I’m politically center-left. I feel like before this recent surge, we could have helped all of the migrants coming in. Now there’s too many and realistically I don’t think there will be enough jobs and resources for them. I am absolutely NOT in favor of deporting and separating families already here who don’t cause trouble. That’s cruel. But a bad economy also equals more poverty for both Americans and undocumented immigrants. All of the research surrounding how the economy would be positively impacted by giving undocumented immigrants citizenship was before the surge. This is a tough dilemma.
38 comments
>Now there’s too many and realistically I don’t think there will be enough jobs and resources for them.
There’s more than enough of both. We have a rapidly growing economy and world record waste regarding food and technology.
>But a bad economy also equals more poverty for both Americans and undocumented immigrants. All of the research surrounding how the economy would be positively impacted by giving undocumented immigrants citizenship was before the surge. This is a tough dilemma.
It hasn’t changed. Giving them the opportunity to contribute to the system, pay taxes, acquire wealth, build businesses, and so on is still the same as it was before. The longer we try to dehumanize immigrants in a nation founded on immigration, the worse we tank our own economy while blaming others.
Our issues never stemmed from immigration. It has always been inequality.
Invest in South and Central American countries. We can move some of our lighter manufacturing to them easily, and Mexico is ready for a lot of what we are currently making in China.
Most people coming are economic refugees. If they had a decent job in their home country they would likely stay.
That is by no means a magic bullet, but one piece of what will be a multi-pronged effort.
Secure the boarder and put a plan in place to give those here a chance at citizenship or deport them.
Continue helping to improve Central America, South America, and the Caribbean, and make it easier for people to come here legally.
The border crisis was never a crisis until there was a border. Up to the 1980s people freely crossed as day or seasonal workers filling the jobs people in the US did not want to do. This process has remained in place with the only difference being the border crossing.
To fix this problem requires a huge understanding and maturity of the most willfully ignorant conservatives and a de-escalation of the 24/7 constant drama of conservative news organizations.
Most of their target audience hires and relies on immigrant undocumented laborers while they simultaneously complain about the very situation they are economically benefiting from.
So, you can’t enforce a land border. Not really. Especially not one that’s 1.9k miles long.
The best way to address illegal immigration, and more on par with the rest of the world, is to focus efforts internally. Deport persons in violation of their visas and tell them they can come back once they’ve gone through the process again.
We can solve it turning it all into America. At least down through Panama would make security a lot easier, and the biggest sources of immigration would just become citizens anyway
A wall would only need to stop about 10-20% of illegal crossings in order to break even on costs. 10-20% amounts to hundreds of thousands of people. There’s a reason why the current administration is quietly completing the wall despite campaigning against it for four years.
I’m generally fine with deporting people, the idea that it is cruel is sort of insane. This is the only country in the world where a lot of people feel like if you manage to illegally cross our borders you just get to stay here forever.
The solution to the problem itself is different though. You could never deport people fast enough to keep up. Step 1, destroy the cartels. You’d probably need the US military to do it at this point so good luck. Step 2 apply enormous pressure to Mexico to secure their own borders because a large portion of these people are just transiting Mexico. Step 3 a decades long investment in central and south American countries to turn them into livable places.
I say the solution is to make it easier for people who have immigrated illegally to work. I keep hearing about work force shortages and I can name a few companies that are dying for entry level positions. Let’s fill ’em up! Charge them income tax and there ya go!
For those abroad…we can talk about bad economies until our lips turn blue, but nothing is going to change fundamentally until corruption and rife are solved in Central/South America/Mexico. That’s the biggest inhibitor to their success by far. It allows crime to flourish and discourages legitimate businesses from moving there. The US should also streamline its immigration process to encourage and reward legal immigration.
For those here, I think we should offer a pathway to citizenship and try to integrate them into American society. However, if they commit a serious misdemeanor or any felony, they should probably be deported. But the border also needs to be monitored, we do not have the capability of settling hundreds of thousands of people a month at the moment
I’m wholly against giving citizenship or amnesty to anybody ahead of someone who is trying to do it legally, but there are some things that could perhaps be done to make legal immigration easier.
I have a coworker who is a naturalized citizen, and his wife isn’t even allowed to come here to visit, let alone live. She is in the queue, but they’ve been married for nearly two years and she has yet to even visit the US.
The economy isn’t that bad, we have record low unemployment and fast shortages of restaurant and service labor that new immigrants often fill.
Weren’t people complaining last year about how hard it is to hire people and how “no one wants to work”. Why don’t we just let the people that want to work in those jobs into the country? The current immigration system is too complex and makes it too hard to let people into the country.
It is real easy actually, make it economically impossible for illegals to get hired for jobs. That would include substational fines and possible prison sentences for employers. If you cut all economic means for illegals to survive in the United States, then you root out 90% right there. From there, the government provide free travel to either their country of origin or allow passage to another 3rd country like Canada.
Make LEGAL immigration a bit easier, punish illegal immigration harshly.
