Edit: I’m not asking for your opinion on Japan, Turkey or Germany specifically. There was a first part about France, too, that I didn’t include due to length. I would like to know if you think the meaning of the quote – that you can’t become a “true local” in most countries, while it’s very possible in the US, even if obviously it’s not instantaneous
44 comments
Was true then. Still true now.
Absolutely true. People still happily post pictures on Reddit of their being sworn-in after meeting the residency requirements and passing their citizenship test.
Very true. Now and then.
100% true before then, at the time, now, and in the future.
Certainly very true then and now with regard to becoming an American.
The other countries – from my exposure to Japan I would say it’s accurate that you will not be considered Japanese unless you were born with that ancestry. *Even being born in Japan* does not guarantee you so much as a Japanese nationality, much less being culturally accepted as “Japanese.”
Probably is more true nowadays than it was then. There’s never been an official language so I’ve met plenty of immigrants turned citizens who’ve never spoken a full sentence of English in their lives. They don’t take part in anything typically “American” but they’re Americans just the same as the folks who live for college football, a good beer, BBQ, blowing stuff up and going pew pew for fun.
They don’t celebrate Christmas or traditional western holidays but as misunderstood as their tradition may be once they’re an American they’re an American no matter where they came from or how little they understand of our unofficial but widely used language
When that stops being true we stop being America
That used to be true. It still is, but it used to be too.
There are third-generation German immigrants without citizenship; Japan is one of the most xenophobic countries on earth (half-Japanese children born in Japan are still considered foreign, whether or not they have citizenship).
Becoming a permanent legal resident in the US isn’t *easy* but it’s doable, same with citizenship.
It’s still true. Here in New York City, we have many Americans of diverse backgrounds 🌎🌍🌏
I’d say that’s pretty much true. The US isn’t the only country where you can say you’re of that nationality after immigrating, but it seems to be harder in a lot of countries to be accepted as a citizen of that country if you’re not a native speaker of the language or if you’re not of the same ethnicity that most people are.
I remember watching a video a while back of this guy who was a second generation Korean citizen. He was a white guy, both of his parents were from England iirc, but he was born and raised in South Korea, Korean was his first language, and he’d never lived anywhere else. Yet he knew he would never be Korean, he’d always be considered a foreigner even though he was born there. That whole concept is so weird to me.
Specifically with regards to citizenship and being considered a “true” American, it’s accurate. I don’t know how citizenship works specifically in Germany, Turkey, or Japan, but it is generally understood that if you’re not born there and/or not the native ethnicity you’ll never be one of them. America is far more accepting, there are paths to citizenship, and we’re a country founded and built by immigrants. You can come here, live here, work here, and in a few years you will be considered one of us.
Whole thing is an oversimplification, obviously immigration is not straightforward and is very difficult for many, racism and xenophobia exist, and that path to citizenship can sometimes take over a decade. But the idea that people from all around the world and from all different cultures can be considered “true Americans” is one of the aspects of the US that I’m proud of.
This is our national identity.
I can’t speak to other countries but in America it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been here. The second you become an American citizen, you’re just as much of an American as someone born here.
100% true. Once They take the oath they are just as much of an American as Washington Lincoln or anyone else.
I agreed with Ronnie on this in 1988 and I agree with him today.
*American* isn’t really a race or ethnicity. I think that helps bolster Ronnie’s point. Someone moving to Türkiye may get citizenship but will never become ethnically Turkish, but that’s not really an issue at all in the US: move to the US, gain US citizenship, you are an American.
Obligatory disclosure that the US isn’t really exclusive on this. Most of the “New World” shares this trait: Brazil is arguably more integrated than the US, and similar can be said for Chile (which is less diverse, to be fair) and Argentina and Canada (which is a closer comparison).
Was true then about Japan and Germany. In some respects true now, but I don’t think it’s true about Germany anymore.
Turkey is a diverse country with extraordinarily complicated ethnic geopolitics. Strangely enough, when Reagan made that quote Turkey was admitting hundreds of thousands of Bulgarians, who now pretty exclusively identify themselves as Turkish a generation later. There’s even a word for the process by which people from other groups come to Turkey and become “Turkish” called Turkification.
