My (M32) Wife (F27) and I have been together for 5 years. We both have very high sex drives. She is very open sexually and I am easy going so we are able to explore her sexuality together. Everything has been great and we gel very well on most things. When we first started dating we spoke very openly about what we enjoyed and our likes and dislikes when it came to the bedroom. We’d spoken about including other partners and both expressed some interest in the topic. We were both intrigued by the concept of voyeurism and even potentially swinging.
Eventually she expressed to me that she was not at all comfortable with the concept of even a threesome as she had some body image and confidence issues that she was working on and the thought of having another partner around freaked her out. I dropped the idea as a whole and didn’t bring it up again because it was clear how bothered she was.
Years later she expressed to me that she was finding a friend (F) of hers attractive and was interested in the idea of a threesome. She expressed she wanted to trying having sex with a woman. This friend is a very sex positive person so she thought she might be an ideal third. I told her if this was something she wanted to do I would give her the reigns and she could organize it and we could do it at her pace. I expressed I would like for all three of us to meet up together before hand with no pretense of having a threesome just so I could get to know her friend, and she could get to know me. I wanted to take this extremely slow and ensure no one was weirded out by the situation. Everything went well so after a few more hang outs together my wife organized the threesome and all parties had a great time. My wife and I enjoyed ourselves and we were closer as a couple for having done so.
Over the last few months she has started expressing more and more that she wants to include other partners in the bedroom. She stated that she wants to include other men. Despite having said I might be OK with this in the past I realized I was not comfortable with including another man and got cold feet. I told her I didn’t want to do it. She started getting defensive and questioning why and badgering me about it. She started asking if we could just have sex in the same room as another couple. I initially expressed interest as admittedly I had fantasized about this in the past. When she actually met a couple that were interested I realized this made me uncomfortable as well and I wasn’t ready for this. She again started badgering me and demanding I explain why I didn’t want to. I tried to explain it made me uncomfortable and I didn’t want to do it. She kept asking and asking and I blew up and started yelling that she needed to stop.
This conversation has happened a few more times and resulted in a relatively similar conclusion with her asking me over and over why I don’t want to do this, and me repeating that it makes me uncomfortable.
Last night, I was checking in on my wife since she had a rough day at work, and trying to make her feel better. I asked her if she was happy as a means of checking on how we were as a couple and she again brought up her desire to either swing or bring another man into our relationship. She said she had talked to a friend of hers and was jealous that her friend and her husband have a more open discussion about sex than we do. This last statement really pissed me off as I had felt we’ve always been very communicative. It broke out into an argument again with her saying she doesn’t understand why I find it OK to include another woman but don’t find it ok that she would derive pleasure from another man even if it meant I could be with another woman. I blew up again and straight told her I’m worried I would find her disgusting. I said that if she never wanted to include another woman in the bedroom I would have been fine with that and there was a reason I never barked up that tree after she told me she was uncomfortable. I told her it’s not fair that she doesn’t respect my boundaries. She said it sounds boring to not be with different people in the future and that infuriated me. I reminded her we agreed to respect each other’s boundaries and find the areas we can enjoy together. I told her I’m uncomfortable with the idea of her being with another man and am worried I wouldn’t be able to look at her the same again or wouldn’t want to touch her. I find the thought of another man inside her or on top of her or coming in her disturbing and now I quite frankly can’t get it out of my head. Just writing that last sentence made my skin crawl. I explained that the idea of it scares me and makes me want to curl up in a ball and hide. It freaks me out and bothers me to the core. She eventually conceded that she didn’t understand how much pain she was causing me with these conversations which only pissed me off more. I never yell, I never get loud, and I never talk down to her. These conversations have honestly been the only time we’ve ever yelled at one another in our relationship. I couldn’t understand how she could lack such empathy as to not notice that she was upsetting me as much as she was. She said she was sorry and understood now and wouldn’t bring it up again but I told her it was way too late for that as even before this conversation I couldn’t get this thought out of my head. I told her I knew she wanted to do this and it worried me she would forever hold this and regret us as a couple because of it. I told her I’m so worried that now she wants to go fuck around and that it makes me feel inadequate. We didn’t resolve the conversation. She slept in the guest room and I had nightmares about her cheating on me all night.
