New England has better HDI than other US regions, how different is the quality of life than let’s say the South ?

34 comments

  1. Unbelievably different. Most of New England travels via flying cars or, failing that, being pulled around on a rickshaw by people from lesser states. As a New Yorker, I live in fear of raiding parties. They often cross the border to kidnap us, then trap us in the matrix in order to power their gleaming cities, such as Pawtucket.

  2. Marginally better. But you also have to remember those are aggregate measures and aren’t the same across the state. Massachusetts has trap houses in Lawrence as well as Boston’s affluent western suburbs.

  3. The south used to be **so much worse** on life expectancy & average incomes: two integral parts of the HDI scores. And rapid development tends to lead to big urban/rural divides since all the new dynamism tends to go to cities first…places like Charlotte & Raleigh are doing very well but once you get out of the bigger NC cities it is still pretty miserable in a lot of parts.

  4. Had to Google HDI. Just moved from Shreveport Louisiana to Pittsburgh. It seems a lot better up here.

  6. As someone else said: there’s a noticeable difference if your poor, and marginal to no difference if you’re wealthy. Middle class, it depends on specific circumstances whether you’ll notice a difference or not. Also – that’s for long term living in the region. If you’re a tourist just passing through, unless you’re dumb enough to travel through a rundown area (and New England has plenty of those, too), then you won’t notice any difference.

  7. It is barely noticeable if you are middle or upper class. If you are poor, there are subtle but meaningful differences. New England has more social safety nets and social programs. Overall, if you are a 18 year old from a poor family, you have a much better shot at getting an education and finding a middle class life in New England that in the Deep South.

    Also schools are far superior. Not just the Ivey league colleges, public schools. My mother was a public school teacher in NY. When she retired she went to work for a textbook company. Her job was to go into school districts that had purchased their textbook program and train the teachers on the program. She traveled all over the US doing this for 10+ years. Her opinion is that she does not want to see her grandkids educated in the south. New England, NY/NJ, Maryland, PA are all about 10 years ahead of where schools in the south are. That kids graduating high school in the south wouldn’t be prepared to pass middle school in NY.

  8. Oh boy another shit on the south thread.

    If you’re rich very little difference. Poor folks would probably have an easier time up north with additional safety nets. Middle class is probably hit and miss depending on location.

  9. Bear in mind that “New England” is six separate states, not a monolith. We’re also talking about averages here, not specific instances, but the main difference is in public amenities and services. Our safety net for the vulnerable is better; our healthcare is more accessible and of higher quality; our education system is leagues better. Basically, all that stuff that conservatives positively refuse to put money into.

    If I were a young buck again with no family and fewer concerns, I might spend some time down South. There are good things about it. But now that I’m married with a young daughter? Not a chance.

  10. You’re using a specific metric and asking for anecdotal answers on massive areas of land in states that have different laws, different social safety net programs, different weather, etc. Is Quality Of Life better in Connecticut than in Georgia? Based on what? For whom?

    HDI is wildly complicated once you start breaking it down. “Quality of life” without definition is such an abstract term, everyone responding is using their own definitions. What factors are weighed heavier in the HDI calculation? What if one person’s “quality of life” means not shoveling snow? What if another person hates humidity and their “quality of life” is improved living close to a deli?

    This is an unanswerable question because your terms aren’t defined and HDI and Quality of Life indexes are very complicated. Do very broad indexes show that the “quality” of schools is better in Massachusetts than in South Carolina? Sure. Does that mean people in South Carolina are that indexes percentage less educated or have less of an opportunity to succeed in life? Of course not.

  11. I grew up in MA, spent a few years in PA and TX each, and now I’ve moved back to MA.

    PA was weird only because my wife was in medical school, but once she was a resident in Austin, Texas was pretty damn great. Two of us without any kids lived a great life in Texas, especially while renting. We eventually bought a house that, mostly through luck, appreciated pretty quickly.

    There was a recent post on some other sub that pointed out why the quality of life is worse in a lot of Southern states and its because they refuse to expand Medicaid. So if you’re poor in those states, you’re far likelier to be in medical debt.

    If you’re rich, and only care about you/your family, then I’d say the South is a better place to be. You can afford to move to a nicer town with a good public school system and your kids will grow up just fine. You can fly your daughter to another state when/if she needs an abortion. You can basically live in a rich bubble (which most richer folks do anyways).

    For my wife’s fellowship, we moved back up to MA, and I’m really glad we did. Sure, it is more expensive, but I think you get what you pay for. Also, my personal view is that my community’s health is as important as mine. So MA does a better job providing for a wider range of folks than most southern states would.

  12. It is very different. I live in New England and it is the greatest, richest, coolest, best place on earth.

  14. The lifestyles of the middle class and upward are essentially the same nationwide; it’s not particularly different being a middle class person in Connecticut than it is in Georgia.

    Wealthy people are basically living excellently everywhere.

