This question popped to my mind when I see that Bill Clinton is actually named William or that Joe Biden is named Joseph. I saw it was the case for many high profile politicians/celebrities to see their “nicknames” being used in very official contexts or on tv.
Do you call your new boss Joseph, Joe, right off the bat?
In French, I would never think of calling the president Emmanuel Macron “Manu” when talking to him or when mentioned in official context or on tv. In fact, when a kid told him “What’s up Manu” at a public gathering, he got a stern scolding by the president.
edit: some words
22 comments
I’m pretty sure this is not uniquely American.
> Do you call your new boss Joseph, Joe, right off the bat?
I go by their preference. If they sign their emails “Joe,” then I’ll call them Joe. In a work setting, it’s not uncommon to be asked (for example) “do you go by Mike or Michael?”
> In French, I would never think of calling the president Emmanuel Macron “Manu” when talking to him or when mentioned in official context or on tv.
I wouldn’t call the president by *any* first name. But if I did, it would be the one he publicly goes by. President Biden goes by “Joe,” so (if for some reason I was calling him by his first name), I’d call him Joe.
Okay either I’ve gone crazy or this *exact* thing was posted a couple weeks ago
We address people how they want to be addressed. If my boss introduced himself as Joe I’d call him Joe.
Of course you wouldn’t call him Manu, you’d call him Manny!
It’s extremely common. But you wouldn’t call someone a shortened name “right off the bat” unless they were introduced to you that way. If someone is introduced as Michael I’m going to call them Michael. If I learn some people call him Mike, I’ll ask him which he prefers. If he has no preference, I’ll use the one I’m most comfortable with, typically the shorter less formal of the two, Mike.
In a formal setting I wouldn’t call a politician their nickname. They’d be “Senator/Congressman/Governor LAST NAME”.
I would say for the most part using shortened names isn’t a formal/informal thing, just a preference thing. Like if my boss is a guy who goes by David, I’m going to call him David, but if his name is David and he goes by Dave, I’ll call him that.
It would be rude to call someone by a nickname if they don’t introduce themselves that way though.
>Bill Clinton
This is the name he goes by and prefers. It’s what’s he’s known as.
Usually that’s how it goes. Some people prefer to be called by the shorter version of their name. It’s not like people just pick that for you. If you introduce yourself as “Bob” and that’s what you go by, that’s what people call you.
And for some names it’s just really common to use the shortened version, like
William/Bill
Joseph/Joe
Matthew/Matt
Michael/Mike
Johnathan/John
Etc.
A lot of English names have common and well established shortened versions that people prefer. I don’t think there’s any specific reason for it other than we’re a bit more casual of a culture and certain names have very common nicknames.
We decide our own names here, and that preference supersedes whatever name your parents gave you when you were born.
If William chooses to call himself “Bill” then it would be rude to call him William.
Funnily enough though, my given name is Joshua and I *go by* Joshua, I introduce myself as Joshua, I write Joshua, etc… but 99% of people still call me “Josh” anyway. It’s actually pretty irritating tbh. So, I dunno.
If I was invite to speak with the president, I’d call him President Biden unless he invited me to call him Joe. Our society is casual enough that if I was speaking with him in the first place, that wouldn’t be surprising.
What would be absolutely astonishing would be if he asked me to call him Joseph, since that’s not the version of his name he normally uses.
Every boss I’ve ever had has introduced themselves to me by their first name, which is a crystal clear indication that that’s what to call them.
We are less formal than much of Europe, but it also varies regionally and socioeconomically.
I call my boss’ boss ‘Bill’ and not William because that’s how he introduced himself. I prefer my full name over the common nickname so that’s how I introduce myself, the vast majority understand that’s what I prefer to be called.
I wouldn’t call President Biden “Joe” to his face, but that’s more because I’m not on first name basis with him. If I were, I would call him Joe because that’s his name preference.
We got almost this exact question from some other European a few weeks ago.
In America, it’s pretty disrespectful not to call someone by their preferred name, whether it is a nickname or not. If Emmanuel Macron prefers to be called “Emmanuel,” I would call him that. If he prefers “Manu” or “Manny” or even “Stinky” I would call him that instead. Some people reserve nicknames only for close family and loved ones, but that is not the norm.
