My girlfriend didn’t outright call me a misogynist or anything, but she did express that it was thinking rooted in misogyny. I just wanted to reach out to y’all to ask your thoughts on this subject and educate me if I’m wrong with my thinking.
My girlfriend and I were having a conversation about boundaries and what would be okay in our eyes. She is a bisexual female and I am a heterosexual male. I have expressed that I would be okay if she wanted to casually see females so she can explore her bisexuality but I would not be okay if she was seeing males. One thing that I said was that I do see men more as competition and the thought grosses me out but the thought of women don’t gross me out. She then says that my line of thinking means that I don’t see men and women the same and my thinking is rooted in misogyny.
I haven’t really done a lot of introspection or reasoning in my thinking, but I am **obviously** going to say that my thinking isn’t misogynistic. In my eyes, I think the thought of her playing with other women is fine (and turns me on) but the thought of other men fills me with dread. What do y’all think? Roast me if you have to, but I would love to see where the discussion might lead.
Edit: I just want to emphasize that by competition, I did not mean to insinuate that the emotional connection between a woman and a woman is any lesser. I did not mean competition from an emotional sense. I’ve explained this in a comment, but I think that part of this aggression and “competition” I feel is rooted in the fact that I don’t trust a lot of men (if any) and I wouldn’t feel comfortable with my girlfriend being with any other guy because of that. This also lines up with the fact that my most trusted friends tend to be female.
Also I love the conversation in the comments, even if it’s getting heated. I’m definitely learning a lot of viewpoints. The One Penis policy is definitely something people should read up on, especially if they’re in the camp of “OP isn’t a misogynist.” I still think that my line of thinking delineates from that idea, but it certainly has aspects that I’ve internalized
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Any chance you don’t see sex between two women as “real sex?” Really think about that, maybe deep down you believe that you need a penis involved for it to be “real” sex.
If you do, it’s not your fault you believe this. You can’t help how you were raised, until you’re an adult and can examine your beliefs more closely.
I think it’s rooted in this part right here
> One thing that I said was that I do see men more as competition
In reality, she could be just as likely to leave you for a woman as a man
Think of it like this:
Why do you not want your gf to have sex with another guy? Because if you let your gf fuck other dudes, you’re a cuck
But what would you describe yourself as if your gf has sex with other girls? If you think that this is hot and you aren’t a cuck in this situation, then your thinking is rooted in misogyny because you think that lesbian sex isn’t “real sex”
Well the fact that you don’t see women as a threat/competition means you don’t take her attraction to women as seriously, as if it’s just “for fun”. I would say that’s rooted in homophobia as well as sexualisation of lesbians. Either you’re monogamous if you don’t want the risk of her catching feelings for someone else etc, or you’re in an open relationship where you trust that her sexual feelings for other people, regardless of gender will not come in the way of the relationship she has with you.
You can have whatever sexual boundaries you like, but she is sort of right. If you only see men as competition and not women too, then you fundamentally misunderstand her sexuality. She is just as likely to leave you for a woman and is telling you that. You can decide whether you’re fine with that or not.
You only see men as competition because you don’t think she’ll leave you for a woman. If it’s not misogynistic aka a penis needs to be involved for me to think of it as real sex and therefore lesbian sex isn’t sex and can’t be threatening to my relationship with her, it’s at least biphobic aka she won’t leave me for a woman because clearly her attraction to woman isn’t _that_ serious.
To my mind cheating is cheating regardless of gender. But if she wants to be with a woman then thats a boundary you are setting. As some have already said IMO if my partner wanted to be woth a women how could i compete, im not a woman. However i wouldnt want her to be with another man .
This is one of those subjects that’s fairly complicated and nuanced, but gets oversimplified when people try to condense it down to a two sentence comment.
You feel the way you feel. You said yourself that you haven’t put a lot of thought into why. This is what people mean when they talk about a bias.
As for whether or not your bias is based in misogyny, I’m not so sure. You said that you don’t view other women as competition. I don’t know if that would technically be misogynistic or homophobic, but I would say it’s heteronormative. You’re viewing the world through the lens of a straight man, thinking that your girlfriend would only leave you for another straight man, when really – as others have pointed out – women are absolutely your competition as well.
Though thinking of others as competition for your girlfriend does feel rooted in misogyny. Women do not mindlessly go towards whoever has the biggest muscles or highest income or best opening line. Your girlfriend chose to be with you, and she continues to make that choice every day. You have to have faith that she will continue to make that same choice.
You’re on a good track, though. Keep thinking about how you feel and keep asking yourself why you feel that way.
it’s kind of fetishizing bisexuality at the very least
That depends. Are you in an open relationship or are you just granting her space to explore with women?
Bro your preferences are your preferences
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I share your preferences. Idk why Reddit is trying to make things equal.
Sex ual relationship dynamics *don’t have to be equal*. It’d be nice if they were – a noble ideal – **but in the real world they are almost never equal**.
That’s just life. Do you see true equality in familial relationships? Or friendship relationships? What about equality between mentor-mentee relationships?
