Hey everyone! I want to learn how to be “flirty”. This comes from seeing the differences in how me and another guy in my circle (I’ll call him J) end up relationship wise with the girls we meet. J often ends up having casual hookups or at the very least explorations of romantic/sexual tension, while I often end up making good friends but with people I might’ve liked to explore the above with.
I’m gonna assume J and I are roughly equal physical attractiveness wise for science, as I do think it’s mainly how we present ourselves and communicate that is different. I think J is “flirty” while I am “neutral nice”. Ill give 3 examples.
1. A girl in our group finishes playing a song on the guitar. J and I would probably both say “wow, that was really nice”, but I might say nothing more or “you must have worked hard on that piece” while J would say “you’ve got me fired up to match that” before asking for the guitar to play something himself.
2. A girl might come to sit down on the couch where we all are to watch a movie. I would probably go out of my way to move over enough that she has space without having to squish, while J would beam and say “aw come on here already” before half cuddling the girl.
3. A girl might come into a bar and vent about a long day at work. I might say “wow yeah, that sounds shit. I can’t believe X did that” while J would say “hmm..sounds like you need maybe sort of relaxing beverage?” while cheekily sliding a beer to the person.
For lack of a better explanation, I think I’m being very “neutral” in these situations, mainly out of not wanting to impose on the girl both from fear of being creepy/annoying and genuinely wanting to respect their space/agency. However, I’m starting to think J isn’t actually disrespecting anyones space or making them uncomfortable: the fact that it seems like it genuinely hasn’t crossed his mind that what he says or does is anything besides fun and light makes it so it IS fun and light.
Am I right on there being a difference here? How could I move towards J’s behaviour without thinking I seem completely stupid or cocky?
19 comments
Sounds like you basically answered your own question with the 3 points (as examples).
>I’m starting to think J isn’t actually disrespecting anyones space or making them uncomfortable
Right.
Based on what you wrote it sounds like you know what to do, you’re just apprehensive about doing it. You have to get over that.
He turns attention to himself, which isn’t entirely a bad thing in moderated amounts when forming connections. This can fail with some people, but it also really works with others. So… That’s the trick. You’re being very accommodating and reflective, and he’s being inviting and charismatic. Inviting people to form a connection and sharing your personality/talents draw people in.
What you’re doing will still be appreciated by the right people, just maybe not for hookup culture.
It’s important to watch for and respond to nonverbal cues. There are some guys who are really inappropriate with humor and are “jokingly” flirty and touchy. The thing is, most people do like it.
I only have a problem with them once I’ve done everything I could think of to gently express that I really don’t like it.
If I don’t like it, I’ll move away, or not laugh at a joke. Ideally I would be able to shut them down just as playfully.
Try being more playful in general. Just be sure to read for the right reaction.
As a thought, it might be easier for your friend’s advances to be appreciated when you’re there providing a sort of neutral safety friendship.
You are creating an “internal invoice”, in which you mentally calculate everything you did that obligates the object of your desire to “owe” you a debt of gratitude which *they couldn’t possibly decline or prevent.* J isn’t acting a certain way with the expectation of a hookup, it’s a natural result of easy rapport. Whereas you have ascribed high value to your hypothetical actions and are disappointed when women irl disagree with your valuation. It hasn’t crossed J’s mind that what he’s doing is anything other than light and fun because he isn’t assigning value to his actions, he’s literally just having fun.
I had a whole essay written out about the ethics of being J vs succeeding in our modern dating world, but I don’t want to make you think too much about this.
Basically you just need more self confidence. If you see yourself as someone women want to be with, you’ll start to act like J. J has a high level of self confidence/entitledness such that he does whatever he wants without thinking about whether his actions are appropriate. Ignoring the ethics of this….this is basically boundary pushing, and is one of the main tenants of flirtation and also what people who are considered “fun” are like.
So basically, just consider what about you makes you great, and internalize that when talking to others. You _already have_ a high level of consideration for others feelings, so I don’t really think you have to worry about being cocky right now. Just work on feeling confident in yourself.
The key is to go for what you want while being okay with failing. For example with the couch scenario, you invite her right next to you, but if you notice she’s hesitant, defuse the situation by sniffing your armpit and going “on second thought, you shouldn’t” and then move over so she has enough space. Tension out of the air. It’s only creepy/annoying/disrespecting their space if you can’t handle a no gracefully.
