Regarding the recent firing of a university professor for showing a painting of Muhammad, which do you think is more important: respecting the religious beliefs of students, or having academic freedom? Why?

50 comments

  2. Academic freedom.

    And you 100% know this would play out differently if the student was Catholic or Jewish or Mormon.

  3. Academic freedom and expression should always be more important, but these days there’s certain things you just can’t say.

  5. Respecting religion and freedom of religion are different thing. Muslims are not entitled in any way to having non-Muslims follow their rules.

    You will notice that the idea of treating Christians with such care is laughable to basically everyone in this country. The problem that a lot of people have with Islam is there is a streak of making others do what their religion instructs. One can create a giant art gallery full of cartoon depictions of Muhammad and let people throw darts at them if they want. They would be free not to come see it. That wouldn’t be wise, but it doesn’t violate the religious freedom of any Muslim.

    There was some piece of crap artist years back that made “art” in which he would urinate on depictions of Jesus. Nobody was trying to stop that artist, we just called him an asshole, and a bad artist, which he is.

  6. But respecting religious freedom is showing a picture of Muhammad. It’s just upsetting to one religion.
    And religion takes a back seat to basically anything in the public area.

  7. I say this as a religious person.

    Academic institutions should be putting academics first. Our society is segmented such that the academic space is supposed to be a fairly neutral one, and that is so that you can encounter ideas beyond the ones you normally would. That’s kind of the whole point. If you change that for religion, academics as we know it fundamentally changes.

  8. Academic freedom.

    That is the purpose of a university.

    The individual squeamishness of students should be largely irrelevant unless the professor is doing something illegal, against the university policy, or not for any academic benefit.

  9. If universities aren’t the forum to have open discourse and conversation or to challenge and critically think about any types of norms or ideas – religious or otherwise – then I don’t know where would be

  11. Academic freedom in a walk. That university is a disgrace.

    EDIT – I’m coming back for a rant because this pisses me off.

    I have a degree in a history (I’m kind of a big deal), and I have a distinct memory of a professor I respected telling me that one purpose – perhaps the main purpose – of the study of history is to fact check people making historical claims in the present to keep them honest. You say you have a historical grievance? Let’s look into that and see whether or not you’re full of shit.

    In the relatively recent past, people have been murdered for depicting Mohammed. Modern Muslims *need* to be informed *with evidence* that Muslims of the past visually depicted Mohammed without a second thought. It speaks directly to the questionable modern belief that doing so is wrong and the inexcusable belief that you can rightfully coerce others for such depictions.

    There’s a case to be made that Muslims more than anyone else need to see these images.

  13. Academic freedom.

    While I believe that religious groups have every right to practice their beliefs, those rights stop where they infringe on my rights.

  14. I’m new to this story and going off the linked article only.

    The key issue here to me is that the professor didn’t require students to view the image if they chose not to. She also offered them a chance to raise concerns with her before the class, presumably so accommodations could be discussed and agreed-upon.

    So I’m concluding that the students didn’t object to seeing the art, because they weren’t required to do so. They objected to the art being shown to anyone, because it depicted the prophet. Assuming all the details are right, that’s not a reasonable ask given the mission of most universities.

    They’re welcome to protest or object, but the leadership should stand behind the professor.

  15. Do I think that the government should regulate who a private university hires or fires? No

    Does this greatly diminish the reputation of the university and its degree holders? Absolutely

  16. They’re not mutually exclusive, and this professor seems to have done both — she warned her students in advance that she’d be showing it, permitted them not to attend if they were offended by it, etc. That’s how you exercise academic freedom while respecting your students’ beliefs.

    It’s outrageous that she was fired. She did everything right, it seems.

  17. i don’t think in an academic setting that religious beliefs should be respected at all. they’re not special, and none are any more valid than astrology or palmistry. an academic setting is the perfect place to reinforce that.

  18. I think that the question here is not a choice between academic freedom and respect for religious beliefs. The professor in question showed profound respect for Muslim beliefs. She repeatedly warned students, at the beginning of the semester, at the beginning of the lesson, and prior to showing the image, that she was going to show the image. She gave students time to leave the classroom or avert their eyes. The images in question- there were two- were both made by Muslim artists as religious celebrations of Islam. She presented them in the context of exploring debates within the Muslim world about idolatry and religious prohibitions around making images of the Prophet Muhammed.

