I had a first date earlier this week and overall I feel like it was a good one. More pros than cons, but the biggest con is one I keep thinking about.
I don’t like to kiss on the first date. Even if I’m really feeling the guy, there’s a good vibe, I just don’t like it. I don’t know someone well enough after one date to want to kiss them, that’s just how I am.
At the end of the date, we went in for a hug, he went in for a kiss, I tried to dodge, but he was determined and kissed me anyways. It was awkward, but I’m trying not to hold it against him because the rest of the date was good.
We talked about a second date and I’m just trying to decide how many dates there should be before I make a call one way or the other. I don’t want to waste his time (or mine).
My therapist has told me that two dates aren’t enough to really get to know a person, especially if I’m only seeing them in one context (like multiple dates at a bar or restaurant) and that if I like someone at all I should give them more of a chance.
I guess I’m just worried that I may cut someone off too soon and self sabotage. I really do want to find love and partnership, and I want to make sure I give someone who is expressing interest a fair chance to let something develop.
So I’m just curious to know what other people are using as a benchmark. Three dates? Four dates? In the absence of obvious dealbreakers, how long do you see someone to decide if there’s enough potential to pursue something more?
Edit: To be fair I think I should add some more detail about the kiss. I didn’t explicitly state a boundary about kissing/not kissing. The dodge was subtle I think, and I did kind of turn my head in a way that I can see how it could have seemed like a natural opportunity to him. On the other hand the moment was awkward enough that I was kind of surprised that he continued to follow through.
30 comments
Time spent is more important than number of dates.
I knew with L after date 2 that this was the real deal, but that was something like 15-16 hours of intense conversation, hiking, fun at the bar, a little making out, and sharing a meal together.
I’m also very quick to fall for someone when it feels right, and very quick to share those feelings, which moves things along (or stops them entirely) pretty quick.
At maximum, I would give it three dates. I’ve been on the fence til this point and then enthusiastically found that my feelings grew. Anything past this point seems like too much investment for something meh and potentially wastes a lot of both people’s time.
There’s not really a benchmark or a recipe. My suggestion is to look at it from a different perspective instead of looking for a lover immediately. Feel it out if you two can be friends first with a potential that can blossom into something greater later down the line. What you’re looking for in the beginning is the connection do you two vibe well together?
I like to give it two, sometimes three.
But if I get kissed, touched sexually, etc. without my consent, he’s not getting a second one.
I disagree with your therapist; two dates can be enough to know if you’re going to match with the person. You don’t need any particular reason to not go on another date, and nonconsensual kissing is certainly a good enough reason not to.
I usually give it 2-3 dates. I used to just base it off one date but have found that wasn’t exactly fair. That being said ANY non-consensual contact or kissing is an absolute no. Sorry you had to deal with that
I don’t know if there’s a specific number. I mean, sometimes you know right away that there’s no chemistry and it’s just not gonna work, and sometimes you have an immediate connection and wanna keep things going. Other times, maybe you grow on each other a little bit, or maybe you get along but realize you’re better as friends. For instance, my ex-wife and I were friends for a while before we started dating, and even though we had fun together and I was really attracted to her (she’s objectively gorgeous), we figured out during the post-divorce autopsy that our relationship was always at its best when we were friends rather than anything more. On the other hand, with my current girlfriend (now fiancé, actually), we both just *knew* immediately. From the second I held her hand after dinner, it was just magic. I guess the point is that there’s no foolproof formula, but if you like the guy (and it sounds like you do), my advice would be to keep things going until you figure it out one way or another.
I have a three date rule IF there are no huge red flags
You tried to dodge a kiss and he ignored it and kissed you anyway—this is a red flag and no wonder you can’t stop thinking about it.
This isn’t about you waiting for your feelings/connection to grow with someone you aren’t feeling a spark with. This is you wondering if this clear crossing of your boundaries was a one-off accident or part of a larger pattern of behavior.