To be honest I just don’t see it as a priority. While I’m not a fan of illegal immigration, they do contribute to the economy and are actually less likely to commit crimes than American citizens. If they do get caught and sent back I’m not going to be too sympathetic, but at the same time I feel that spending a large amount of resources on trying to catch them is wasteful.
The thing with the border is that it’s just so huge that it would take a huge amount of manpower, equipment, and funding, to effectively secure. That’s not even addressing the fact that over half of illegal immigrants fly into the country with legal visas and just overstay them. There is also an enormous amount of trade that goes on between the US and Mexico that would give plenty of cover for groups looking to smuggle in people and drugs through our ports.
I’m not saying we should just have open borders, but I think we should be honest with ourselves in regards to the amount of harm this is doing and how much our actions can realistically address it.
Stop calling it a “border crisis” and behave as if this world is actually complicated and nuanced, because it is.
I’m going to go out on a tangent here and I (hope) to have no US political opinions on this.
I think the North American Continent Confederacy, including the USA, Mexico, and Canada would be a hands-down improvement. The Mexican States would fair better economically, the US wouldn’t take a massive hit. It would do best after a US invasion to destroy drug cartels and either support or take down the Mexican government. Drugs would be an issue but the Mexicans deal with that already; they’re really trying their hardest. US and Canadian officers, that speak Spanish would put a halt on corruption, I’d hope
For the economy to survive, we need more workers. young americans are too debt-burdened at this point to make new workers. I don’t care how racist you are, you should be cheering for immigrants to come in and work for shit wages. When you wake up from the propaganda the bosses sell you about them “stealing your jobs”, anyway.
If we can’t realistically plug all the holes, we may as well process, screen and document those coming in.
I’m the short term, there may be some pains accepting a large group of migrants. But long term population growth is great for the economy. Look at countries like Japan, S Korea, China and Russia who are going to be or already are facing a declining population. They have problems much bigger than a looming recession.
I’m also not against some sort of America 101 instruction there. Basic finance, human trafficking 101, sources for government and non-profit aid, labor laws and introductory English. Have them leave the boarder with enough knowledge to not be victimized and be able to function in the society. While I know the concept of YOU MUST LEARN ENGLISH is polarizing and controversial. But I am only approaching it from the most pragmatic point of view. An immigrant who can speak some English has a massive leg up in this country over another immigrant who can only speak their native language.
I am 69. I grew up on the American/Mexican border. This has been a problem for my whole life. Nothing new just the numbers. For my lifetime we have been catching them and sending them home, many on a regular basis. It has made no difference but that has not encouraged us to change tactics. I suspect the truth is the solution is in their country and not in ours.
Be warned, series of unpopular opinions to follow:
Without immigration our country is going to shift into permanent demographic decline, like much of the developed world. The reduction in working age to retired population ratio is really bad for long term growth. Many cities in the US have been in a negative demographic cycle for decades. We need these migrants, it’s not a crisis other than the acute humanitarian problem in processing cases at the border.
All that being said, our crippling sanctions and attempted coup in Venezuela have been disastrous and we need to think about how to get economic stability back there. It’s partly our fault the country’s economy collapsed and sent millions seeking asylum.
It’s important to remember that immigrants don’t only take jobs – they create them. Think about all of the huge corporations employing hundreds of thousands of people founded by immigrants. It’s not a zero sum game.
We had the Marshall Plan for Europe after WW2, why not invest in Central and South American nations?
Amongst other things, consider bringing back the [Bracero Agreement](https://immigrationhistory.org/item/bracero-agreement/). One reason why illegals come from Mexico to stay in the United States is that they are basically seasonal workers who don’t want to return to Mexico because they’re afraid it’ll be impossible for them to return the following year.
Opinion: the illegal immigration is a direct result of the legal immigration being one of the most as backwards systems in the USA. If immigrating legally was something that was actually obtainable then it wouldn’t be as much of a problem
In the long term, 2 main ways:
1. Make legal immigration a realistic and achievable possibility. Acknowledge it’s benefits not our country. Celebrate our new members of society.
2. Work with our neighboring countries throughout the Americas and help them to solve some of their problems but also uphold an expectation that they take care of their own people and don’t create a crisis situation. Help them to identify causes of instability that lead to mass migration and provide tools and resources to stabilize these places. I am willing to bet that an ounce of prevention in these places will be more cost effective for us than a pound of cure at the border.
In the short term: acknowledge that there is an international crisis occuring. Implement short term policies that are aimed at short term relief. Engage with allies throughout the world to help spread the load of this crisis. Put our money where our mouth is and accept some of these people in good faith and expect our allies to accept some too. Provide them a pathway to citizenship and a reasonable opportunity to build a life.
We are one of the least densely populated countries on the planet, we are not running out of anything. Make it easier to come legally and let them contribute their dream to the rest of the country as is our founding ideas.
No crisis.
None of what you said is true
Malthus has been proved wrong so many times. We are not over populated. We are not running out of resources. Sorry to burst your doomsday bubble.
The economy isn’t even that bad. Maybe you were young the last go around in 08.