    Many of us here in Minnesota love and welcome our Muslim neighbors who have come over in recent decades, mostly as refugees. I grew up in a city that went from almost entirely German Catholic to being about 10% Somali Muslim in the span of around 10-15 years due to refugee resettlement. Although there are a good many people here who are hostile to the Muslim community, I’ve always found the cultural divides between us quite navigable, and Muslim requests for accommodation of their religious practices have generally been easy to handle and compatible with our secular values. For example, our high school lunches had a fish option on Friday for Catholics and also had signs noting which dishes had pork in them, for Muslims and Jews. I go to my brother in law’s Eid al Adha celebrations and abstain from chasing the lamb with some wine. He is invited to my wife and I’s Novy God celebrations but leaves before the vodka starts flowing, and I warn him away from trying the salo if our Ukrainian friends bring it. We accommodate each other without imposing.

    The professor accommodated the beliefs of those Muslim students who believe Islamic law forbids them from making or gazing on images of the Prophet. But the students must also respect that these rules bind them, not the rest of the class or the professor, or even the other Muslims who disagree with them.

    If these had been purposefully offensive caricatures of the Prophet, then we might well ask what academic value there was in showing them, and in certain classes there may well be one. Let’s say you’re in an upper division French class focusing on modern French political culture and the day’s lesson is on the challenges of forging a multicultural French identity in the 21st century with a large Muslim population. In that context, showing, say, the Charlie Hebdo caricatures of Muhammed would be an understandable part of that lesson plan, and I’d say that a teacher showing those should act professionally and provide a warning to students prior to showing them.

    But this wasn’t even so inflammatory. It was a teacher showing, in the context of the lesson on Muslim debates around these images, two of these images made by Muslim artists as celebrations of their faith. There should absolutely not have been career consequences for this professor, and I really hope that some other university in our city takes her on. I hope she is able to find tenure somewhere and have protections from this sort of arbitrary, ass-covering firing by scared administrators running at the first whiff of controversy.

  19. Academic freedom, I’d also like to point out the professor was absolutely respectful of students religious beliefs giving very clear warnings. My grandmother is a Turkish Muslim and I asked her opinion on this and she actually got angry that the professor got fired.

  21. Religious freedom refers to the freedom to practice your religion. It does not give you the ability to insist I practice it with you. The professor gave her Muslim students the opportunity to adhere to their faith by not viewing the images, thus honoring his religious rights. To bar those images from students who are not Muslim was wrong. Their educational freedom is not something that should be infringed upon on the basis of *someone else’s* religion.

  22. I favor academic freedom as long as religious beliefs aren’t being completely trampled. If a Sam Harris style atheist professor was constantly making fun of a Muslim student or gave her a bad grade for wearing a hajib, then IMHO that would cross the line. Showing historical drawings of Mohammed should be a non-issue.

    Sadly, there’s a safety aspect to all this. I can understand a university not wanting to be liable for a mass terrorist attack.

  23. Academic freedom. University is about research, deep understandings, ideas and knowledge. Religious zealots are antithetical to that.

  26. This is what’s wrong with the world. Fired over showing a picture, respectfully. You university nut bags are something else. Can’t wait for the real world to smack you in the mouth.

  27. There is absolutely no reason you can’t do both. In this case the professor was very respectful and understanding and that’s why she offered MULTIPLE WARNINGS about the content of the artwork before she showed it so that people could choose whether or not they wanted to be there when it was presented.

    Respecting people’s religious beliefs does not mean you have to follow their beliefs yourself, just that you should make reasonable attempts to accommodate them.

  28. Fuck her religious beliefs. And fuck Islam for getting a free pass because they threaten violence. You can believe whatever you want and I can criticize, mock, or question it all I want. No religion should be able to censor a university.

  29. Academic Freedom.

    This professor did both. The warnings given in the syllabus AND provided in class before the image was displayed gave ample warning and time for those that might be offended to opt out of class. Termination was absolutely the wrong choice and the fact that the University backed the students and not the teacher was just as bad.

    There are reports now that the professor is receiving support from the MPAC (Muslim Public Affairs Committee) who has written a letter to the University insisting that the Professor be rehired. There is also another story I saw that the University may lose its accreditation over the incident.

  32. How can you talk about history in a university setting without talking about one of the three dominant religions of world history? Academic integrity somersaults over religiosity by a country mile. She didn’t say F Muhammad. He’s not Voldemort. She tried to make accomodations to Muslim students… she didn’t do anything that is actually illegal. She never told anyone to take their hijab off in her classroom. The students could have chosen not to participate if they were so offended. This is the same illogical rhetoric people try to use to not talk about slavery and racism, the Holocaust, etc.

  33. In the US, it is not remotely unlawful or disrespectful to look at or have an image of Muhammad available to look at.

    Simple as that

    If this had happened someplace it is illegal or whatever, fine. Fire the Prof.

  34. Idk anything about this case but I don’t see anything wrong with a professor showing a painting of Muhammad. Religion, whether we like it or not, is a part of our history. I would, however, have an issue with a professor encouraging people to subscribe to any religion. If they fired him just for simply showing a painting then I hope he sues for wrongful termination. This is my opinion as an Atheist.

