Why are unions so controversial in the US?

35 comments

1. Because the republican party hates unions and their corporate mouthpieces have worked hard to vilify unions.

2. According to Gallup they’re pretty popular. Online negativity is just amplified.

   https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-highest-point-1965.aspx

3. [The Wire – Season 2.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVzbdI2uPgc)

   TLDR: Unions have a long history of political corruption and links to [organized crime](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMdqMXH7CrQ). It could be argued that those links actually made them effective. Now with organized crime being knee-capped and political corruption getting more sohpisticated than literally handing someone money, many of them are not very effective even in the best of cases. And just like any orgainzation, business, or government they are run by fallible people and the bad ones really stick out.

   Just look at r/kroger. Kroger is a union shop but many employees feel like their dues just go into a black hole.

4. There is a difference between trade unions and labor unions..

   Trade – essentially a private business operating freely

   Labor – lazy good for nothing’s with corrupt leadership.

5. Years of demonizing unions from corporate propaganda, years of evidence that unions were often corrupt or affiliated with organized crime(although this actually helped them do their job), and many examples of overly aggressive unions. For example, certains unions often oppose things like automation and create many problems for things like ports.

   I think unions are overall a good thing and support for them is growing across the board, but American attitudes towards them have been heavily colored by almost forty years of painting them in a bad light

6. Last week I had to have electricians come and flip a couple breakers, and had to have carpenters come to put about 10 screws into some 2x4s. If I would have taken a shit and clogged the toilet I would have had to call the plumbers to plunge it. It took 4 people 2 hours to do what I could have done myself if 30 minutes.

7. Reddit loves unions but anyone with experience with them knows they aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. Some of them are very good. Some of them are awful.

8. Usually just bad experiences.

   For example, I went to a trade show some years ago where I showed up to our booth with my laptop bag. Which I wasn’t allowed to carry myself — carrying “computers” onto the trade show floor is union work.

   Or like the New York Hilton ended having room service because that $30 cheeseburger wasn’t profitable for them to sell. The reason? Union rules about who does what.

   And just in general, unions have historic connections to organized crime and the mafia, have propped up nakedly corrupt politicians, etc.

9. I’m a board member at my Local and the union/state of unions is controversial just at my work place. Same at my last place, same union different local, I wasn’t on the board over there. I have also worked for a different company in my industry in the same union I’m in now.

   When unions run out of good things to fight for they start fighting the wrong battles. You cannot hurt your employer too much. Also, depending on the leadership, union or local prerogatives can favor the will of the board moreso than the will of the body. This makes union business and it’s existence controversial among the body members. As far as the greater, meta view, I have also worked for tiny companies. I was 50% of the company and the licensee at “my business” before I got into my industry. Not every business or trade makes sense to unionize. Honestly I think public unions are a sham.

   The NJEA has almost single handedly bankrupted the state of New Jersey. Dont take my word for it- Google it. After something like that, I cannot blame anyone for having a harsh view on unions. That said, I ultimately want to be President at my Local, I have used many of my benefits to my advantage, and I would strongly hesitate to take a non union position at my job. My union isnt perfect but I like it, I think we are overall good and I think we can do even better. So it’s a nuanced view.

10. Idk I’m a teacher. My first job was in a non union state, now I’m in a state with one of the strongest teacher’s unions and am on the current contract negotiation team. I’d take this over the shit pay, insurance, lack of workers rights, etc, I had in my last job.

11. Unions suck for companies trying to abuse their employees….so basically every American company.

    With that said, I’ve been forced to join a few unions over the course of my employment. They offered me nothing, and I paid them monthly for that service lol.

12. Depends on the Union. Each union is a different beast.

13. I think most people who have issues with unions mainly dislike state involvement, e.g. subsidies, compelled membership/dues, lobbying, etc.

14. because they raise prices and kill industries, or drive them out of the country. Most people don’t see the benefits

15. I worked in a union sheet metal shop as a non union employee. Part of my job was entering union employee work sheets into the system. One guy continually entered the same jobs over several days which basically showed he wasn’t working. Management tried to fire him but the union fought to keep his Job. Months later he was caught stealing cases of toilet paper from the building and again they fought to keep his job. He finally lost his job.