Is it just not common knowledge in Europe that “Bill” and “Joe” are short for “William” and “Joseph?” It’s not completely unheard of for a person’s given name to be a nickname (mine is, no I’m not telling) but pretty much any English speaker would know what their real names were.
Honestly, if you think that’s weird don’t go to other countries. Indonesian President Joko Widodo is almost universally known by the nickname “Jokowi;” Brazil’s old/new president-elect is known mononymously as “Lula.”
I go by what the person likes to be called. I generally go by my long name but my family uses my nickname.
My sisters and brother go by their nicknames in any situation where someone uses their first name.
My boss uses her nickname, but her boss uses her full first name.
I have another coworker that uses his middle name. He is a junior, as in has his dad’s same first name so he grew up using his middle name to have it be unique. But he uses a nickname for his middle name.
Example:
dad – Jonathan Robert Smith
Son – Jonathan Michael Smith
The son goes by Mike or Michael but usually Mike amongst people he knows well. The dad is Jon.
Q: What happens when a shitload of Brits named William move to the hills of the Appalachians?
A: Hillbillies
If someone named Macron introduced themselves as Manu, what would you do, OP?
That’s just English. Abbreviated names are common and usually it’s best to call people by their preferred name.
However, if I were to actually meet the president I’d call him Mister President or President Biden or whatever until he said otherwise.
Why waste time say big word when small word do trick?
In all seriousness, diminutives *eg* Jim and nicknames *eg* Red are simply a part of American English. We don’t like to stand on ceremony or rigid formality unless it’s a special circumstance *eg* swearing into some office such as that of POTUS.
We all know his name is Joseph, but “Joe” is more down to earth and relatable.
In the US it’s considered very rude to correct someone’s name. You follow their own preference and their own pronunciation of their own name.
If someone introduces themselves to me as “Bobby,” I call them “Bobby,” not “Robert.” To call them Robert *afte*r they’ve introduced themselves as Bobby would be considered really rude. But the same thing goes the other way. If someone calls themselves “Robert” I don’t call them “Bobby” unasked. That is also considered quite rude.
Basically you follow each individual’s preference. Politicians often like to use nicknames to pretend they’re ‘one of the people.’ It became popular with Jimmy Carter. But he was Southern, where men I think more typically use nicknames (?). But after him, most presidents and politicians called themselves reliably by a hokey first-name nickname, whether they’d used it all their lives, or made it up for politics.
We’d never call someone by their nicknames unasked, but we’d also never call them by their first names unasked. if there’s a doubt, with strangers, we ask outright;” “What would you prefer I call you?”
So to answer your question, I think you misunderstand the etiquette here. No one would dream of walking up privately to the president in the Oval Office and saying, “Hi Joe!” Maybe calling out his name in a crowd would be ok, but that’s also because he himself uses “joe.”
I would never dream of calling my boss by their first name much less their nickname unasked. That would be beyond rude and presumptuous. But if they indtroduced themselves to me, and said, “Hi, I’m Susan,” I’d either call them “Susan” as they clearly indicated, or, if it felt too awkward to call my boss her first name immediately, I’d probably just ask outright how they prefer I call them. It’s a normal question, and signals you want to be considerate of their preference.
You just have to look across the channel to see this isn’t an American thing uniquely.
If Emmanuel Macron asked you to call him “Manu”, would you? In most cases (but not all, of course), the shortened name is preferred by that person. It’s (generally) not a case of people just randomly calling someone by a shortened name or nickname (these are two different things, for what it’s worth)
I _greatly_ dislike my full name. I go by a shortened version that just drops the last two letters, and I have since I was 3 or 4 years old. I specifically ask people not call me by the long version. I am personally annoyed by people who use the long version and correct them when they do. So of course people call me by the name I want to go by.
It’s not just Americans. The former British Prime Minister was named Liz Truss. Liz is short for Elizabeth. The British Prime Minister of the late 90s/early 2000s is always called Tony Blair rather than Anthony Blair.
We’re just an informal people, although we’re not as informal as Australians.
I call people what the introduce themselves as, generally. If that’s technically a nickname then that’s what I call them. My friends tend to have some sort of nickname develop over time. My friend Theodore goes by Theo with most people but I call him Thee a lot, which most other people don’t seem to. I have several friends named Chris so we have taken to coming up with other nicknames for them to avoid confusion, often variations on their last name.