My ultimate fear is for her to leave me after 10 to 20 years because she resents me and now I can’t stop worrying it’s going to be over this. I work long hours and due to my job have to take trips that last for weeks sometimes and while she’s never done anything to betray my trust I’m so worried she will cheat on me. I recognize I shouldn’t worry like this but I can’t stop thinking about it.
I apologize for grammar and syntax as I wrote this in a huff and just needed to get this off my chest. I’m writing more to get different perspectives on the topic as I don’t feel like I have anyone I can really talk to about this. I have a wonderful family and a great friend base but I feel ashamed to talk about something like this. Normally, anything sex related I would talk about it with my wife but I don’t even want to look at her right now. I guess I’m writing this as means of offloading to anyone who will listen and to see if I’m being outlandish or an asshole. I realize the perspective that it seems like I got to have my fun with another woman, and now won’t let her enjoy another man but the only reason I even did that was because she expressed it was something she wanted to do.
Thanks for listening, if anyone does read this.
23 comments
Haha you should have thought of that before. You’ll be alright unless you start touching swords! Haha
Enjoy watching her, it’s the most intimate thing for her to share with you.
You are still a couple and she loves you, nobody else gets to see that.
She probably thinks it isn’t fair you get a threesome with another woman and she can’t enjoy another man and you are being selfish. I’m afraid this is going to cause major resentment and problems.
This feels off to me. Now maybe I’m old fashioned (because I’m old lol) but the threesome with her female friend was all her idea yes? I get the impression you would never have instigated this threesome with her friend without her bringing it up and requesting it.
Now, she wishes to bring a man to your bed and is upset that you’ve put a boundary down when you didn’t with her friend. I think this is unfair. She pushed for both of these things and is framing your reluctance to bring a man into your bedroom as “well you got to do a FFM threesome so it’s only fair I get a MMF threesome”.
If she hadn’t pushed for it would you have requested that first threesome with her friend?
The two of you have landed on what appears to be a pretty significant sexual incompatibility with one another. Maybe it wasn’t there from jump but it certainly has emerged with time and if your accounting of events are accurate, she’s really gotten pretty aggro about it.
Couple’s counseling seems very much in order but even then, she’d have to learn to dial things way back and I’m not sure she can take back a lot of what she’s already said.
Therefore, this leaves you two with a stark reality and I think it’s important that you see this with open eyes.
She wants to open up your relationship. This is important enough to her that she’s willing to push your comfort zone, start fights, pressure you, etc. From what you’ve written, she’s all but drawn a line in the sand with you. Maybe it’s not a formal ultimatum but it’s basically there in spirit.
That leaves you with a pretty simple — albeit shitty — set of choices:
1. Continue in a state of conflict and fear/anxiety in the short-run but hope that counseling might create a breakthrough.
2. Entertain her wishes over your comfort level. Who knows, maybe it’s not as bad as you think it’ll be but by the same token, maybe it’ll be what you fear or worse. Either way, the fact that you’d be doing it over your own misgivings is bad. I don’t recommend this option but it *is* an option.
3. You two admit that this isn’t going to work out and amicably split up. Again, I’d still recommend counseling before you get here but this is an outcome you have to accept as being possible.
It all sucks and I feel for you but regardless of how you two got here, you’re at an inflection point in your marriage and if I can be really blunt, it feels like wherever you’ve arrived, you can’t go “back” to how it was before. Instead, however the two of you resolve this — if it can be resolved — it will have transformed the two of you to some extent. Not necessarily for better/worse, but it will be different. I wish you two good luck.
It’s probably worth taking some time to unpack *why* you find the thought of her with another man upsetting. I don’t know your exact situation, but I know I (and a lot of men) are raised with the idea that women are property in some respect. It’s never out and out, but there’s this cultural idea that you commit to one partner and they are your everything. And especially in the case of men, there’s a sort of.. cuckolding aspect or shame that “your woman” is being intimate with another man. I’m not saying this to suggest that you think that your wife is your property, but I do think we’re all exposed to media that enforces the idea that if you can’t satisfy your woman’s every need, or if she feels she has to go somewhere else to get pleasure, that you’ve failed as a man.
It may go without saying but it’s all nonsense. It’s absolutely ridiculous to expect to cater to every single one of your partner’s needs. Sometimes it happens, but the vast majority of us will *always* lack in some way.