Majority of illegal immigration are people overstating their visas. So the answer to your question is to ban international students and ban tourists.
We don’t. The wealthy need slave labor so they will talk about doing something about it, but won’t actually take steps to do it.
Actually enforce our national and international immigration law.
To be an asylum seeker you have to present yourself at the border of a safe nation, request asylum, then wait for that asylum case to be handled. Crossing the border without doing this is a crime, it also negates all asylum claims according to written US and international law.
I am all for helping those who fit the criteria for asylum. But the undocumented are just flat out criminals by entering and/or staying in a country that they are not a citizen of without permission. Those need to be deported to their country of citizenship immediately.
Take the business from anyone who knowingly hires an illegal.
Immigrants don’t take jobs, because they also live here and spend money, thus creating jobs. And exactly what resources is America running out of that immigrants will take?
Secure the border. Then we can have a conversation about what to do next.
Easier to get in legally. Harder to get in illegally
Ending the war on drugs is a big part of this equation that hasn’t heen discussed in depth.
It is a failure for so many reasons. But in regards to this question, it empowers criminals.
It has created much of the political instability in countries south of the US border by empowering these criminal cartels and affording them great wealth and political influence. Americans continue to demand drugs at record numbers. Look at the opioid crisis. Even before the pandemic, the USA experienced a drop in life expectancy 2 years in a row. This is unheard of in a developed country during a time of peace and economic prosperity. The reason is attributed solely to suicides and opioid overdoses.
Criminal influence in Latin America is bad news. Some of these countries experience such extreme violence and instability and lack of economic opportunities outside of the drug trade. It has made regular people in these nations flee their homes in search for more stability. They do not want to live in fear of violence where the only path to success is criminal enterprise. Wouldn’t you don’t this for your son or daughter?
You’d be a damn fool for not.
Anyone who thinks we can end the war on drugs by brute force is ignorant to how the drug trade works. We cannot police our way out of this and we haven’t been able to since that Harrison Narcotics Act was passed in 1914 banning heroin and coke.
Our government has increasingly become more and more authoritarian to enforce drug laws but the only consequences has been hurting the low-hanging fruit. The users and low level dealers who are slinging to fund their own habits. Americans make up 25% of the prison population in the world even though we are less than 5% of humans. But the criminal masterminds and gangs are stronger then ever and thrive due to drug prohibition. Similar to how alcohol prohibition was one of the key factors that empowered The Italian American Mafia. You cannot eradicate demand by attacking the supply. It is a game of whack a mole. It’s just too profitable of enterprise for no party to step in and try to fulfill the demand.
The only way this *might be* feasible is to resort to full scale authoritarianism, encroach unreasonably on our civil liberties, and spend an extraordinary amount of resources in doing so. We’ve already done this in many regards and luckily I think we’re moving away from this approach because people are sick and tired of it and how much money it’s cost us. How many lives does it cost us.
But we might want to instead ask why so many Americans want to get so fucked up on hard drugs so bad in the first place? I don’t want to go too deep on this, I think that Americans have a big hole in our collective hearts that we fill with controlled substances because this country has become such a harsh cold place to live in where so many feel unfulfilled with their lives… So they choose to numb the pain And emptiness.
**As long as there’s demand from Americans there will be supply.** You’re not going to be able to beat this force of economics. It’s as strong as any law of physics. The added risk and danger only increases the stakes, the dangers, the violence, and the levels of political instability associated with the drug trade. Drug prohibition makes drugs more dangerous because it makes criminals control the drug trade.
Prohibition has made opioids more dangerous and has also made them more covert. No longer are the opioids derived from poppy plants in the United States or Canada because those are two bulky and easy to trace. If anybody reading this friends or families are junkies, you should be missing real heroin on the streets At least with opium derived dope most addicts knew their tolerance. The risk of overdose existed. But wirh fentanyl and the synthetic RCs it is impossible to accurately measure at the microgram level and people are dropping left and right. I’ve seen too many decent but troubled humans in my life die too young due to this shit.
And the criminals can synthesize it in labs right within the USA. Trade it over the dark web and ship in vacuum sealed USPS packages undetectable. Fentanyl and other synthetic opioids are so potent that a very small amount can supply a whole city’s demand without any poppies.
So yes indeed, the war on drugs Is a major component as to why there is so much political instability in the countries south of the United States. It has given much power to criminal organizations that have profited heavily through political and monetary capital. The influence gangs and cartels have in countries south of the border is alarming. Our own CIA has even declassified documents where it is documented that they’ve partnered with these organized crime groups in pursuit of their intelligence goals, which shows that their legitimacy exists at a level everybody should find extremely uncomfortable.
Free market!
if you can’t compete with an illegal who barely speaks English….then maybe your job (or even you) wasn’t worth protecting anyway….just sayin’.
I don’t think there is much that can be done. We can’t stop people from traveling to the border — that’s really up to Mexico. And once they reach the border, they are legally entitled to apply for asylum.
Mexico needs to step up here, and they’re not really helping. Longterm, we need to address root causes. There’s a reason these people are fleeing their countries. They’re not safe.