**TL;DR**: I talked to my fiancé after making my first post with some of the advice I received
Previous Post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/yb5whj/reconsidering\_mym26\_engagement\_after\_my\_fianc%C3%A9f25/](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/yb5whj/reconsidering_mym26_engagement_after_my_fianc%C3%A9f25/)
I talked to my fiancé again yesterday after some of the advice I received, but I want to clear up a few misunderstandings from my first post. Hanna is 14 and was asked to dance to a song her parents chose at the engagement party. Janice didn’t like the dance or the dress she wore. When Hanna’s parents posted the album of the party on Facebook, Janice downloaded a picture of the performance and reposted it to her personal Facebook alongside a rant. In her rant, she called her performance “porn” while eluding to the picture she reposted. She also said it gave off “stripper vibes” and that “people who dress like her ask to be r\*ped”
When I asked to call Janice myself, that was an emotional reaction that would’ve been out of my place. I’m glad I made the post so that others could tell me, and thank you to everyone who did. I never dealt with someone like Janice before. But I want to explain why I was reconsidering our engagement because many said I was wrong to do so. That I was trying to to get involved for drama’s sake, and that brings me to my update. We talked for a third time (the first since my first post) from the perspective of some of the advice I received, and I asked my parents for advice too. I also asked Clare to voice how she felt about me in this situation because I wanted to also hear her out
**Update**:
When we talked, Claire said she wanted to invite Janice to the wedding (after talking to her parents and Janice’s post about Hanna) because it’d be more drama if they didn’t. When I asked how she could still invite her after what she said about Hanna, she said Janice’s comments “weren’t a big deal” again. So I asked her something that someone suggested in a comment. When I asked how she’d feel if Janice hypothetically made that comment about her potential daughter, she said I was “overblowing” the porn comment because it “wasn’t worth not inviting her over”. When I asked about the r\*pe comment, she said to “move on” because “it’d be forgotten soon”. She also said she’d tell her daughter to “not take everything personally” if Janice said the same about her. She also said that Hanna “was probably looking at that stuff already”
I was already bothered by her wanting to invite Janice before our third talk. But after having it, I was surprised by how much she doubled down and saw no fault in Janice’s post. She also said that Janice disapproved of her doing ballet when she was younger, so Hanna “needed to grow a spine” when she was hurt by the post. That comment bothered me, and my parents said she might be upset that I care about Hanna because no one might’ve cared/defended her at that age. They also said she saw no fault in Janice’s actions because her family normalized it years ago. Dad also said she might have similar remorse to our potential children, and Clare said that Janice was coming regardless of what I thought. She was also upset when I told her I reported the Facebook post Janice made. I want to add that I never told wanted them to engage in a Facebook comment battle with Janice. I just became upset because Hanna is a minor who’s picture was used without their consent and called porn online, something they think is “no big deal”. The parents asked Hanna to perform at the party, but didn’t defend her when her aunt cyberbullied her
I’ve lurked long enough to know that people usually question past behavior that led to situations. But before the engagement party, I didn’t see this side of her. We didn’t have Janice outbursts the past 2 years due to covid and not meeting for the holidays; the only exception was her rant about family who became vaccinated. Claire and I were excluded from that because we weren’t involved and weren’t hosting Thanksgiving/Christmas. Some family tried to convince her to become vaccinated (to meet for the holidays), but she refused which led to her rant. Technically, Janice has no issues with Claire now after blaming Claire’s parents who allowed Hanna to perform. And when she said that the porn comment “wasn’t bad” despite being a minor, I told her that I was reconsidering our engagement because she couldn’t see how Janice cyberbullying a 14 year old was wrong (on top of wanting to still invite her to the wedding). She said she’s not budging, and that’s her stance… even when I offered no-contact with Janice going forward. Aside from being surprised, I’m going to probably discuss cancelling with my parents after talking to her for the third time
*edit: I tried to suggest going no-contact/blocking Janice after not inviting her to the wedding so that she wouldn’t have to tolerate a likely Facebook rant. However, she refused and said she’d still hear about it from other relatives who’d take her side. When I suggested telling others that she didn’t want to hear about Janice, she said she “wasn’t about to block her entire family”*
*This wasn’t the first time Janice disapproved of the sports she and Hanna did. She also did dance when she was younger, and Janice voiced her opinion then too. But they told Claire to toughen up, and she explained that as her reasoning for saying Hanna “needed to grow a spine”*
35 comments
Wow the only thing I can think to potentially save the engagement is to state that you want to do couples therapy over this and if she isn’t willing it is time to end the relationship. The fact that she would tell your future daughter to just suck up with the bullying is scary.
