if she want’s to go out, and I’m explicit about it not being just about hanging out as friends. The answer is always a “no”.
So far, the girls that rejected me haven’t been mean or anything like that. The rejection usually comes in the form of a smile, followed by something along the lines “You’re cool, but I’m not interested right now” or “Sorry, but I’m already seeing another guy”. A few times I have asked whether there was something wrong with me or if something I said or did put her off. The usual response is “No, you’re a nice guy, I’m just not interested”.
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# Was this supposed to be easy?
Wherever I am, I look around and what do I see? Couples. Couples, everywhere. How? Why? Why does this whole dating thing seem to come so easy to everyone else, while being impossible to me?
Worse is when I get questions about getting a girlfriend from my parents, their friends or my neighbors. It’s usually something like “Do you have a girlfriend yet?” or “Why don’t have a girlfriend?”. I can only think to myself: “Fuck, if I know!”.
The whole situation makes me feel down sometimes. Am I some sort of alien or what? Why do I struggle so much with something that is supposed to be so natural, and seems to be so easy for everyone else?
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# Some qualities I think I have
So, I wouldn’t say I’m the best conversationalist in the world, but I think I can hold a conversation decently, with both women and men. If I share a common interest with the other person, I can have an engaging conversation for hours.
I take care of my appearance. I trim and shape my beard once or twice a week and take care of my hair by getting a haircut regularly and using conditioner and combing cream. I also try to make sure my clothes are decent, don’t look too beaten up, don’t have holes in them, etc.
In terms of overall appearance, I find myself pretty average, but I usually get some compliments on my appearance from women older than me (usually 40+ years old), so I guess I’m actually attractive, right? I also workout at the gym and think I’m in pretty decent shape, and even get comments on my booty every now and then. I know, unusual for a guy, but I’ll take it. Other than fitness, I’m also into music, and play guitar. Well, I haven’t actually played much lately due to lack of time, but anyway…
When it comes to hygiene, I try to be the cleanest I can and make sure I smell good. So I always shower thoroughly, brush my teeth after every meal, floss, use mouthwash, shave my armpits and pubes to avoid body odor, carry a can of deodorant on my backpack and so on.
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# Some things that confuse me
First off, it seems weird that I only get compliments on my appearance from older women. On one hand, the fact that I get compliments makes me think I’m actually quite attractive. But since women my age don’t ever compliment my appearance, I sometimes wonder if the older women are complimenting me out of pity…
But anyway, another thing that confuses me is the fact that I’ve seen guys in a relationship that:
* Take zero care of themselves (in terms of both appearance and hygiene).
* Are severely overweight.
* Have poor conversational skills.
* Have virtually no life outside of gaming.
* Have terrible breath or body odor.
Meanwhile, here I am, lonely, as I have always been, despite all the effort I put into improving myself.
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# What am I doing wrong?
Now, what I said above may have made me sound bitter and judgmental, but that’s not what I’m trying to do. What I mean is, why do I have no success with women despite having some desirable traits, while men that lack them seem to be doing just fine? I must be doing something very wrong, but I have no idea what. If I’m (apparently) attractive, am a nice guy (in the words of the very girls who rejected me), take care of myself, have a couple of hobbies, etc., then why does no one want me?
I really need some advice on this…
3 comments
Aight, I may have a limited perspective since I’ve been out of the dating game for 10+ years but maybe I have some insight as a woman. Please take this with a grain of salt!
Older women:
As I find myself getting older, I find it easier to be less self conscious about my words, as well as it being easier to be straightforward about things. It’s a lot easier to genuinely compliment people since I don’t feel I am bound by some social rules about what to do if they reciprocate. It used to feel like if I admitted I found someone pleasing, that was perceived as flirtation. Now I can more factually appreciate people without it being weird.
The same feelings were there when I was younger, I just was more scared to vocalize and accept them. Perhaps this is what is going on with the younger women also?
The things you list as downsides can be that for many, but some of them are also down to the women’s preference. Some women prefer quieter partners, or gamers. I personally prefer heftier men – being smaller than my partner makes me feel safe (and also soft people are a lot better to cuddle lol). I also prefer to have a lot of my own space so a partner with a lot of hobbies of his own is ideal for me.
Most of the difficulty isn’t finding someone that’s “good”, it’s more about the difficulty of finding someone that is currently and open to working on becoming a good fit for whatever you need as a team. Attraction is important of course, but when you think about a long relationship there are other qualities that are more important. And those can be really different from person to person. They can also “make up” for or make some generally not as good traits less relevant when considering a partner.
That being said, sounds like you have things pretty well in hand generally and are just having trouble getting that initial spark. It may be that you’re actually doing something wrong or that you’re just looking for love in the wrong places. Maybe your type has different priorities or preferences than what you’re exhibiting. Who knows.
Sorry about the ramble. It’s not a really good response but maybe with the other comments you can piece things together a bit.
Maybe I have some insight as someone who is in a similar situation.
I think the reason you aren’t having success isn’t because you’re not good enough or didn’t approach enough people. There is a problem but it’s not your value as a person. Your life sounds fine on the surface but I feel like you could have some unresolved trauma or emotional neglect. It’s easy to assume your childhood was fine because you’re parents didn’t beat you but a lot of people are traumatized and don’t realize it. Emotional neglect is still abuse and it can hurt you.
At one point I thought my social life was good because I didn’t seem to have trouble with making friends. I had trouble with dating but I assumed it was something that could be easily fixed with more self improvement. As the years went by my situation seemed to get worse and worse because other people seemed to get in relationships easily without doing much self improvement while I was doing a lot of self improvement and still failing. It didn’t seem fair.
I used to be shy with no social skills but I incorrectly assumed this was a part of my personality instead of a result of my parents emotionally abusing me. I really wanted friends and a girlfriend but not because I actually liked the other person. I always felt this emptiness in my life and I believed improving my social skills and getting other people to like me would fix the problem. The real problem was I was a people pleaser and I was getting rejected by girls because most healthy girls knew that I was traumatized and identified my behaviors as a red flag. The only girls who would be interested in me are narcissists or emotionally distant girls.
I was able to date after having my parents introduce me to girls but it was traumatizing. At first I thought my parents were actually doing me a favor because they saw me struggling with dating and wanted to help out. But the problem with all of these relationships is that they are empty just like my parent’s marriage. On the outside we appear as a perfect couple on paper but the relationships lack any emotion and intimacy. I feel like I am just a trophy husband whose goal is to spoil a woman and give her luxury.
Every time I’ve tried to improve the relationship, the other person often disregards my needs and emotions. I think the resentment comes in because I hate how much disrespect I get but I feel like I can’t find a better girl and I just put up with it until I stop caring about the relationship entirely. There is no passion or chemistry in our relationship. We don’t have many common hobbies and most of the conversations are one sided. I don’t think I’ve felt any excitement when I think about the blind dates.
I used to think the problem was not ending up in a relationship but I realize it was to end up in a healthy relationship. When I see happy couples who make each other laugh and genuinely love each other it made me jealous. It’s not because they did more self improvement. It’s because they had loving parents who taught them how to spot red flags and find people who care about them.
At the time I thought my social life was fine but it wasn’t. I was in one sided relationships and people would just use me and discard me. I should have tried to go to therapy but I thought my problem was not having a girlfriend.
Hire an escort, get kiss & sex out of the way. You will see women and life in general differently. I understand the frustration and clearly your virginity is bothering you. No need to dwell on that thinking it’s some magical thing and everything will be great after that. Let go.