Autistic American here, I am curious as to what life is like both socially and economically across Europe in EU and non-EU member states alike.
In the US, we have places that are more tolerant towards autistic people (West Coast for example) and places that are less tolerant like the Southeast, where there is a strong conformist culture across all aspects of social life.
I imagine life would be best for autistic people in places like Scandinavia and the (notoriously direct and individualistic) Netherlands where tolerant cultures and good social safety nets abound (all things being relative at least). But I imagine life for autistic Europeans is worse in poorer places (with worse social safety nets) with more collectivist cultures such as the Balkans and Eastern Europe.
I could be wrong however and I am curious as to how you think life is for autistic Europeans. Do autistic people in your country feel as though they can be themselves? Are they able to sustain themselves economically? Etc.
25 comments
Autism is such a broad term, it’s difficult to give a general answer to this. One could have a mild variant of autism where they can perfectly live and work without any help. Others rely on intensive care and need help with a lot of aspects of life.
I don’t have autism myself although they did test me when I was young. I do know someone close to me who have strong variant of autism. He gets quite some intensive care, although he lives on his own with a lot of support from professionals and luckily family and friends. On the other hand, there are shortages in every aspect of healthcare.
As for society as whole I don’t think The Netherlands is particularly better for someone with autism. It’s not like this country is designed or better adapted to people with autism. I think our social safety is general ok, although it’s helps if you have a lot of support from family and friends. But I think the general public isn’t always aware of autism and how to deal with this. Like with many other disorders, when you don’t deal with this in your own life it’s hard to deal with this when you meet someone with a certain disorder. I don’t think it’s on purpose but simply people don’t know.
The social safety nets of most of Europe, but the northwestern parts in particular does guarantee a certain minimum standard of living, but there are also various programs to help people with autism, as well as other disorders, find jobs, and also to help them in other ways, to function as well as possible, that isn’t to say success is guaranteed for all, but at least serious attempts are made. And at least certain minimums are guaranteed.
> Scandinavia and the (notoriously direct and individualistic)
Wait, what?
Generally, autism spectrum disorders are seen, wrongly, as almost juvenile disorders in Denmark; they’re regarded as something you “grow out of.” In recent years, there has been more discussion of adult autism and ADD, but it isn’t something where I’d say it’s taken seriously.
Generally Denmark has a somewhat conformist culture, and there are certain behavioural patterns one is expected to follow. The idea of the “cold” or the “individualistic” Dane, and Scandinavians in general, is a myth; rather, what is the case is that there are _different_ social cues and norms for interaction, which may be just as difficult for people with an autistic disorder to conform to or read, as other places.
The people with autistic disorders I’ve interacted with, and who I know, generally share an experience of feeling as “outside” of the norms and have difficulty conforming and reading cultural cues; I don’t think any culture is “easier” or “better” for people on the autism spectrum than others, as the same problems which make it hard to fit into one community apply in other communities as well.
Our economic is weak, so of course they dont get enough help from the state. But there are atempts from great individuals to help. For example near my office was a cafe that employed people with hendicaps, they were so nice, shy and somehow the best waiters. Once I found out about the cafe I went there regulary.
In my experience (I am autistic), help for so-called mildly autistic people in Switzerland isn’t great. My therapist literally said that I seem to be fine, so I could just go on with my life. But if you want to get government support because you can’t deal with working full time, you have to prove that you’re unable to do that. But how do you prove something that literally only you can see?
I hope other Swiss people comment on this thread because I’d like to learn more about this myself.
Nobody really cares, I wouldn’t say there is a massive stigma, this goes both ways though nobody is really going to pick you out on it but unless severe you’re not getting support.
If you want diagnosed you will have to wait for several years, I got diagnosed when I was young and during the autism scare so I didn’t have to wait as long.
From life experience I would say any issues I’ve seen relating to autism are univerisal and not tied soley to the UK. There is the whole Andrew Wakefield vaccine autism scare but that was pretty short all in all.
I can only speak for low functioning autism as I have a brother and cousin with it and I also work in a residential home with autistic young adults.
Ireland is not ideal for an autistic person however there is understanding and sympathy when someone sees an autistic person having a crisis.
The city is not ideal for an autistic person. Long lines, busy streets, some people wanting to talk. I don’t have autism but being in a big town or city really triggers symptoms that I don’t even have..