I say this to give you something to mull over. I have no doubt your feelings are *real,* and very scary (as a matter of fact, I’ve been there too before having dabbled in nonmonogamy). It’s really upsetting to even conceive of your partner with someone else, but knowing where that fear is coming from — and by association just how rooted in reality is — can really help. Again, not trying to say you’re *wrong* for feeling the way you do, just trying to shed light on where those feelings might be coming from.
That said, it’s really important that your wife understand that this is something you need to work through. Her getting mad at you isn’t going to help the process. She needs to understand that while this is an inconvenience for her, it’s a really big deal for you.
You’re not being an asshole. You have a clear boundary that your wife is not respecting. If you cave on this request, what’s the next thing she’ll bully you into with her tantrums?
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OP, just find another couple and go for it. Either you will give this to her or she will eventually cheat
You’re NTA for enforcing your boundaries. Sounds like you two are sexually incompatible.
Why does the thought of another woman touching your wife not make her disgusting in your eyes? What about a woman who your wife desires is less threatening to you than a man that she desires?
You’re fucked. You never should have agreed with the first threesome. By doing this you opened the door to her wanting one. I’m sure she is thinking you got yours now I want mine. I know she wanted the first one and had fun with the woman as you did but now she wants her turn with another man. Chances are she will fulfill her fantasy while you are traveling for business. The fact that she has friends who are into this lifestyle and are telling her how great it is also adds to your problems. These are the same friends that will be whispering in her ears when you’re out of town.
When we first started dating we spoke very openly about what we enjoyed and our likes and dislikes when it came to the bedroom. We’d spoken about including other partners and both expressed some interest in the topic. We were both intrigued by the concept of voyeurism and even potentially swinging.
my wife organized the threesome and all parties had a great time.
She stated that she wants to include other men. Despite having said I might be OK with this in the past I realized I was not comfortable with including another man and got cold feet.
I initially expressed interest as admittedly I had fantasized about this in the past. When she actually met a couple that were interested I realized this made me uncomfortable as well and I wasn’t ready for this.
I asked her if she was happy as a means of checking on how we were as a couple and she again brought up her desire to either swing or bring another man into our relationship.
she doesn’t understand why I find it OK to include another woman but don’t find it ok that she would derive pleasure from another man
I blew up again and straight told her I’m worried I would find her disgusting.
I wouldn’t be able to look at her the same again or wouldn’t want to touch her.
She eventually conceded that she didn’t understand how much pain she was causing me with these conversations which only pissed me off more.
She said she was sorry and understood now and wouldn’t bring it up again
I told her I knew she wanted to do this and it worried me she would forever hold this and regret us as a couple because of it.
she resents me and now I can’t stop worrying it’s going to be over this.
**Yep, take out the fluff and it sounds like ye olde bait and switch**
This sounds like insecurities on your end. Not only did you posted here trying to make your wife looking like the bad guy, you failed set your boundaries from the beginning. Where’s the boundaries of jealousy from both sides? Did you had talks about each other’s boundaries from the start? And what happened to you being okay/opened with swingers? You broke your agreement when you and your wife started this at the beginning of the relationship. This is no longer about your boundaries, this is about you breaking your promise towards your wife from the beginning. And now you’re having nightmares of her cheating on you, cause dude some where in your subconscious you fucked up. Rn you both need space. I don’t blame her being upset at you. But you for to turned that against her is wrong. Just because she planned this, does not mean you did not have time to think over jealousy entering into your relationship.
You are not an asshole and I applaud you for respecting yourself and your boundaries.
Allow me to be frank and honest here.
A couple of years ago, my husband and I became close with a couple friendship of ours. Close enough to the point that we considered opening our marriage and partner swapping. I felt attraction to the other husband and I was okay with my husband sleeping with the other wife. We decided to experiment together and feel it out.
We booked a hotel and although we did not have sex together as couples, there was a little touching back and forth between all of us. It became a little awkward and things kinda fizzled out. My husband and I went back to our own hotel room that night and he expressed to me the exact same feelings and fears as you are having right now. Although he thought he would like partner swapping, he changed his mind in the moment and told me he did not want to open our relationship and that he did not want me to have sex with the other man.
