TL;DR : I am an atheist, she is a believer and follows a set of rules. Both divorced, both want kids, both happy to have found someone who is serious about having a family. Moral compasses align really well. However, she said she wouldn’t want to have kids before getting married (I didn’t plan on getting married again but will if I had to), and she would have to get married before living with someone – to which I said I would absolutely not marry someone that I haven’t lived with. She will have a thought about this. Are we incompatible, or is this a simple compromise? End of TL;DR.
I (37M) have been dating this girl (35F) for about two months. We are both looking for a serious relationship, and both keen on having kids (we both don’t have any, not by choice but due to always ending up with the wrong people). On paper it looks like a good match, and we are basically what the other has been looking for in terms of family plans. Other aspects are working out as well, for the most part. We’re cool.
She happens to be the first religious person I ever date – I knew I wouldn’t want to date one because it would make things complicated, but she is very cool about everything. She says that her faith is among the most important things in her life, and a very strong component of her personality. But for some reason I don’t have an issue with this, despite being a firm atheist.
About a week ago, she casually mentioned two things (tied to her religion’s rules) that really got me thinking:
1. She would not have kids with someone she is not married to
2. She would not move in with a man she is not married to
She got married over 10 years ago to an atheist, it lasted for a few years, he ended up not wanting kids (probably never did). I did the same, but it lasted much longer, and divorced because she ended up not wanting kids. It was a long time ago for me, and this experience taught me that marriage is not as great as I thought (while being costly to do and undo) and as a result I do not want to ever get married again.
So I thought about this for a week, and we had a talk yesterday about her two conditions. To which I came up with my side of things:
1. I do not ever want to get married again, *but I would go through with it if it was inevitable*
2. It is 2023 and there is no way in hell that I am getting married to someone I never lived with
Both shocked her. I reassured her that getting married was not out of the realm of possibility; I’d do it for the right person, even though I’d be happier not getting married.
But the second one I will absolutely not budge from. However, it clearly put her in a very difficult position and she started crying. I told her that she was already pick-and-choose with her religion because she was having sex with someone she wasn’t married to – an obviously big no-no in most religions anyway.
I told her that she didn’t have to come up with answers on the spot, as I took as week to come up with my counter-proposals. I will give her as much time as she needs, but she will have to eventually let me know if we have a future.
She said that she was not expecting me to ask her to think this far ahead, but I replied that it’s a discussion better had 2 months in than 2 years in, especially at our age. She kinda blamed me for making her go against her faith (which is technically wrong, I asked her to break rule number 2 *in the future* should our relationship even last this long)
Was I wrong for asking her to come up with a compromise now, and that compromise necessarily breaking a rule of her religion?
Note that I understand how she could feel that there is not guarantee I’ll marry her after we live together, so it would be a big leap of faith to go against her… well, faith. Maybe that’s where she’d need some reinsurance. If I say I’ll do something, I make it happen.
31 comments
Imagine the fun you’re going to have once you have kids! If sticking to the rules of her religion is important to her then you need to be ok with raising your kids under that religion’s code. If not you’ll spend your life doing what you’re doing right now…
If you purposefully ignore some of the biggest points of incompatibility between you, do they go away? Will burying your head in the sand make issues cease to exist? No. They remain until addressed and dealt with or otherwise bring about a less than pleasant conclusion.
>I am an atheist, she is a believer
Then this relationship has no future anyway.
>Are we incompatible
Yup. totally. You both want totally reasonable things but you can’t have both.
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Live together first or marry first. You both want totally reasonable things but you can’t have both.
>two months
oh for ffs. you dated and now you know you’re incompatible so move on. Don’t jump through hoops for a TWO MONTH relationship
>I knew I wouldn’t want to date one because it would make things complicated
correct. and yet here you are. and Lo and Behold! It’s too complicated
>She says that her faith is among the most important things in her life, and a very strong component of her personality. But for some reason I don’t have an issue with this, despite being a firm atheist.
If you’ll never share her faith you are wasting her time. Stop wasting her time.