The countryside is much better and we have a lot of it. Plenty of walks, beautiful scenery, cool temperate climate. We take our residents for walks everyday in my workplace because it regulates them and relaxes them so much, and we try to avoid the towns and cities.
Irish people are also very understanding. I’ve never seen an Irish person give a dirty look to an autistic person but I have seen it in other countries. I mentioned earlier that people will often talk to our residents. It’s not ideal but their heart is in the right place and it’s nice to see.
I think there is less misinformation about autism in northern europe than there is in the us.. almost everyone is aware that it’s a spectrum and that it has both disadvantages as well as certain advantages. My impression is that we are less ”afraid” of autism here. Many are autistic, sometimes you can tell and sometimes not, and in the end people are people.
Might be worth mentioning that our relatuvely high level of social security probably helps a lot too
I am autistic myself, female, grown up in Italy, now live in Finland. I could write a book on the subject, but as shortly as I can: as a kid, I was trapped in the genius/dumb dychotomia. Everything I was good at, was taken for granted and expected from me, to feed to the world. My family and surroundings (well before social media was invented) were extremely pushy in this regard. I hated the social interactions their vanity required (“read your composition to the lady!”) as you can imagine. They became very violent. My resistance, and in general my struggles in life, were ascribed to stubborness (because of course, being so smart, how could I stim/not make eye contact, etc.?). Doctors told my costernated parents I looked too childish for my age, and they started, partly because of this, to hide my toys. As a teen I was put on some medication which made me sleep all the time, in the classroom, at events. I had to take it for almost a year until I stopped on my own will. No other psychological support was granted other than the usual “you are smart, make your parents proud, obey them, but also don’t beat yourself up!”. When I finally left the house I was hospitalized a couple of times for meltdowns. No one ever suggested autism. The doctors were the most superficial people I’ve ever met. The suggestions were those you could find on a fortune cookie. I attempted suicide once. In the following years, I learned to respect my fatigue and to live according to my internal rhythms. Part of the reason why I moved to Finland. It is, simply put, less loud. A certain amount of loud noises can make me a disabled person, day after day. Allow me silence, I’ll function. This is becoming very long, but… in brief, I self-diagnosed at 32 and received confirmation, informally, from a professional. I had to leave a job for lack of accomodations, and since then I always disclose my autism in job interviews. I don’t get hired. Ignorance is profound in both countries, and if in Italy “strangeness” was dismissed as capricious, even outrageous, here it is evalued very seriously as a character’s fault, especially when social rules are not evident to oneself. I hope this comment won’t get removed, but it’s not all sunshine when you live as an autistic person among neurotypicals. Edit: typos.
I know at least 4 autistic people, all different degrees of autism. Life for 3 of them doesn’t differ from mine, 4th one can’t put a sentence together let alone change clothes, people are very understanding towards him but can’t really tell how he feels, just screaming shitting n kicking around.
I’m autistic and live in Belgium and it’s ehh. I’m an adult now but carrying a nice big backpack of trauma. I was diagnosed at 21, as I was starting on my last year of my higher education.
​
Work/Education:
– I was appointed an autism coach at school, who was supposed to be an expert but she instead let people scold me for being autistic. And she said the memorable words “If you keep acting like this you’ll never find a job, love, or keep friends around.” She went as far as keeping meetings with my classmates to see if they could still cope being around someone such as myself. She was one of the most traumatising people I’ve ever met in my adult life and she was an expert and even after my parents put in a formal complaint she wasn’t let go and kept working with autistic people.
– When I graduated there was actually a discount for companies for hiring me. The rules are too complex to understand as an autistic person so you need a specific person to help you with these rules. But the waiting lists for these people are ridiculous and they are so overworked they aren’t actually helpful. And if you “look normal” then they’ll downplay all your issues and not actually help at all.
– I had a real job once after my education and I got sick from a burn out because my colleague found it normal to scream at me for struggling with memory issues that are pretty common in autistic people. He was informed I’m autistic. But people just forget you are autistic unless you flap with your hands or something. Sentences like “You don’t look autistic” are extremely common. I was let go under the health and work laws, which ment I received no benefits for being fired.