My only concern is for Hanna as I am worried people will take out this situation on her.
Know why Janice has gotten away with her shitty behavior for so long? Because people like your GF and her parents let her by not calling her on her shit. You probed your GF and found out unequivocally that she’d treat your kids the same way, basically telling then to suck it up. ANd regardless of your feelings, she’s already told you Janice is coming to your wedding. YOUR wedding. I’m hoping you’ll clue in and realize this relationship is going absolutely nowhere.
Yes at this point break-up of engagement is the only option. If she doesn’t self reflect after that it’s a lost case. I dread to think what parent would she make, I have read online horror stories how family would abuse people as children while parent would ignore that.
Of course it’s sad thing, because you thought you built with her something that would last potentially lifetime. Still it’s sort of a miracle you got to see her ugliest side before marriage.
If you’re having second thoughts about getting married, do not do it. You don’t have to justify or analyze it. If you’re not sure, run.
Yes, your instinct is correct on this: Things will not go well if you marry this woman. The callousness! Oy!
Life can be difficult at times and the last thing you want is to spend it with someone so hard (as in opposite of soft). Oy!
Wow. I’m sorry to see that even with reasonable consideration and discussion from your side she’s still doubling down here.
There’s no future where she backs down, this is who she is. And in no way would it ever be appropriate to have children with a woman who has already said she will side with the bully. Because that’s what saying toughen up and ignoring it means. Your wife is more than happy to allow the bully to have her way even if it means her future children are harmed rather than have “drama”.
You deserve the chance to raise children with someone who shares your values and who will defend them as they need.
No matter what has happened in her past there is no excuse for allowing the same to happen to the next generation.
Thank you for updating us on your engagement! I’m blown away by the fact she has no consideration that it’s not just her wedding and she’s already making decisions for you. Like how about there is no wedding if you’re not there? Can’t get married to yourself! Please dump this lady dear stranger. You got your answer, this is how she’s going to raise your potential daughter. Next time try and find a woman with a family that you can tolerate. Wishing you the best!
Does she hate her sister? I can’t imagine letting anyone bully and abuse my sibling. The lack of compassion and inability to recognize abuse is absolutely disturbing. It doesn’t matter if she too had similar experiences and it was normalized by family. She would have at least developed some compassion for anyone being forced to experience that shit. That’s the most upsetting part. She has no empathy for the victim.
That isn’t something you can change or force them to recognize. If she hasn’t learned to be empathetic by now, she likely won’t ever.
I personally couldn’t marry someone like that.
The biggest full stop for me was her saying if Janice said something similar about your hypothetical daughter in the future GF would tell your daughter to grow a spine or not to take it personally. There’s no way in hell someone would talk about my child like that, post a picture without my or my child’s consent, and I would put that on my child’s shoulders. That’s insane. Several boundaries were crossed.
Janice would not be at my wedding, would not be around my child, and would not be privy to pictures of said child. Until that was clear to future wife/GF I would have serious doubts moving forward with a wedding.
Huh. You know, I thought that ending the engagement would be a bit of a jump after your last post, but Claire really dug her heels in, didn’t she? I think you’re right that it’s a “well, I didn’t get any help, so why should she?” defense mechanism. I’m particularly alarmed by her statement about any potential daughter you two had. And “Hanna is probably looking at that stuff already,” meaning porn?! As if a. that’s not a weird thing to say and b. like there isn’t a big ass difference between looking at porn and being accused of being a porn star.
Definitely a tougher dilemma than I thought after the last post.
>She also said she’d tell her daughter to “not take everything personally” if Janice said the same about her. She also said that Hanna “was probably looking at that stuff already”
This is so vile and callous… How can she do this?
And even if Hannah is looking at porn? How does that make janice’s post ok? It might even be worse bc she then knows what the aunt is trying to imply…
>I told her that I was reconsidering our engagement because she couldn’t see how Janice cyberbullying a 14 year old was wrong (on top of wanting to still invite her to the wedding).
>She said she’s not budging, and that’s her stance…
Lets put aside the issue with Janice for a bit..
These are 2 huge red flags by themselves in my opinion.
1st: She’s ignoring you. It’s like she doesn’t care at all that you are reconsidering the relationship due to this/her actions.
At least by your description it sounds like she waved it off as nothing… Seriously? Did I understood it wrong?
2nd: She’s deciding by herself without your Input and without viewing you as an equal partner that should have an equal say in the matter.
This is your wedding. Both of you. The fact that you can’t veto someone from the guest list is a hard pill to swallow by itself.