Your therapist doesn’t have any business telling you how long it takes to decide how you feel about someone. That’s for you to decide. It’s her job to help you understand what you need to make that decision, not to convince you to ignore your feelings.
Listen to your instincts. It’s weird to me that he didn’t pick up on your lack of consent with the kiss. You don’t ever have to see him again if you don’t want to because you’re the driver of your dating life.
If you’re wanting to give him another chance, I strongly recommend telling him you weren’t comfortable with that kiss. How he responds is a much better view of his character. He should be concerned for how you felt, apologize, and then not make the same mistake again. If he gets mad, he’s a bad egg. If he apologizes at first but then later gets you to question yourself, he’s likely a manipulator. If he goes in for a kiss on the next date without caring about your reaction, run.
I don’t have any set number. Most of my first dates I choose not to see again though.
If I’m excited to keep seeing someone and there’s no clear danger signs, I’ll keep seeing them.
IMO a non consensual kiss is a danger sign. An awkward miss kiss situation where they apologize would be OK.
Was that your first date with him? How did you feel about him overall?
I also have preferences on when I kiss someone. But I do have “exceptions” to the “rules” which are based on how I feel in the moment.
I did not kiss my fiancé on our first date. He was so hot and I was very interested in him but the moment wasn’t there and I don’t like kissing strangers lol. I don’t sleep with people quickly either. Yet on our third date I definitely did kiss and sleep with him and I had no regrets or hesitation. I was excited and really over the moon that we did get to that point.
If you’re not sure how you feel, I wonder if the issue is that you don’t trust yourself? I think reading your post it’s clear you’re not comfortable. But I wonder if we can zoom in and figure out exactly why? Was it because you wanted to keep to the rule? Was it because you feel like you wanted to say no? Was it because you don’t like him enough for you to go against your own rules AND you couldn’t say no?
In my opinion, not going on a second date would not be self sabotage. You don’t know him well enough to “sabotage” anything, he is a stranger still. You either want more or you don’t! Trust your gut here. If you want to see him again, go for it! Just make sure that if you see him again you practice saying no to things you aren’t comfortable with.
I may or may not go in for a kiss on the first date, but I have never misread my date to the point she had to dodge me!
How embarrassing! (And uncomfortable for you)
I can see why you wouldn’t want to see him again. Is he clueless? Or does he just not give a shit? Either way, is that what you want in a man?
2-3
My personal rule of thumb is if you can’t picture kissing them after a first date, don’t go on a second date. Takes care of the simplest barrier of if you’re physically attracted to them.
After that, if the idea of spending the night with them, even if it’s non-sexual and just cuddling, isn’t appealing by at least the third or fourth date, probably best to cut them loose.
I have to emphasize that you don’t have to kiss or sleep with someone earlier than you want to, but if this is someone you’re really trying to give an honest shot to, it should be something you should be thinking about.
Some people are hell no’s right away so basically one date and decision is made.
Others need a couple more dates for you to decide.
I’ve been in the awkward kissing situation where its a not yet but maybe not clear from body language and the best thing is just to use your words for both parties. “Hey I don’t feel comfortable yet” and “is it okay if I give you a kiss on the cheek” are both acceptable lines for either party at such an early stage
Not me, but I sound like the guy in this story. Incidentally my first date was also last week, though I’m pretty sure it’s not you lol.
Walked her to the car, we hugged, then she looked at me for a second like a pause, and I went for it. Just a peck, but it has been eating at me since I did it as it was just a first date.
It’s scary how similar this situation is to mine but in the perspective of the woman.
This happened to me where I was feeling a slight connection on the first date but wasn’t ready for a kiss and the guy awkwardly kissed me anyway despite my attempt at a dodge. I foolishly gave him the benefit of the doubt but he continued to act clueless in the future in order to get what he wanted. It says a lot about a person if they are choosing to disregard a dodge. Trust me, he knew.
I don’t go on second dates unless I’m enthusiastic. I don’t need or have the time to get to know someone that I’m not enthusiastic about on the surface level first.