    Poor folks are generally better off in New England, except the very bottom of the ladder, the homeless, who face freezing temperatures in the winter up there that they wouldn’t in the south. But on the flip side, there are more services and shelters up there.

  15. Think this is more of an urban/rural divide question, with more people in New England having college degrees and being concentrated in cities than in the South. But adjusted for education and income level, it’s probably not going to vary that much- being well educated and having money will always be different. Though granted, New England states (bar NH) do have much better social safety nets, though this could be countered with a much higher COL

  17. My cousin had to go to Boston to deliver some vittles and while he was there he found a quarter on the sidewalk. He must have talked about that quarter for two weeks and all the stuff he was going to buy with it. Ended up buying a nice 60 acre property. Now he’s a land baron and is running for the US senate.

  18. Extremely similar. If your poor with chronic medical conditions, the northeast is probably better. Otherwise? Standards of living are pretty near identical. More expensive in the northeast, but also higher wages and government aid is easier to obtain (but still challenging). If you don’t qualify for government aid, the south is cheaper and quality of day to day life is basically a same.

  19. Quality of life for me and my business depends on not having shitty cold snowy winters, so New England would be absolutely horrible for me. Being down south allows me to work all year and the cost of living is relatively inexpensive compared to either coast.

  20. Life expectancy is 5 years less in Mississippi than in Massachusetts. So while quality of life is lower in Mississippi, they don’t have to put up with it as long.

  21. Healthcare is a pretty big difference. I freelance for a living and I’m able to get affordable Health insuramce through my NE state. I looked into moving south for a year or 2 and the difference in health insurance for a self employed person in the south vs. where I am now was HUNDREDS of $$/per month. Not feasible so I never went.

    After taking into account that public school in NE consistently test higher than in the south. If you’re generally healthy, middle class and have health insurance through work then day to day quality of life is prob not too different. More people in NE fall into the middle class or above financial bracket than in the south. This is prob why the HDI is high in NE compared to other places in the U.S.

    Being poor sucks no matter where you are, but you will generally have a bit more resources in NE. Biggest diff IMO is healthcare and affordability assistance in NE that doesn’t exist in the south. Prices everywhere in the U.S. are inflated and the system is broken everywhere, but most NE hospitals and states have payment assistance that works with patients on sliding scales. Programs designed to lower costs for lower income or middle class patients. Those are MUCH more limited in the south.

    So you’re rocking along being middle class in, idk, Mississippi where your life is more or less the same quality as someone from Massachusetts. You get in a car accident and are severely injured and suddenly you have $50k in medical bills with limited ability to work. Well, you’re no longer middle class. Now you’re poor and basically just shit out of luck. Same thing happens in Mass and after an annoying # of phone calls you have to make while injured you get that bill reduced by 70% not completely wrecking you financially. You’re MA health insurance fully covers rehabilitation. It ain’t the best quality rehab out there, but it’s something. It’s still a pretty shit and expensive situation, but it doesn’t ruin you financially. I think this is the main difference between living in NE vs. the south.

  22. I’ve lived everywhere. Spent considerable time in MA while growing up. I now live in Georgia.

    Quality of life for the poor is probably better in the NE.

    Quality of life for middle class and the rich is vastly better in the South.

    We have some incredible public school districts that rival private academies. My local high school has an equestrian team and routinely sends a majority of kids to top universities.

    Cost of living is much lower. I live like a king here for what would be average in Chicago or Boston.

  23. I live in a very average Massachusetts community.

    About every 2 years I get a letter with a bottle left on my front step. It advises that in 2 days they ant me (as soon as I get up and the first water that comes from the tap) to put water in the bottle and then someone will come over and pick it up that day. Then I get a report letting me know the water is safe. A bad storm? I can call DPW and they will show up to move branches or something. They go to old people’s houses to shovel them out.

    When the pandemic hit and kids had to stay home, computers and wifi were issues for the poor. They gave students laptops and parked vans that were wifi hot spots in vulnerable neighborhoods.

    Schools are the obvious stand out. We have good schools and I’ve never met any of my kids’ teachers that didn’t seem pretty great. And I got to listen to all of their classes all through the pandemic. Impressive.

    Most towns have transport vans and a very good senior center. They pick up and drop off elderly at appointments, have medical professionals come to the senior center and serve meals.

    Medical care free for the poor. Dental care is free for poor kids. The level of the health care over all.

    Most towns – even pretty small ones – have employees dedicated to veterans and the arts/recreation. Recreation department runs stuff like the town outdoor movies, concerts, and special events like bingo, ice rink, town pool, town summer camp, board game nights. Art council grants from the state cover stuff like the weekly summer concerts in the lawn, kids concerts at the libraries and magicians, etc. The grants are generous and really help musicians financially.

    Unemployment are way more generous and you are more likely to get it. And you are more likely to get it. Florida – only 7% of those unemployed actually get it, only for 12 weeks, and it’s a bit of a measly amount. Here is like 65% and for 30 weeks.