16. Unions secured us basic rights in the 19th-20th century.

    They became an issue once they became corrupt. Not all, but many. Essentially they garnered ties with the mob, many folks were extorted, and they began acting more and more like the businesses they claimed to oppose.

    The armchair socialists in the US get all pissy about anti-union rhetoric, but as someone who’s family was in the Coal Wars, many of the unions today are not the unions of the past.

17. I’m a union tradesman as well. I work in Indiana a lot, and that’s a Right to Work state. Because of it being RTW, I end up seeing and working with a lot of non union tradesmen. You hear a lot of conspiracies behind what it’s like to be a union tradesman.

    “They take half your check for dues.” They don’t.

    “You have to know someone to get in.” You don’t.

    “Everyone who joins a union just does it so they can be lazy and get away with it.” Those people get laid off.

    “Your pensions are failing, you won’t see a penny of it with your retirement.” We battle this on multiple fronts, but I assure you, I will have a retirement. And a good one.

    “Unions only protect lazy and incompetent people.” Not true.

    “It’s a good ol boys club.” Half truth. There are good ol boys in the union. But the union trades are changing with the times. Very accepting of POC and women these days.

    “They hold you back. Your pay is documented, you can’t ask for more.” Absolutely not true. The contract is the bare minimum. Many tradesman get more than what their contract states. Raises, vacations, trucks, phones, lap tops… etc.

    I’ve learned that republicans are just FAAAAAARRRRR superior to democrats in media, marketing, and overall ability to manage certain situations. I mean honestly, just that term, “Right to work”. Of course you have the right to work lmao that’s nothing new. What they did with that bill, naming it the way they did, marketing it the way they did… they literally convinced people that unions are the true evil of a work force. Brilliant, really. It’s worked like a charm. However, today, these corporations evil heads have turned. They’re showing their true colors at alarming rates, and people are wising up.

18. They got out of hand in certain markets by preventing people from hiring market priced labor to do very menial work and demanding exorbitant compensation for things like plugging in a lamp or pressing the button in an elevator. The typical union member is paid to not do more than their specific job description.

19. Most Americans like unions, but do not like being coerced into joining unions. Hence why right-to-work laws generally have favorable approvals, even in relatively more unionized states like Michigan.

    Also, as consumers, it’s not hard to see why there can be animosity towards unions. This is particularly true of public-sector unions. The teachers union in 2021 really fought tooth and nail in states like New York to resist in-person schooling. Meanwhile there were reports of some of the union heads going to vacation out of the country while that fiasco was going on. That upset a lot of parents, as you can probably imagine.

20. pfff, I’m of the opinion that Unions need to go back to the 1920s when they took up arms to fight against evils of their employers.

    At the same time, it’s easy to see some of the unions as ticks. Preventing businesses from firing employees who are terrible.

21. I remember when I was a supervisor and printed some job orders and handed them to the storekeeper to fill. They filed a grievance because printing orders was union work.

22. History of violence and corruption has helped stain the reputation of unions in the US which has a particularly violent history of labor disputes in general.

23. Unions have their place. I don’t like the really big unions which seem to more about political clout than representation of their actual members.

24. Because of propaganda

25. A lot of older people remember when unions were in bed with organized crime and were almost synonymous with it in some places. And some unions, like the CTU in Chicago, get very political and it turns people off. Even I, as a fairly progressive guy, was pretty turned off by them saying that attempts to get kids back in school after COVID was “rooted in white supremacy”. A lot of unions have also turned into what they claim to be against: money hungry elites at the top.

26. Because if a worker’s skills are actually worth a wage that supports their lifestyle choices, they wouldn’t need implied terroristic threats to get that wage.

27. I haven’t met anyone who is 100 percent against unions all the time, really the two camps you see bickering online are the Reddit teenagers who think unions are gods gift to mankind and are the solution to everything and the real people who like the idea of unions but understand (or know from experience) that while they can be great, they can also be horrible.

28. My dad used to be against unions because when he worked at UPS (a unionized package-delivery service), one of the more senior members of the union screwed up, and instead of trying to make certain that employee’s punishment was just and fair, the union pinned it on my dad and got him fired for someone else’s mistake.

    Unions are overall great, and the statistics support that, but when unions turn into social clubs that favors certain employees over others, people start to resent them.