– I was never able to go back to work. I had to apply for disability benefits which are heavily biased against invisible things like autism. The only reason I got accepted for it is because I had a good team of my parents, a psychologist and a psychiatrist around me who helped putting together my case and I had one of my parents go to the doctors appointment with me and they had to slightly exaggerate everything so I could get the help that I really needed.
But these things fundings aren’t made for people who can still somewhat function. Which is unfair because the higher odds on depression, anxiety, bowel issues, etc that come with being autistic. And how that all gets worse by being in stressful environments and you are exposed more to those if you have to go outside and work in a normal environment. They let somewhat functioning autistics crash and burn rather than maintain a quality life.
– There are supposed to be safe work spaces for disabled people here but the people from the government where like: yeah you either need to be fast (folding boxes, stacking pralines in boxes) or you need to be physically able (I got other health issues) so there was nothing for me. There is no open database you can scroll through and be like: oh this is something that would fit me.
You rely on these people from the government to properly look for you and once you “seem normal” they don’t take your concerns seriously. I had one that kept swearing that a certain job wasn’t available “to people like me”, while I had a family member work as a coach in that company and I was told that it was exactly the correct environment for me. I was able to get into the program, while the government coach claimed I couldn’t. So there is misinterpretation going on from what autism really means and what can and can’t be done due to it.
​
Society wise:
– We are a pretty rude society imo. People don’t know how to queue, there is far too much pushing and pulling in queues.
– Society is working on getting some quiet times at some places like grocery stores but it’s so minimal that I can’t even find one single example in my area.
– I get judged so badly if I tell people I don’t have a job and can’t work due a disability and I get treated like a leach. There is too little understanding of what autism is, so that people don’t get why a regular job can be hard.
– “you don’t look autistic” is a popular sentence. People still put autism on a scale from non existent to extremely bothersome and it’s seen from the neurotypical point of view “this person is less struggle = mildly autistic” “This person is a pain in the ass = very autistic” But this is probably an overall problem.
– Most help you look for as an autistic person is aimed at children.
I live in greece and its probably underdiagnosed but ive never heard anyone even mention autism. Its strange because when i lived in the US i heard people talk about autism almost daily
As a spectrum in itself my experiences will probably differ from 99 of 100 others but whatever. I’m very high functioning and I’ve got to the point where masking is an unconscious effort so overall my life is smooth enough. School check up on me every so often just to ask me some questions to make sure I’m doing alright – in my case it’s never necessary but I’m fine with it cos ik should I need it the help is there. Socially, 99% of people don’t care and the 1% of people who do care are just pricks you wouldn’t want to associate with anyway. I’m generally quite a social guy and I live firmly in the “friendliness to strangers is normal” half of the UK so I could see someone more quiet and introverted struggling with that. Our queueing culture does help for someone on the spectrum cos I could see the more… disorderly queues in other countries being somewhat stressful. Supermarkets have low stimulus times where people with autism (or people who just want a quiet shop) can go and be uninterrupted. Overall I wouldn’t feel hindered by my autism but I recognise I probably get it quite good given my high functioning + how I’m quite social anyway
I’m currently in the process of a diagnosis as an adult and I think your question is based on a bit of generalisation of terms and misinformation/stereotyping of European regions.
As several people already pointed out, Autism Spectrum Disorder is a broad term. You can be high-functioning and live pretty much a normal life or require siginificant specialized care. I don’t subscribe to the idea that a certain region or country in Europe is better or worse culturally suited to deal with “autism” because the term encompasess a broad range of symptoms. Regarless of where on the continent you live, the dificulties you will encounter due to your neurodivergent condition will never be easier, only the level at which you have access to diagnostic services and specialized care, the degree to which it is subsidized, if at all, and general social attitudes towards them differ. In that case, yes, you could say it’s better to be diagnosed in say Western or Northern Europe than in Eastern Europe because social attitudes are overall better and you can more easily access necessary help, but the differences aren’t astronomical.
In Romania it’s actually 50/50.
People are either extremely helpful or extremely hateful, so it’s kinda hard, you basically have to test the waters first.
My brothers both have autism, and while it is hard for them to integrate,they both got awesome groups of neurotipical kids who shield them from hate and parents who help then more than my nonconfruntational parents can.