You go on about wanting kids. You really think a fervent believer and a firm atheist can find a way to raise kids without conflict? Each will be compelled to teach the kids that the other parent is delusionally or soul-imperrillingly full of shit. And don’t imagine the “we’ll teach both and let them decide when old enough” BS, that never works.
>this experience taught me that marriage is not as great as I thought (while being costly to do and undo) and as a result I do not want to ever get married again.
Fine. A narrow view, not all marriages fail, but if that’s what you feel then YOU ARE WASTING HER TIME
>I do not ever want to get married again, but I would go through with it if it was inevitable
so romantic, how can a girl refuse
>It is 2023
whereas you view her beliefs as outdated, how insulting
>and there is no way in hell that I am getting married to someone I never lived with
THEN YOU ARE WASTING HER TIME AND YOURS
>I told her that she was already pick-and-choose with her religion because she was having sex with someone she wasn’t married to – an obviously big no-no in most religions anyway.
Wow. However true that may be, that’s wildly insulting and condescending. You showed her that you don’t respect her beliefs. I can’t believe she didnt dump you on the spot.
YOU ARE WASTING HER TIME
>I told her that she didn’t have to come up with answers on the spot, as I took as week to come up with my counter-proposals. I will give her as much time as she needs, but she will have to eventually let me know if we have a future.
So you gave her a *whole week* to decide if she’ll throw over a lifetime of morals and decide on her entire future? So generous. ffs.
She said that she was not expecting me to ask her to think this far ahead, but I replied that it’s a discussion better had 2 months in than 2 years in, especially at our age. She kinda blamed me for making her go against her faith (which is technically wrong, I asked her to break rule number 2 in the future should our relationship even last this long)
END THIS NONSENSE and STOP BULLYING HER TO GET WHAT YOU WANT
Get out of her life with your patronising “I know better” attitudes. Go find someone even slightly compatible.
living together really lets you see how you Mesh 24/7 with that person.
From one atheist to another, dude… If you’re already having problems with her religion two months in, are you really considering having a future with her ?
Let it go, you’ll find another. Wanting to marry before even living together ? Lol, heck no, but that’s just the first of a myriad of problems ahead.
Just end things and look for someone else.
Dude you’ve been together for TWO MONTHS and you’re fundamentally incompatible. Are you aiming for another divorce?
You can ask. But she doesn’t have to break her life rules for you.
Breaking your religious rules is not a simple compromise.
If one of you does not want to compromise. Then yes, you are incompatible.
You weren’t wrong by setting out your non-negotiables. Nor is she for having her own non-negotiables. And you’re quite right to tackle this one now, because tbh it sounds like breakup material.
Also, if she’s saying that having sex with you is AOK but moving in is not, are you sure that’s her religion’s rules? I am not aware of any religion that says premarital sex is great but cohabitation is a sin. If she’s ready to bonk you but not live with you, then we’re not actually talking about what she does, but rather *what other people find out about*, which is an entirely different can of worms. (eg if she has a community or family that she doesn’t want to lose face in front of, are you going to be expected to adhere to the appearances of her faith?)
I think you need to dig into this one a bit more to see how she’d expect a relationship with an atheist to go and how many compromises she’d need you to make. You are absolutely doing the right thing by raising it though. It’s not giving ultimatums, it’s assessing compatibility.
Did she even saying married before living together is a religious rule of hers? Or just a personal rule.
I definitely think living together is a good and needed thing, trial.
But i do acknowledge that some do not want to upheave their living until they get married, having nothing to do with religion
Are your future children going to be raised religious or atheist?
You guys have only been dating a few months. If you are both eager to get going on family making, then be very deliberate with your conversations. Ask a fuck load of questions (especially pertaining to raising kids and how she sees that with her religion) and do counseling. Pre-marital counseling or counseling around family planning isn’t uncommon. You’ve clearly made a lot of assumptions about what she wants which I don’t think jive at all with what a religious person would want. I mean, just based on faith that I could have guessed she wanted marriage and likely wouldn’t want to live with you. Don’t assume. Instead ask very clear and deliberate questions. Also, just because you don’t get married doesn’t mean you aren’t on the hook financially if you have kids together.