29. Everyone wants good things but many don’t have the time, energy, money, of work ethic to participate in the organization with the power to make change.

30. Corruption is an issue, but not the only one. Collective bargaining can cause major problems for the individuals. For instance, when I was younger I worked at a grocery store with a union. The union fought (or rather forced) a set wage for workers. Sounds good, right? Well, I kept getting trained in other areas and promoted. I bagged groceries, then worked the register, then the customer service counter, and so on. So, what’s the problem? The mentally impaired bagger (nice guy, but could never do more than that) was paid the exact same amount as me. Everyone was. New people, more experienced people…it created no real incentive to try. Why work hard and take on more responsibility if I’m getting paid the same as the bagger?

    The other issue is unions that push their weight around for political reasons (like the teacher’s union in Chicago). Somehow immigration and sanctuary zones became part of the last strike if I remember correctly. They held the students’ education hostage as well, putting the kid’s education back weeks at one point.

    Union dues are also bullshit. From my understanding, there are places where you are obligated to pay them to work there. I shouldn’t have to pay someone else to bargain for me if I am able to do it for myself.

    These are a few reasons.

31. because the rich pay good money for politicians and media to badmouth or hamstring them at every opportunity and the brainwashing is sadly endemic

    nothing’s perfect, but as a society, we’re better with unions than without

32. Unions screw other people out of work. They make it so only they can do certain tasks when another person would be willing to do it. Also, I don’t like listening to a fire alarm all day for a week because only a union person can replace the battery.

33. I like the idea of unions but my experiences with them has been less than positive.

34. Most people who are anti- union have absolutely no idea how they work, why they exist, or what they do. They fall for the boss’s propaganda easily.

    The most recent guy I interacted with was a mostly worthless welder – the type who was convinced he did more than everyone which was objectively false. While I could have given him actual metrics to prove he was wrong, I decided it was best to let him believe something that is a point of pride to him.

    When I asked him why he didn’t join the union, he claimed that he did more work than everyone and if it weren’t for the union, the company could pay him more. I implied that they wouldn’t. He asked why the wouldn’t if he did more work.

    I asked him why they would. He’s already doing more work for the same money, so there’s no incentive to pay him more. His argument became, then, that he’d leave. I explained that it wouldn’t matter because they’d just pay the next guy the same or less because their goal is to make more money. His argument became that if he got more work done, he earned more money for his share. I pointed out that he relies on the people before and after him to produce goods for sale. Regardless of how fast he worked, the time and wages of others had to be factored in, so any real savings he created were negligible at best and were going to be pocketed by the company because, of course, their goal is to make money and not give it to him.

    He also argued that its ridiculous that the union won’t let people go to other departments to work. I had to explain to him that this is because companies like to meir one person do three peoples’ jobs and tend to become reliant on that, which overall actually hurts not just the workers and the company in the long term, it also hurts the economy. Never mind that it then becomes, “good work getting your job done. Now go do somebody else’s for the same wage.”

    Another was that unions protect lazy people. That’s just absurd. There’s no need to protect lazy people. Everybody else needs to work harder why somebody is lazy. And we’re doing the company a favor by taking the leech with us on strike. He also kills morale. We have no problem letting the company get rid of worthless employees because they weaken our hand at the bargaining table. We want strikes, slowdowns, and work to rule to be crippling. When you box, you still want your feeler punches to be a warning if they let you hit them. Besides, there are a ton of lazy people at non union jobs, too. Sometimes they even get paid more than the useful ones.

    Do some unions have their problems? Sure. But a union is far more of a democracy than a company. And all unions operate differently. And if unions become even bigger and more common, companies lose more power over all and we don’t have to rely on politicians to institute labor laws. We also don’t let politicians defund the bureau of labor so it can’t process labor grievances because your union takes the company to court instead. There is a reason unions popped up. And there’s a reason the anti-union propaganda is as misleading as the drug war propaganda.

35. Because like everything else in the US the quality of and benefits of the unions depends on the specific union and specific industry.

    It comes down to is the benefits of collective bargaining better then what you can get as an individual. This isn’t always the case and the only thing worse then getting fucked by your employer is getting fucked by both your employer and your union.

    Then there’s the consumer end where unions can cause delays, going over budget, limited service, etc.