Is it possible that some first dates could have evolved into a relationship if I kept trying despite my initial instinct? Maybe. But time spent experimenting with more and more dates is time I’m not spending meeting people I’m enthusiastic about seeing again.
YMMV. I can see some merit in giving it more time to correct a specific dating behavior you don’t like about yourself if you’re finding the people you naturally pursue are the wrong ones.
2 IMO
>My therapist has told me that two dates aren’t enough to really get to know a person
I mean that’s true. But 2 dates, or even less, can be enough to determine if you want to really get to know a person. I think you should be asking yourself if you want to know this person better.
Personally (33m) I tend to know after the first date whether i want to continue dating them or not. Sometimes i’m on the fence and will do a second one, but if after the second date it’s not a “hell yes”, then it’s a “hell no” and I move on.
You should try openly communicating with him and saying “hey I like you and I’d like to go on more dates with you but I don’t feel comfortable with kissing in the early dating phase. Can we just do hugs and hand holding for the first few dates and see where it goes from there?”
If he’s genuinely digging you then he will respect that boundary. If he’s just looking for a quick lay then he’ll probably ghost you in which case you’re dodging a bullet. There is a third option which is that he may be insecure and even with you assuring him that you would like to continue dating he might take it as you trying to friend zone him or lead him on and that might scare him away. That third option really sucks but there’s nothing you can do about it, you don’t have an obligation to step out of your comfort zone in order to accommodate someone else’s insecurity.
But yeah, as is almost always the case, communication is key. Don’t be afraid to politely but explicitly tell men what your boundaries are. It’s actually really helpful for us, because then we don’t have to guess.
How quickly do you form friendships? Especially your closest friends. Obviously everyone is different, but I will know almost immediately if the initial signs are there. The going in for a kiss is a bit of a red flag, especially because he totally misread the situation. You should let him know how that made you feel and if he’s apologetic and gives reasons why he jumped the gun then I wouldn’t stop that from seeing him again
You can test people out quickly by seeing how they respond to conflict. Example: say something that they may disagree with (I’d avoid politics and major issues) to see how they handle a disagreement and how they express themselves.
As a guy something I’ve been told as well as noticed with women is that if a guy doesn’t show that he has the confidence to make a move the woman will often dismiss the man of future contact.
Also, if a guy asks or says he wants to kiss a women at the end of the date it’s often seen as weak and again the woman will discontinue contact. Please note I am not stating you need to change anything, you’re fine. Just wanted to share something men constantly deal with and why we often don’t know what the hell to do most of the time.
I had an LTR that ended up happening pretty much after the first two dates (no sex on the first one) and there wasn’t really much hesitancy or questions between us around compatibility.
A more recent relationship was 4-5 dates in and I felt like I knew about as much as I did on the first date, but then soon after things started speeding up and we both really liked each other obviously. I don’t think there’s a specific number, but it’s probably between 1-10 depending on the people, and what point in their lives they are in. Keep in mind getting older, and more dating experience, means you’re more likely to know your gatekeeping red flags and positive traits so you can skip the 3-4 months of “sort of dating” only to realize there are major blockers which would prevent any LTR from succeeding.
I don’t think it’s the number of dates but the quality of the time spent on the dates.
From a straight guy’s perspective, I would advise that if you do give him another chance, to make it a point at some moment in the date when you’re both relaxed enough, to bring up the weirdness of the kiss / breaching of the physical boundary. You can do it lightly with a smile, and without judgment, to see how he responds. There’s no way he didn’t register your dodge – we are hyperattuned in these heightened moments to “does she/doesn’t she want to”, so he made a conscious decision – maybe it was to avoid embarrassment, whatever, but he pressed go when he could have pressed pause.
Your objective is to see how he responds to feedback that he violated a boundary of yours. If he’s defensive or even aggressive, well, I’d just close up shop & be glad you dodged a bullet.