*Of course not*. So you have a right to your preferences, just as she has her right to hers. She might think you’re an asshole. You might even be an asshole. But as long as you’re okay with that, what’s the problem?
Look out for yourself and your relationship with the girlfriend. Don’t put equality first; put yourself and you with your gf first. Equality is icing on top of the cake
You ask any married couple about equality and they’ll laugh in your face. *It doesn’t really exist. There’s no equality among men (racism, classism, ablism, agism, etc). Why would you expect equality within a sexual relationship to be any different?*
Your comment about seeing men as competition and feeling grossed out by the thought of your girlfriend being with other men could be linked to internalized societal stereotypes about women as objects of sexual desire for men.
This is because **if** you see men as competition, it implies that you view your girlfriend’s sexual experiences as a way to validate your own masculinity or to assert control over her in a way.
This view is rooted in the idea that women’s sexual experiences are primarily for the benefit of men, and can be a manifestation of misogyny. It’s important for you to gain insight on your beliefs and challenge any that may be harmful or perpetuate gender stereotypes.
Additionally, expressing that you’re okay with your girlfriend being with other women but not men could be seen as objectifying and fetishizing lesbian relationships, which often involves reducing same-sex relationships between women to a sexual fetish, without acknowledging the emotional and romantic aspects of those relationships.
This attitude reduces same-sex relationships between women to a mere sexual fantasy for the benefit of heterosexual men, which can be harmful and disrespectful to those who identify as lesbian or bisexual.
I’d suggest that you invest some time to gain more self-awareness about your own motivations and attitudes towards same-sex relationships, and to ensure that you are respectful and considerate of not only your partner’s boundaries and feelings, but also same-sex relationships.
I agree with your girlfriend. I’m a bi woman as well.
1. You see men as competition but not other women.
She’s just as capable of finding a woman who she wants to be exclusive with causing her to leave you. My ex felt the same way and after we broke up I ended up in a relationship with a woman. I’m actually the second woman who after dating him ended up dating a woman so maybe eventually he’ll see women as equals.
2. The idea of her having sex with women is a turn on for you
I had a friend who fetishized my same sex relationship and would ask me about it. He’d ask me about if we had sex and ask if we wanted to do a threesome. I cut him out of my life and blocked him on all social media so fast.
And you saying that you find that a turn on is fetishizing it. Are you giving her permission to explore for her benefit or yours?
3. The idea of her having sex with men grosses you out.
How are you defining sex?
Women having sex together doesn’t automatically mean it’s this delicate process with flowers, teddy bears, and soft moans. I’m fact statistics show it’s more satisfying than hetero sex.
Either open your relationship and trust her or be monogamous.
And perhaps some introspection is in order. I want to believe that you haven’t been in a position to really reflect on these views before but now is definitely a good time to think about it good and hard.
>One thing that I said was that I do see men more as competition
As a bisexual female, if I was seeing a man and casually dating females, I would have a hard time settling for a man at the end of the day. Based on the standard of relationship burden, household burden and day to day life burden set by a female partner vs a male partner, it’s not even close. In my experience it is so much nicer to have a female partner, I begrudgingly date men too
You’re not a misogynist but your gf is right that you don’t see men and women the same on this issue. Which makes some sense: she’s bisexual (sexually/romantically attracted to men and women) and you’re heterosexual (a man sexually/romantically to women only).
It’s not a bad thing to be open about your feelings. If my wife said she wanted to explore something with another woman, I’d probably be open to it within certain boundaries mainly because it’s something that I can’t can’t give her. If she wanted other men, then it would feel like I would be second best to someone else because I would give her the same thing, if that makes sense.
Also, if thinking about your partner with a woman turns you on, and thinking about your partner with a man does the opposite, that is also fine. You decide what you are into.
So many great comments and viewpoints are being shared. I want to ask the OP how he would feel if she did leave him for another woman that he said he was ok for her to be with. Would he feel differently than if she left for another man and if so why?
The answers would probably just provide him with more insight on his true feelings and bias in this situation 🤷🏻♂️
Maybe you see her as bisexual but hetroromantic, so you don’t see women as a threat to your relationship, and perhaps you’re sexually open minded and not jealous to be okay with her playing with women but not with men because she may be develop a romantic attraction to them.
Also, you may think you don’t have any way to compete with what women can offer her, since it’s such a different experience, so you don’t even try – you let her enjoy herself. Perhaps you know your girlfriend is deeply attracted to masculinity and that you can offer that to her, whereas you cannot offer femininity so perhaps you don’t see it as such a big deal for her to get it elsewhere, since otherwise it would just be depriving her of that. This could be considered a form of gendered non-monogamy.
You only feel that way about it because you don’t perceive women as being a threat to you. Newsflash: if she fell in love with a woman she’d be just as gone from you as if it were a man. You also like it because it’s hot to you…not that this would be taking place in front of you or for you, it’s for her. You don’t really factor in here.
That you don’t consider the idea of her being with women potentially dangerous or whatever in the way you do men indicates that you don’t really think of her sexuality as being genuine…that it’s a thing there that’s titillating to you but it doesn’t have the potential to hurt you.
Either the relationship is open and she can have sex with other people (and so can you) or it’s not.