  35. Academic Freedom is the only right answer. College isn’t about coddling you. It’s supposed to expand your mind and prepare you for life. Life isn’t going to go out of the way to not offend anyone. This is honestly embarrassing as a country.

  36. It’s becoming more and more clear that the student knew what she was doing and was only doing it for the attention. The professor gave numerous warnings both in classes and in the course’s syllabus. The student knew this was coming and tried to use it to her advantage to feel a bit of power over others. She was the president of the school’s Muslim student association and while I don’t want to paint presidents of student organizations with too broad of a brush, but in my personal experience pretty much all of them are sociopaths who want to feel important and powerful.

    The university should be ashamed and I hope their accreditation is in jeopardy.

  37. I have yet to meet a person who thinks the way the university handled this was correct. But let’s be clear here:

    Aram Wedatalla deserves a huge share of the blame here. She ignored the syllabus and warnings days and moments before. She ignored all context, and then tried to make this professor seem like some ill-intentioned bigot. She sat through that lesson with the intent of getting upset, and then lied about being “blindsided”.

    I’m Christian, and have religious convictions. But nobody is beholden to those convictions except me – the least of which a space which is supposed to be grounds of debate and study. Wedatalla seems to believe, like manny evangelicals and other fundies, that the world must tip-toe around their religious beliefs and that is not true. This professor handled this with as much decorum and respect as possible, and I hope she sues the shit out of that school, and that Wedatalla stops trying to ruin careers.

  38. Religious freedom means you get to practice as you wish, even publicly, without interference from the government. It doesn’t mean that other people have to obey the commandments and doctrine of your religion. In fact, religious freedom is the opposite of that, as requiring people to indulge in your religious practices is not respecting their freedom of religion.

    This often gets convoluted when we’re talking about public policy however, because people want to claim that because you don’t get to force others to adhere to your religion that that means you can’t advocate for policies that are based on your worldview (which often is informed by religious beliefs). That’s completely incorrect imo, as that’s basically stating that religious people don’t have a right to participate in political discussion if any link can be found between their political beliefs and their religious beliefs, which is ridiculous. You’ll notice those claims are also never made against left-wing religious people who often regularly use religion directly as a justification for their support of certain policies.

  39. I think it’s ridiculous. The professor gave ample warning. I think academic freedom is more important than any of our feelings to be honest, mine included. I think the teacher went out of his way to be respectful and this is the kind of shit that makes woke culture such a joke sometimes. And it wouldn’t piss me off so much if I wasn’t liberal myself and I know this is just ammunition against seeing us as reasonable and rational people.

  40. Academic freedom for sure. In the US your religion is a choice. I don’t think it should be equated to things like skin color whatsoever.

  42. Academic freedom. People don’t defer to the religious sensibilities of other religious students in similar contexts, and every fair precaution was taken to allow people outs if they had a problem.

  44. If something in an academic setting upsets any type of belief you have, just don’t show up that day and let the adults learn.

  45. I think I remember reading about this case. I think both are important, but the professor did due diligence. The professor warned the students multiple times that the painting would be shown and made it clear that students who objected to viewing it would not be required to attend class that day.

  46. Basically people of a specific faith getting to shout down others because they’re offended is the most dangerous concept there is.

    I’m a Christian and I support full and absolute freedom of speech. I don’t think we should be telling the librarian what books they can and can’t have on the shelves. I don’t think we should be able to tell professors what they can and can’t teach in the classroom. And I certainly don’t think people should get fired because what they say runs counter to my own religious faith.

    The university that fired that professor was spineless and should be ashamed of itself. And your being offended is never an adequate argument per se, no matter what it is that offended you.

  47. You know damn well they’d never give that amount of respect to any Christian students. Don’t pretend like if you are against this you respect religious people; you just respect Muslims.

  48. We don’t have to choose and that’s the beauty of this country.

    The teacher noted the painting and the syllabus at the beginning of the school year. The teacher invited any discussion of concerned regarding it. The teacher allowed the viewing of the painting to be optional. No one was forced to look at it. Nobody’s grave would have been adversely affected had they decided not to look at the image.

    The students who chose to complain after the fact and the University that fired the teacher knowing of the teaching plan are abhorrent and disgusting people.

  49. There are some topics that simply can’t be taught without offending someone. Either you eliminate topics, and perhaps subjects, or people are responsible for avoiding the material themselves.

    This was a particularly egregious bad decision on the part of the university. It borders on establishing religion, when you defer to a religion to the degree that they can cancel topics in an art history class. Can they also cancel parts of a non-art history class if it offends them? And how to deal with topics that are important to one culture but offend another?

    If you only defer to Islam, that’s a problem for sure.

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