Now, I will fully admit that I did not respect this boundary. Unlike my husband, this little bit of experimentation was enough to tantalize me and I was excited and turned on by the excitement of sleeping with a new partner. This resulted in an affair between me and the other husband. After a couple of weeks, I ultimately couldn’t live with the guilt and shame and I confessed what I had done. My husband was understandably heartbroken and angry. He considered that this was the end of our marriage.
After many days, he sat me down and told me that he did not want to leave me, that he still loved me, and that he did not want to get divorced. In that same conversation, he also said to me, “Lilah, I am not going to tell you that you cannot sleep with other people. If that is truly what you want, then I want you to be happy and free to do just that. I can tell you though, that I do NOT want to be married to a partner who wants to be with other partners and I do NOT want to be with a partner who cheats on me to do so. I am willing to work this out and attend couples counseling with you to salvage this relationship, but I need you to honestly look inside yourself and determine whether you are willing and committed to monogamy going forward. I need you to understand that I will never change my mind on this topic. I do not want an open relationship and I never will. If that is something you think you want or something you might resent me for down the road, then we need to part ways right now. I do not want to hold you or myself back from the type of relationship we need to be happy.” After that conversation, the ball was in my court.
I immediately started therapy sessions for myself and after much thought and introspection into myself and my adulterous actions, I realized it was not so much other partners that I wanted, it was the novelty that was lacking in our 15 years+ relationship.
I chose to accept the conditions for his forgiveness and we began to build a new relationship with each other. We attended couples counseling and sex therapy together where we both put in the time and commitment to addressing our sexual interests and needs. I started realizing the ways I was being selfish and taking him for granted. I made efforts to show affection in ways I had never done before and by doing so, I found myself as excited and in love with my husband as I was in the very beginning of our relationship. Three years later, I can confidently say that I am very happy with my monogamous relationship and we now have a very satisfying and fulfilling sex life. There is no part of me that wants to seek out additional partners.
I apologize for the long story, but I wanted to share my experience because I want you to know that the future of your relationship is not in your hands – it is in hers. You have made your boundaries loud and clear. You have every right to be frustrated and you do not need to make yourself uncomfortable or disrespect your boundaries for the sake of her and her wishes to sleep with other people. You do not owe it to her to allow her to sleep with other people. Even if you agreed at one point – you are allowed to change your mind and you are allowed to say no.
If she cannot accept this fact and continues to pressure you or make you feel bad, you absolutely must end the relationship. As much as it may hurt, you need to let her go. Leaving this situation unresolved will ultimately end with her resenting you and cheating on you. I wish you all the love and strength in the world as you move forward. ❤️
This is a terrible idea. Stop all infidelity. This question or a version of it is asked all the time on this sub and it never ends well. Odds are the 3rd will have a bigger penis than you, you will feel inadequate, and your wife will clearly favor the larger penis.
To quote Bartok the Bat ” Only tears can come of this, sir.”
Try to look at the situation without the gender of the third party involved for a moment. She had sex with another person, and you were fine with this. You also had sex with another person, and both of you were fine with this. She wants to do it again, but now you’re not okay with this. The difference being, now this third person would be male. The MFF offered you personal enjoyment as you could enjoy watching your wife with another woman, and enjoy that other woman yourself. A MFM offers you nothing, as you don’t want to watch your wife with another man, and you have, I assume, no interest in anything sexual with the other man.
She should not expect tit for tat in a threesome, but if you want to understand why your wife is upset, from her POV you’re only on board when the situation offers you 100% benefit. She might be even more bothered since you said in the past you’d be okay with it, but then, after already having had a threesome, you decided that you’re not okay.
She should not be trying to force you into something you don’t want to do, absolutely not, but you could be doing a better job of understanding where she is coming from. You said you hate the idea of her having sex with another man, having him be inside of her, her experiencing pleasure with him, etc. Have you considered how she might have felt watching you have sex with another woman?
Either way it does sound like you two are not at all on the same page regarding sexual exploration.
Whatever you don’t don’t give in to that threesome nonsense, been there done that. You need to watch “Strong Successful Male” on YouTube. Your wife is basically saying she wants to cheat and she wants you to be ok with it. If you give in, you lost in the long run and if you don’t go along with her sexual desires, she will eventually cheat. Find someone else man, trust me. Do not go down that path.
If guys aren’t ok with their lady sleeping with another man then DO NOT ever sleep with another women, plain and simple.