OP, you should start seeing women as competition. My girl’s fiancé told her she could see women and now she and I have been together for nearly 5 years 😂
Honestly you can set whatever boundary you would like in any relationship. I will go against the grain of r/sex and say yes that’s fine.
First, I can see and agree to some degree when people say that that idea is routed in misogyny or homophobic ideals. However, when it comes to setting boundaries all it comes down to what you can live with. Because at the end of the day it’s your relationship with your partner.
If you partner isn’t happy about the situation or idea, you both have 4 options.
1. Someone gives into other’s request / boundaries
2. Reach a compromise regarding this
3. Do not venture into an non-monogamy relationship
4. Break up
Monogamous relationship have been the default because they are simpler. They have clearly defined rules and boundaries that exist. If you are going to be having a non-monogamous relationship, you and your partner will have to decided on the boundaries together whatever they may be.
Secondly, If you partner does end up getting into other relationship it’s important to respect those other relationship if they will exist. So although you may not view women as competition, that fact of the matter remains your partner is attracted to women and therefore they are competition. Also, do not fetishize her other relationship if they do occur.
Third, dating or sex is the one area in life when it’s ok to be discriminatory. It’s your life and you only have one. You have to acknowledge though, that she may not want a relationship within those boundaries you have proposed and it would be 100% alright if she decide to use one of those same 4 options above and break up with you.
Non monogamy has no rules. The two in the relationship make the rules. You are fine.
A lot of people point out that yes, if it’s because you don’t see queer sex as sex/are not threatened by women bc they couldn’t “take your gf away”.
I agree with this.
However, there are other explanations.
E.g
She is bisexual, and you want her to be able to explore that in ways she is inherently unable to with you. (Comparatively, if she wants to explore her sexuality with people whose bodies are similar to yours, why not just with you?)
The idea that she is simply exploring her sexuality feels more comfortable than the idea of her just wanting to be with other people.
Her being with a woman feels less comparable to the two of you being together.
I think people get a bit stuck on the idea that relationships between same sex partners should be seen as equivalent to opposite sex partners. I strongly believe this is true in most circumstances, but when it comes to sex, it is just inherently different. Peoples bodies are different, and these interact in inherently different ways. Sure, there are huge variations within each group in the way people approach sex and the sex acts they engage in, but there is generally a standard script; as well, the difference is much more obvious when body combinations are different.
If OPs gf wanted to see other men to engage in types of sex that is off the table for him, that seems like the same situation to me.
Does it for OP?
That might shed light on where the difference is coming from.
it is rooted in misogyny because you objectify the idea of her with another woman so you don’t see it as cheating, but since she’s bisexual you are competeing with both men and women.
Ask yourself this question honestly, are you okay with her having sex with women because you fantasize about that?
if yes, then you might be sexualizing her potential female partners and you don’t see them as real women but an extension or interchangeable with your girlfriend.
This reminds me a little bit of my relationship. I’m bisexual and my fiancé is straight. I asked him the reason once. He responded that he doesn’t trust men to not hurt me in some way, which I understand. Frankly, I was concerned about the same thing as your girlfriend until I asked.
I’m not sure if this is super relevant to our dynamic, but he’s also okay with me sleeping with another man under the right circumstances. Hypothetically, at least. We haven’t done it yet.
Anyway, could this be what you’re feeling? I think it would explain the sense of dread, at least. I also think it’s fine for you to think that it’s hot for her to sleep with other women, as long as you’re respectful about it and aren’t fetishizing her sexuality.
ETA: I do agree with her that seeing men as competition but not women is rooted in misogyny. It also implies that a woman’s relationship with a man is more valid than a relationship with another woman, which is rooted in homophobia. I understand that’s likely not your intent, but it’s important to unlearn.
It’s the person that matters. Their genitals may very well be an afterthought, or it may not matter at all.
I also don’t think it’s healthy to see anyone as competition. She’s a person, not a prize. And on top of that, if you’re treating her right, then you have nothing to be worried about. In my opinion, there’s nothing to compete for.
Unless she openly said she wanted to fuck her friends and possibly cheat on you, I kinda feel like your girlfriend is in the right here.
You’re fetishizing lesbians so yeah it’s misogynistic and also kind of homophobic like you don’t see two women together as real sex or a real relationship
If she’s bisexual then you definitely have competition
I have had this exact thing said to me before, and to be perfectly honest it pissed me off when it was said to me too. However, I always felt like it was rooted more in underlying/unexamined homophobia/fetishization than misogyny, and I think you have some of that here (ie mentioning that the thought of her with other women turns you on, which feels somewhat fetishistic to me, though I don’t think that’s your intent). When this was said to me, I felt like my sexuality was being fetishized into sort of a performance for his benefit, rather than very real love and sex between two people in the same way it would be with a man.
From your comments, I also think there is an element of territorialism to this, which is honestly very normal to feel toward your partner (there’s a reason most people don’t want their partner sleeping with anyone else!), but I would spend more time examining why it only applies to one gender. You cite distrust in men, which I don’t doubt is an element, but I don’t think it’s the full picture either.