In a marriage you should be compromising, doing what *both* think it’s a good compromise and be willing to talk things through to get to a decision as a couple and present a united front to the world afterwards.
Instead she came with her decision and is basically telling you that you have no say on anything.
When someone shows you who they are, it’s best to believe them. ♥️
It seems like she is the type of person that believes because she suffered, so should others. If she’s not willing to seek therapy about whatever trauma Janice may have caused her and changing that mindset, I’m sorry but you really should break up.
The fact that she’s willing to die on such a stupid hill doesn’t bode well for any future you’d have with her. Like, she’s completely refusing to compromise. You let her know this issue is serious enough that you’re considering calling off the wedding, and she’s STILL unwilling to consider she may be in the wrong, or that you guys need to work something out together? Yikes, maybe you could try couples therapy, but if she refuses that as well, then she clearly doesn’t value your relationship enough to get married.
Hang in there man, I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’ll save you a lot of pain in the long run tho.
If you do end up ending it make sure you are clear it is because you think that when you have kids you dont feel she will adequately have their back, and it is not because of the little sister. That action just brought it to light.
I wouldnt want her to recieve the blame of breaking up the engagement.
She doesn’t care!! Anyway you look at it, she isn’t bothered by it, and therefore she doesn’t care about YOU!! She allowed a family member disrespect and degrade a 14 yr old!! NOT a one but you stood up to them! Your fiance just showed you what kind of person she is uncaring, selfish and self-centered!! Knowing ALL of this is she worth marrying? Is SHE worthy of your love? Is SHE worth it? After what I read NOT at all!! Good luck
She’s telling you that she was abused and lived thru it so now her sister should have to live thru it and her future children! I usually fall on the side of trying to work it out but I don’t see how this marriage happens and possibly the relationship as well.
Tell her the wedding is off, ask for the ring back. Let her know that the relationship is hanging by a thread. She needs to get counseling for her issues and then couples counseling. If she doesn’t agree, then end the relationship all together.
If that happens, make sure you go on Janice’s Facebook page and tell everyone the reason the wedding and relationship are done, because her family excuses her child abuse (mental).
She says her sister needs to grow a spine but honestly, she’s the one without one. She’s giant doormat who’s mad at other people for not being doormats.
If you have kids with her, I doubt she’d ever defend them from abuse, it they ever face it. Probably would sweep it under the rug. Why are you still sticking around?
Honestly, I’m with you. This would be a hill for me to die on too. Idc what you say about adults, but we’re discussing a literal CHILD. And NO. ONE. has an issue with her comments? Sorry, but I’d nope out of that family. Child are always ALWAYS *always* off limits. And if someone said that garbage about a family member of mine, I would go scorched earth. I think it speaks volumes that your own children wouldn’t be protected from this lunatic. I highly suggest walking away.
I don’t see a happy future for you two so I think you should cancel and break up. Not only is she okay with Janice’s behavior but she is doubling down by saying Janice is coming to YOUR wedding regardless of your thoughts or feelings are. I see her being a crappy mother and bully spouse.
Claire’s confusing growing a spine with her accepting abuse because people did not protect her. She’s disturbed by OP saying Janice’s behavior toward a child is wrong and abusive because it forces her to face the feelings she’s stuffed down.
Don’t back down on this, OP. You’re standing up for a child that no one else will protect.
Look, this isn’t about Janice. Not really. This is really about your gf not being willing to stand up against an a bully or her family even for the sake of her own new family or future family.
She is telling you that you don’t share the same values and morals and won’t do a damn thing to protect anyone just because of “drama”. It doesn’t matter if she went through it herself. She knows exactly how her sister feels and is choosing to turn a blind eye because “she had suck it up, so can her sister”. That’s not ok.
Better to know now and call not only the wedding but you’re relationship off and find someone who shares the same values as you.
The red flag is waving in your face! See it! Don’t ignore it.
This will be your life.
The scariest part of this is that she’s okay with her potential kids being treated like this. I’d think most parents have a strong protective instinct towards their children, so this is concerning.
This sort of normalized behavior leads to messed up families and lots of abuse – if other family members abuse your future kids I’m sure your fiancé’s family will just look the other way
Hey if you do call off this engagement, are you able to contact Hanna separately and make sure she knows it’s not her fault? They seem like the kind of family that are going to take this out on her.
First off – I’m sorry for everything you and Hanna are going through. It irritates the hell out of me when people don’t call family members out for being a$$holes to the rest of the world. When you don’t call people out for their crap and let them constantly get away with it this is what happens. To justify this by saying “well I had to deal with it too” is absolutely horrifying, and then to double down and say that if it was a kid of your own she would say the same thing – there is no way back from that. She gave you an answer loud and clear.