Two months in and you have run into a fundamental inconpatability
I’m an atheist as well and I’m definitely with her on the marriage before children. It’s just a safe way to keep your kids safe and your partner in case something happens. Now living together before marriage is something I also believe in because how the hell else are you supposed to know somebody but I guess this is where compromise has to come in. You have to respect her religious views when one of them is really a rule alot of people have regardless of religion. It sounds like you two are not compatible. How would raising kids work if one of you says god is real and the other tells the kid that’s not true. Plus it’s only been two months and you’re already at a crossroads
You weren’t wrong to ask your GF to compromise, but she isn’t wrong to decide she isn’t willing to go against her faith and live with you prior to marriage. Unless she ultimately decides she’s happy to live with you before marriage or you’re both okay with some loophole situation like living together on weekends, I think you two are incompatible. I also think this stuff will keep coming up. What happens when GF wants to get married in a church, do religious premarital counseling, baptize kids, go to church as a family, etc.?
Religion aside, you two seem to have fundamentally incompatible life philosophies. Regarding marriage, she wants the legal and social formality and protection of marriage before committing to sharing finances, living space, or children. You want to dabble in those things together before committing to a marriage. You’ve dated for two months and learned these things about each other, now it’s time to let each other go and find more compatible partners.
**two months**
( O_ O )
It’s only been two months, dating is for finding these sorts of problems before you commit to something longer term.
You have a basic mutual exclusion in what you both want , so it’s a deal breaker if someone doesn’t change.
Just end the relationship now if there is no compromise on her part , since you’ve already stated that you would not compromise about it.
Sounds incompatible.
I, too, would never marry someone I hadn’t lived with. But maybe she never wants to get married or live with anyone again? So, if you do eventually then I would just nip it in the bud.
This seems like a good point in your relationship to realize that what you two want is incompatible, and that you would be better going your separate ways.
Do yourself a favor and end this asap cause it has no future.
Two months and she’s already given you a hard limit on something you feel is important? Sounds like her religion is more important than her relationship, and I’d GFTO.
**This post screams of fundamental incompatibility.**
She is making her religious views and rules clear and you, instead of accepting those things about her, want to CHANGE her. Question, why aren’t you the one who has to change? This is a double standard, and either way it comes out, someone “gets the short end of the stick.”
I am a religious person myself and living with the person before marriage is forbidden. But having been through a divorce once because living with the my husband showed me we were not compatible. So I will never make the same mistake of getting married to someone I have not lived with. I think its an outdated rule.
And to be honest, if she is already having sex before marriage, I really don’t understand the reason she is not willing to break the rule of living together. It does not make sense.
Good thing it’s only been two months, eh?
You’re technically right. The whole “don’t live together” is euphemism for “don’t have sex”. You’ll never explain this to her though. She’s made peace with this bit of hypocrisy & toeing that line makes her feel aligned with her faith.
would you be okay with her raising your kids to be religious?
how much would her religion influence the life of your kids? what will they be allowed/not allowed to do? is she going to be insane once they’re old enough to start dating?
Cut it off, not compatible. The clock is putting so much pressure on both of you that y’all are considering ignoring legit beliefs.
This just doesn’t seem like a match. I feel like even if you two did get married and have kids – there would be too much weirdness and mismatched values around raising them.
Question: Is the main reason that you think this relationship is going to work just because you both want kids?
If religion is a problem now it’s going to be a problem later. What happens when you have kids and she insists on bringing them to church or sending them to religious schools. Conversations better to be had it two months than two years.
That being said, I think you are absolutely right that you should live with someone before getting married. Maybe set up some kind of timeframe where once you are engaged, you live together for a period of time before actually getting married.
You guys are two months in.You should both walk away for your own peace of mind.You both seem to be reacting to past relationships instead of living in this one (as much wishful thinking as this one is).
If you guys somehow make it through the courtship and wedding – then have children, know that the children will be raised in a religious household. They will be indoctrinated from the jump and will have no say in it.
You are making her cry with ultimatums already re: living together.
And your “compromise” for marriage iis “but I would go through with it if it was inevitable”.
You are right, better now – two months in, than 2 years down the road.