Still is true. Go ask a German if his immigrant neighbors are German or if they come to the same functions as them or if they are even invited. Same with Japan or Turkey. People in America are much more open minded to others on average in my experience.
of those three countries, I think Germany has moved closer to the US model of this than it was when he said it. But it’s still basically true; it’s something we share with a lot of the Anglosphere and the postcolonial countries. CANZUK, Brazil, Argentina kind of come to mind.
In Europe, most countries were founded on the model of ethnic nationalism, as opposeed to the postcolonial countries, which were formed politically. So even in the more diverse European countries, there’s an ongoing debate and paradigm shift about what it is to be for example German — there’s German as a nationality, and German as an ethnicity. Compared to the Anglosphere and especially the postcolonial countries, there’s no ethnicity attached to being American or Canadian or Australian or Brazilian; these are only nationalities.
I do think Germany is moving in that direction, too, but it’ll be a while before those concepts are fully separated like they are in other places, since countries like the US and Canada have a much longer history of significant immigration than Germany does.
My father immigrated to the US in the mid 80’s so as a first-generation American, I would argue it’s even more true today than it was in 1988. America is way more diverse now.
It’s true then, it’s true now.
We’re a nation of immigrants. Except for the small fraction of the country that is Native American, we all came here (or our ancestors did) from elsewhere. We aren’t defined by a shared ethnic identity like most other countries.
If you come here and get your American citizenship, you’re an American.
It’s my understanding that for most countries, even if you get immigrate there and get citizenship there, you’ll never really be accepted there, especially if you aren’t of the dominant ethnic/racial identity. That’s not so in the US. If you immigrate here and get your citizenship, and especially if you make some honest effort to integrate into our society, we will accept you as an American.
As long as birthright citizenship is a thing it will always be true. Also we have a fairly easy naturalization process compared to most other countries in the world.
Very true.
I’ll use Mesut Özil’s quote about Germany for this
“I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose”
Regardless of your thoughts on the man, the quote is strong.
There are Americans born all over the world that just haven’t come home yet.
Culturally, absolutely. In terms of getting a green card/citizenship. It has gotten harder (simply because there are too many applicants for our old systems to handle)
💯 not a big Reagan fan but the comment is on point
Absolutely true from my personal experience.
I was born/raised in a Latin American country and moved to the U.S in my teens and eventually became a naturalized American in my 20’s. I now live in Switzerland.
I’ve mentioned this in other threads/subreddits but in the Latin American country of my birth I have always been othered solely because I’m of my Korean origin. This despite my family having lived there for close to 50 years.
I can’t just be “a random person” there. Either people on the street feel the urge to call me “Chinaman/Dirty chink” (not necessarily in a threatening way) or they want to know why I’m in the country/or why I speak Spanish fluently. Then there’s the women who run up to me just to let me know that they love KPop and Korean dramas and whether I can take a picture with them.
Being a nobody in the U.S is liberating.
Likewise, when someone in the U.S asks me where I’m from. They’re not asking about my face. If I respond with the State I grew up in, that’s good enough for them.
Super fucking true. My co-worker is Nigerian, and a permanent resident in his 30s. His kids are born here and just like any other American kids. He just bought a new house and invited me to a house warming BBQ where he is gonna be grilling burgers and serving up some Nigerian dishes, the names of which I can remember but involve plantain. He drinks shiner bock beer and loves BBQ brisket.
My wife’s sister is studying in Germany. She has been there for several years at this point, speaks pretty damn good German, She is still met with a lot of treatment as if she’s fresh off the boat and is eventually going to return “home” even though she has no real intention of returning to the US any time soon.
Not saying that there aren’t bigoted assholes here, and I don’t know if its even bigotry in Germany. But to me if I had a friend or co-worker who came from elsewhere, I’d be fascinated as to why they chose to come here (and specifically to my corner not just the US as a whole), what they like, what they don’t like. We need more people here, not less.
Anyone can become an American, but unfortunately, that doesn’t mean you’ll be treated as equal
It’s always been true. America is an idea, albeit imperfect sometimes, but we welcome people from every corner to come be a part of it. Bring your hope, skills, love, culture, language ,food and become a part of America.
A fantastic sentiment. Lots of truth to it.
I like a “high walls broad gates” policy towards immigration.
In Germany, despite being born and raised in the country, people who have Turkish immigrant parents are, themselves, still considered Turkish, not German. I believe that what Reagan said about this is still as relevant today as it was in 1988.
It’s true but it’s also true for most other countries. If I moved to, say, France and went through the immigration process and got citizenship. I’d be considered just as French as anyone else by the government.