I wish I could say she could go to counseling, but I can guarantee you that she will not, because she doesn’t see this as a problem. Her family has demonstrated that their “fix” is to let Aunt Janice get away with whatever toxic garbage she chooses to spew. Tough it up and grow a spine, as she said.
You sound like a great person and I think you’ve been given a gift – a chance to look behind the curtain so to speak and see what the dynamic of your future in-laws is. It’s not a good sight. Just make sure when you go you are crystal clear on why a you are leaving – not just because of this one thing, but because of her justification of such toxic behavior and having no qualms with subjecting you and your potential children to it in the future.
They keep saying to have this woman there to “avoid drama”. She is the drama. Goodness.
I cut out all toxic family, and I literally live life with no stress and drama like this. Frustrating to hear this story and the people say they keep her in the family to avoid drama, when Janice is the drama. Omg.
Please stand your ground on this OP.
You have offered solutions to avoid drama and that family is doing everything they can to appease JUST ONE PERSON, on a day thats meant for you and your fiance.
It seems to be a given she(your fiancé) would allow this type of things to happen further down the line with your own kids as well from her responses.
Good luck OP
It’s probably been said dozens of times but she cares more about optics than she does about your opinion OR her sister.
I said it before and I’ll say it again. They’ll protect Janice no matter what she does to you or your children. Considering how often girls are sexually assaulted and abused this is not the type of reaction you want if you have children.
Run man run.
As a kid (now adult) who came from a similar family dynamic, it is so funny (/s) to me that the *kids* have to grow a spine to deal with the outright disgusting behavior of the adults, but the adults never need to grow a spine to stand up to it. Why does the 14 year old have to internalize aunt Janice, why can’t the parents tell auntie Janice to go fuck herself?
People like her do not make good parents. I am glad you are reconsidering the engagement and I hope that ultimately you do not marry her.
I will tell you why.
There’s a certain type of people who prefer to “settle” issues like this within families by ignoring them and/or “dealing with them as a family” or even have this “oh it’s just Janice being Janice” kind of attitudes.
To some people it may not seem like a big deal, but I personally see the flashing neon lights pointing at the red flag a mile away.
Unfortunately, as a child I was sexually abused for about 3 years by a relative (around the time I started pre-k to 1st/2nd grade). I didn’t tell anyone until I was a teenager. My family LOST THEIR MINDS. Said I was causing drama for no reason and that this “issue” could have been dealt with behind closed doors as a family. They said I should feel embarrassed about my behavior and should never have opened my mouth etc.
For years I internalized everything they said. As an adult I started going to therapy and at one point I did some group therapy… do you know how many children go through the exact same thing?!?! How many kids are told “well why would you be alone with him/her, you know better”, how many kids get raped and then still have to go the Christmas diner with their rapist because their parents want to “avoid drama”? I was so shocked at what I was hearing in therapy, that I asked my therapist how common it was, and she said “well, those are all unreported instances of rape/abuse so we don’t really know, but it is unfortunately rather common”
It’s disgusting and I’m convinced it’s people like your fiancé you do it.
Honestly i wouldnt get myself involved with a family like that. You bet your kids will face similar treatment and you will have nobody to stand by you.
>They also said she saw no fault in Janice’s actions because her family normalized it years ago.
Your parent is 100% correct.
Claire has totally normalized Janice’s actions due to not rocking the boat. This behavior is a learned behavior from the rest of her family and specifically her parents. In due time, Hanna probably would have similar perception as Claire because it looked like this type of bad behavior from Janice is accepted. They all just sweep under rug. Or just dismiss her, saying ‘Eh, that’s just Janice.’
Since you’re not going to reconcile over this, I’d suggest upon seeing this incompatibility, you probably should go your separate ways.
Tldr- Claire sucks 👎🏼
Are they hoping that if they don’t rock the boat and just ignore Janice and her comments that she’ll just stop making the comments? Cause if so it’s obviously not working at all (nor would it stop Janice by the sounds of things) so maybe it would be easier to just block and ignore her but obviously that would be smart.
As a side note I’d absolutely cancel my wedding if my partner ever said those things or wanted a person who says that crap at my wedding. I don’t care if anyone would say I’m overreacting or being dramatic as I myself have been assaulted in clothes that were not “asking for it” (**no clothes are asking for it**) and I would absolutely scorch the earth if someone said that to me or anyone I knew/cared about.