As a rule of thumb here,the older the person is,the more bigotted their worldviews. Things go very slowly in the right direction tho so here’s hoping that by the time my bro’s are 18 the romanian society will be better
autistic person here, from my experience the uk as a whole isnt extremely accepting towards autistic people. the bullying/ableism is quite bad, especially when you’re in school (not just from students, but also teachers). and the economic support needs to be reformed or something, i wasnt given the help/support i needed simply (not even joking) because i was able to wash and clothe myself, they just completely ignored every other problem i had just because of those 2 things.
I’m autistic and dutch and it’s pretty good I’m now getting help to learn and in themparks i can could go in a special lane to not get overstimuladed
Born and lives why whole life in Scotland, diagnosed when I was 5 when I started primary school. On the whole most people I’ve encounter don’t cares and make reasonable expectations. Like I don’t like overhead lights, so when I’m working at the office I’m sat further away from direct lights as just one example.
At school and university I got extra time to sit written exams. For the most part my country gives subtle help of you want it. I was offered a whole heap of support at university which I declined, such as someone to write notes for me and the like. If I felt I need support it was available but I didn’t feel like I needed it.
I personally have never had any hostility over my autism, but I can’t speak for every person in Scotland.
Most people are considerate and it’s pretty fine for me here, can’t think of any way I’ve been wronged or its not gone well for me. I did well in school, I could learn things pretty easily but still did struggle with some aspects
I’m autistic (diagnosed at 16, now 18)
There’s really not a lot to say, I don’t feel particularly judged by people, I’m more kind of ignored, but that could happen for a lot of different reasons, it’s not like autism causes you to be an outcast while being depressed, bipolar, “weird” etc. don’t sometimes.
To be honest now that I’m thinking about it I could be feeling ignored rather than judged because I prefer keeping my opinions and thoughts to myself if there’s a possibility they could make me seem weird or like a moron. I’m very reseved usually, and I follow the societal norms when I’m with strangers (that is anyone outside my family or some people I talk to online).
I received support from the State but it wasn’t very useful apart from the “regular” psychiatry appointments I have been having well before the diagnosis.
Other than that the thing that helps is the psychoanalysis sessions my family pays.
Netherlands here.
I was diagnosed with depression a while ago and this led to my psychiatry suggesting an evaluation which led me to getting psychological education (currently still following) and ambulant help once a week and this all followed each other up quite quickly within the span of 2 years
Still sucks being on the spectrum tho
ETA just realized this is on Ask Europe, so feel free to downvote/delete if not relevant.
As a person from the US who has worked in residential housing for severe mental and physical impairments, I would say as far as treatment goes it’s not great. My title was Direct Support Professional. Most of the clients I worked with did not have contact with any family. Most of my coworkers had little care for the job. I would say these people are often regarded as a burden or less than. Most are sweet individuals with their own struggles that are not of any fault of their own. Even the most violent person I worked with was not that way just to be violent. He had overstimulation issues from autism and no coping skills. Still a very sweet person outside of those moments. Another issue was that their care was often minimal to basic needs (food, bathing, meds). There weren’t enough workers to do much else by way of enrichment, nor did most of the workers seem to care that much. The case workers outside of the residential facility were absolutely overloaded with clients and could barber barely do anything for the clients because of this. They were supposed to see them once a month and that basically never happened. In my opinion the system is failing them. The people that work with them are paid very little and the work is stressful and dangerous. Many of my coworkers had little relevant education (I had a bach degree in psychology). My position made around 20k full time, the case workers made just over 30k full time ($10-15 an hour). I could go on and on about this, but I think my point is clear. Happy to answer any questions!
(Sweden)
I am not autistic but my brother is on the spectrum and I have to say things have turned out okay for him. He’s never faced bullying in school, of course there are some pricks but that’s just a fact of life eh. It’s never caused him any real hardship. There’s also been extensive help for him during his time in school (public schools, not private) which is great
Experiences obviously differ greatly since it is a spectrum and not a binary trait. Also we are from a decent enough socio-economic background, things I would guess are very different depending on where someone lives and goes to school
I’m in Poland, it’s not great, things are changing but slowly.
I don’t see any French commenting there, compared to most other main european countries in terms of population… oh yes, they aren’t diagnosed yet (if they ever will…). So you can imagine how far behind we are (usually we are considered to be 50 years behind other countries in Western Europe and North America)