100% still true. You see it everytime someone posts about finishing then naturalization process. People always saying “welcome home”
Absolutely. I’m in a conservative area, suburban/rural mostly.
I’m white, but all of My kids friends closest friends have at least one parent who is a first generation immigrant – well except my daughter who is herself a first generation immigrant. (Adopted internationally)
My Sons’ Boy Scout troop, at least 1/3 of the kids were second generation immigrants, and some of the adult leaders were first generation immigrants themselves who were naturalized (not native born) citizens. And the Boy Scouts are probably one of the most patriotic youth organizations out there.
There are a lot of Americans out there that weren’t born here, but got here as soon as they could. If they are willing to come here via legal means, and participate in our culture, and embrace our country’s values, they are welcome.
100% true. You come here, become a citizen, settle in, and you’re as American as I am.
I’ve done a lot of travel under the impression that I would leave America and find the country that was “right” for me.
This is the number one overwhelming difference I noticed in all my travels that really separates America from the rest. (Canada too, the UK mostly, Latin America idk enough about, but I think they have a similar but different vibe)
The assumption in many countries is that accepting immigrants is to accept them as guests, while in America it is to accept them as equals. I think this also explains why our political discourse on immigration sometimes sounds actually more xenophobic to foreigners, because our understanding of immigration requires much more acceptance.
1,000% true. Both then and now. I am from Venezuela who went to university in Europe and work/live now in the States. While Europeans were incredibly pleasant to me and I loved my time over there, I never became a “European”. They are very tolerant, yes, but also very protective of their culture. They simply won’t consider any non-native a true “Frenchman”, “German”, etc. Not out of spite of anything, just the dynamics of a European society.
The U.S. if you come over here, work hard, keep your nose clean, etc. they’ll consider you one of them almost immediately. There’s not even a second thought about it, you’re just kinda thrown in the mix..jaja.
Absolutely true and I didn’t appreciate this until I moved abroad and spent a few years in other countries.
The primary requirement for becoming accepted as a citizen for most countries is an appropriate birth certificate. The primary requirement for being accepted as an American is a desire to be American.
As a immigrant who try to get a green card for 5 years, I dont agree US is really open to immigrant.
I came here legally and know lots of people who try to get a green card. Maybe US people dont know the detail but all my fellow immigrants know this is not really a true
As a brown person born in the US, not true AT ALL
This is not true at all, given the constraints that this country put on immigration, especially following the Immigration Act of 1924, the Chinese Exclusion Act… to this day there are some 11 million Americans who came here to work, pay taxes, and still are “undocumented” because corporations cannily manipulate gullible conservatives into keeping farm workers and other migrants in a state of semi-vassalage.
I appreciate many of the other responses because *theoretically* what distinguishes the USA from other nations is our constitutional foundation in liberal democracy, not some kind of ethnic or religious or even historical community. Anyone can in theory become an American, but our democracy is a double edged sword. Any American can also vote for officials who arbitrarily deny entrance to immigrants based on race, religion, or, under Ronald Reagan, HIV status. Living in California, I know dozens of undocumented people who have lived here their whole lives but lack papers so they have no access to the federal govt or formal citizenship. I also know untold numbers of essentially wealthy privilege babies from abroad who got visas for all the wrong reasons.
Unlike most on the left, I am a big believer in the American dream and promise. However, we are not doing a good job living it with our current immigration policies. We need to legalize the laborers already here, import more factory and farm workers (and give them legal protections), and reform our skilled visa program to focus on recruiting medical and technology workers from abroad to rural America (which will kill two birds with one stone by providing desperate regions with crucial services while combatting xenophobia). We should’ve done this a decade ago, but surprise surprise our far right political party would rather keep undocumented people as serfs for their donors while whipping up a xenophobic rage so their voters don’t see that the Republican Party doesn’t give a shit about them.
TLDR: it’s a beautiful sentiment but we have a long way to go before this country is anything like what Reagan says it is
Edit: and although I would be remiss not to note that a democrat congress is the only hope for sustainable and just immigration reform, throughout their history the democrats have often been just as bad or even worse than the gop on this issue. Since the late 19th century, however, they have electorally catered to immigrant communities (who can also be xenophobic anyway lol) while the gop has catered to the white establishment. But, as always, neither can be trusted to “do the right thing” without sustained public activism and engagement