    I know it seems like a small thing but no stray dogs.

    No one is going to come to Worcester (it’s one of our cities considered high crime) and say wow – this is like living in Dubai. It just seems like a regular city. But when I go there I run into target that’s across from the projects and don’t stress about locking my car. I don’t lock my house or garage and haven’t since I’ve owned a homes for the past 30 years.

    Just like everywhere there are poor and mentally ill, but there is a little bit better safety net. There’s poor immigrants, we are like 7th for most foreign born. Plus 10% of our population is Puerto Rican.

    My husband leans towards democrat policies because he wants to have a good life, I lean democrat policies because I want everyone to live a good life. I don’t feel like we are WAY different than other states but I will say when my Florida family stays here, their comments remind me that some things really are tangibly different. I think it’s the sum of it’s parts. No one or 2 stand out things.

  24. No difference with the exception of the weather, if that impacts one’s quality of life. Nice parts/not nice parts and good things/not good things in both places.

  25. If you are poor in NE its basicslly the same as bei g poor in the South.

    Its has a higher proportion of richer people, especially old inherited wealth but that doesnt mean anything except stats like averages. People dont live in the averages though. Except median stuff anyway.

  26. Much higher taxes and pretty strict laws about every little thing (except New Hampshire). So living up to the “England” part of the name. New Englanders often make more money than Southerners though.

    You often get what you pay for though. New England’s social services are very extensive and efficient, at least by US standards. New England states like Massachusetts are often the model for expanding or improving social services on a national level.

    New England has four seasons, so if you don’t mind being cold once in a while it’s not bad.

    You can get by more with public transport than in the South if that matters to you.

    New England is generally wealthier than the South, so the cost of goods and the standard of quality people are used to is a bit higher.

    Aside from that the differences are more cultural and political.

  27. Like night and day- the south has never recovered from the civil war except texas probably but i mean. . . texas is like five states put together

  28. I live in New England but have traveled through the South a bit. One thing I will say is the poor sections of the South are so I unfathomly poor as compared to the poor regions of New England that I almost thought I was in one of those old Sally Struthers ads where $2 a day could change a kids life.

  29. I’ll bite. I think there’s some major pieces people are missing here. Obviously education is important, but I don’t think people realize just how much better and well funded the education system is in Massachusetts specifically, but most of New England. If MA was a country it would be a top 10 country in the world in education.

    Another benefit of the great education system is it affects how people vote. People understand how supporting each other helps all of us, so we vote for things like state funded family and medical leave (which the US government does not provide), state funded medical for low income house holds (See Mass Health).

    Education also helps the industry types in MA that bring in a ton of money and pay a ton. BioMed, Tech, Medical, Higher education, etc. Which leads to more money in tax revenue and better public services and the like. New England’s GDP is over $1.3 trillion, or ~$77k per capita. One of the highest in the world (~4th).

    Not to mention violent crime rates (especially in northern New England) are the lowest in the country. You have a very safe region, where people vote and act to help each other, the best educated by a large margin, with some of the best paying jobs in the country.

    Everyone is unique though and what may be important to me may not be important to others. I am just laying out the facts. New England is expensive to live in generally, but it’s worth every penny to me.

  30. As someone who spent the first 20 years of my life in New England (Connecticut) and has been in the South for the past 3-or-so years, I’d say I feel my quality of life is leaps and bounds better. Granted, I grew up rather low income in Connecticut, so getting by was very hard, but the cost of living being significantly lower down here has made my quality of life *seem* better. The weather has also contributed to the increased quality of life as well. I struggled terribly with seasonal affective disorder when I lived in New England.

  31. I grew up in Michigan and moved to New England after I graduated college. I’ve been here almost 20 years now, and I’ll say that for certain, it’d be harder to be poor here because of the cost of living. We also have horrible infrastructure in Connecticut. We pay the second highest rates for electricity, but we lose power every time the wind blows. I live in Litchfield county and I can’t for the life of me understand what my taxes are being used for. Everyone is on septic systems. Everyone has a well. We all burn oil because there’s no natural gas infrastructure. The towns are beautiful though and I love living here. I just wish there was more return on my investment. You can be poor in Michigan and own your own property. Here, the property taxes effectively ensure that anyone who is poor lives in a shitty apartment in a shitty part of town.

  32. I grew up middle class in Connecticut. The education system there is extraordinarily better than most of the states. There’s a lot wrong with Connecticut, but there’s a lot to admire as well.

    One of the biggest differences between the high HDI states and low ones is the statistics around if you’re born poor there, how likely are you to remain that way for the rest of your life.

    Also, there’s something to be said for living a comfortable life in a place where others are also comfortable vs living comfortably where others near you are suffering.

  34. Better social safety nets have made the poorest areas be effectively middle class by southern USA standards. Go to the poor areas of boston and compare it to the poor areas of birmingham or jackson and its a pretty incredible difference in terms of blight, poverty, crime etc

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