I’m not condoning her behavior but the double standards are not cool.
My ex and i broke up over something about this. He couldn’t bear the thought of me being with someone else but had no problem sleeping with other women.
I love watching him with other women but as soon as I’m “not allowed” to do the same or he isn’t comfortable with it THAT’S when I don’t enjoy it. I’m rarely going to ask to bring anther man in but if the option isn’t there for me it’s not there for you.
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY are men ok with them sleeping with another women but not their woman being with anther man 😡 not cool.
I think everyone has the right to establish sexual boundaries and not be forced into something they are not into. In that regard I think you’re not being an asshole.
Now, when you say that you think a female sexual partner is conceptually non threatening while a male sexual partner would make your wife “disgusting” to you, uh… yeah. That makes you an asshole. I’m kind of over men in this sub being into a threesome when it’s a MFF (the guy gets to live out his weird fetishizing fantasy of seeing 2 girls go at it) but when the wife suggests a man they’re horrified by the idea and think it’ll fundamentally change how they feel about their partner. It’s WEIRD and misogynistic and rooted in like seriously outdated sexual values.
If you want to stay monogamous and close the door to your bedroom/sex life do so but you should not be the only person who gets a say. If you knew this was your wife’s fantasy to begin with and indulged her once just leave it at that and don’t be shocked if she’s feeling unfulfilled sexually. Marriage counseling would prob be beneficial.
This sounds so so bad from her point of view and I totally understand your view on all this I must say.
I’m a married man as well, and if my wife asked if we could include a man in our sex life, I too would have my skin crawling. You’re just not into men, so why would you want a 3 some with a man?! I know I wouldn’t.
If my wife asked for a 3 some with a woman, I’d be more open to it, but wouldn’t really be overly keen either as I had a 3 some with two women years ago and it was weird….but I’d possibly do it for her simply because a naked woman on my naked wife isn’t a disgusting thought. A naked man however, no thanks.
Stick to your guns, don’t accept her bs. This is horrible how she keeps pushing this in your face. I really hope you haven’t married a woman who you can never match on such matters. You have to politely put your foot down. If she continues, you need to have a controlled, but serious discussion with her about respect and sadly if she refuses to see your point or fails to respect you, you may only have one choice left to make – exhaust all options first, but don’t accept this bs from her.
Good luck man!
You don’t have to do something if you don’t want to do it consent goes both ways and you shouldn’t let someone guilt you in to doing something.
You fell for the bait mate…the only way not to be caught in a quid pro quo is to never accept the offer, even if it seems to come without strings.
I think you have handled this situation very poorly and to say the things about your wife that you have is somewhat disappointing to say the least.
Before i elaborate, the question that you need to ask is are you prepared to look at yourself here . Or do you think everything is her fault ? Because in your writing of this story it’s very one sided , you’ve been extremely critical of her and you paint yourself as a victim and the good guy here , taking no responsibility for what YOU have done.
Your second last sentence is just a misrepresentation of the facts here and you are trying to sell a story to yourself because the public just don’t buy it.
Ive no real desire to try and convince you to look into a mirror if you don’t want to look. The reality is you have to do that .
But there is no doubt you mislead her.
Based on what you shared she had no intention of trying things with others at one point . It was your idea. Women lacking in self confidence and body image just aren’t interested in involving others . Yet you make out you are the hero in deciding not to pursue it at the start . The first and most obvious question is why if you are her partner did she have a lack of confidence in how she looked? Does the partner not have a role here ?
Again based on your story at some point you were looking at “ voyeurism and swinging “ and “ including other partners “
That seems a pretty clear plan. There’s just no grey area there .
Now this is years back .
So in good faith , down the track where her body image is better she suggests we start this process and a female is included. Again you paint a picture that it’s not about you , but you are actively involved and she is supportive of you. That’s clear.
Quite understandably, years later she is ready to try the other part of the equation. After all that’s been discussed at length.
Now , you’ve changed your mind .
You haven’t said this years ago or before you slept with the other woman . You didn’t go through the process then and say I only intend on trying it with her, what I said previously has changed .
You waited until the last few weeks or “ last night “ to tell her and make not nice comments about her.
And you don’t realise you either a/ deceived her or
b/ didn’t hold up your end of the bargain
A class act you are not 👎