A more general mindset that also helps with this is that you should approach social interactions with the primary goal to have fun yourself, do things that you find entertaining/enjoyable, and if someone else happens to share your fun, that’s a bonus and a good sign to further develop a bond with that person (in this case sexually/romantically).
This is kinda the paradox you allude to, if you primarily care about having fun yourself you will come across as more charismatic and others will be having more fun with you than if you were actually trying to entertain then primarily.
I think it’s important to know- in these scenarios, are you actually interested in the girl or interested in hooking up? I’m a female, but I noticed that I act like you a lot- try to be polite and repsect people’s space. However I tend to be drawn to people who- as another commenter mentioned- invite me in. I have historically not been comfortable welcoming people into my life, which leads to this behavior- are you the same? If you shift your mindset about inviting people into your life instead of waiting for them to be interested on their own, you might have more success.
>I think I’m being very “neutral” in these situations, mainly out of not wanting to impose on the girl both from fear of being creepy/annoying and genuinely wanting to respect their space/agency.
I struggle with this too sometimes, but something to remember is being creepy/annoying tends to be attached to someone as a label after they ignore initial “no’s”. There’s nothing wrong with being a bit flirty, but see how they react to that before continuing onward. As long as J doesn’t keep pestering them if they say no, he isn’t being creepy.
I read somewhere recently that to flirt and to make friends, you have act as though people like you and will be receptive to what you’re saying. Make the comment or invitation with confidence because you already believe they will say yes.
He just uses his charisma differently than you. You are clearly worried about always being respectful – even with lady friends you already know who are already comfortable with. J is not burdened by such worries.
Maybe relax a little if there’s a lass you like
Come off as stupid and cocky. Gurls love that. Stop trying to look “cool” Just be a boy. Stop being a butler. Gurls loves boys
Breh, I’ve never related to a post so closely. The comments r very helpful. Thanks pastapuncher
How to be neutrally nice instead of flirty is what I need.
Try to turn up **your** personality rather than emulating someone else. Smile more and make more eye contact — these are easy ways of drawing people in. Take it slow and pay attention to reactions. Increase the flirting when you are getting positive feedback, but take it in stages. This will keep you from being a creep. HAVE FUN!!! (source: a naturally flirty woman who loves to flirt but also haaaates creeps)
What’s important here is after you do something flirty, if the person doesn’t reciprocate or seem like they enjoyed it, you stop. J gets positive responses so it’s okay. If he didn’t, then he would come off as creepy. It’s all about how the other person responds to you. Are you respecting boundaries? Focus on identifying rejection signs vs consent signs.
Honestly the “neutral” things you’re doing could be just as flirty with the right tone and style. And I personally would probably find J mildly annoying, unless he’s just charismatic enough to make it less noticeable that in 2 scenarios he’s making it all about him and in the 3rd he’s acting like he’s trying to get her drunk (creepy).
The tone and style you’re looking for can be summed up with one easy to remember word: “inviting”. Let’s tweak your examples:
1. After saying “you must have worked really hard on that piece” *invite* her to play another one or to talk about what went into learning the piece.
2. Move over to make space for her, but also make a point of *inviting* her to sit next to you. Something like “There’s plenty of room here next to me” as you’re making the space for her.
3. Your initial response is actually wonderful. You can go in all kinds of directions from there. You can invite her to share more by either giving her a cue that she can vent more if she wants, or asking her questions that redirect her into sharing more positive aspects of her job. Something like “What is it about your job that makes it worth putting up with that? ” Or you could take J’s lead in a less creepy way by saying something like “What fun thing should we do to get your mind off of things? I want you to have fun tonight” (Ok the way I worded it sounds lame but you get the idea)
Do you see what I mean? You’re already a considerate person. But I think the piece that’s missing is showing your interest. Everything you’re doing is great but it could easily be read as “just being nice” or as an act of friendship vs romantic interest.
By actively inviting them to open up to you and share your space with them you’re letting them know you’re interested. I think that’s all you need to start getting into beginner level flirtiness.
I feel like a lot of it comes down to eye contact. Make direct eye contact while saying nice things and smile. Show in your eyes you admire them!
This is so funny because I struggle with the exact same problem. I will read every single response to the thread and see if I can fix it.
your friend might be a natural, you can pick up a lot of these stuff from books man, it all comes down in the end to practice and awareness of the situation but books literally called how to flirt or how to seduce women can give you a good start on this sort of flirty behavior, which is key when arousing women and projecting as being interested in something more than a friendship, it’s pretty hard imo but any skill can be learnt with massive amounts of repetition lol