I have always thought of America as a country who’s nationalism and diplomacy comes from protecting democracy and the free world. However I have been seeing a rise in people who think that the US government should stay out of other countries like Ukraine.

29 comments

  1. In the abstract I don’t have a problem with “America First” as a guiding mantra. It’s just that sometimes, putting America first actually does mean you need to lift a finger to help other countries or get involved in things you might not want to be involved in.

  2. I do support America First in some respects. Things like charity for needy foreign children when there are plenty of them here. The feeling about this for me is similar to what they tell you on airplane flights – put YOUR mask on first, THEN put it on your child. Let’s fix what’s wrong locally before we look further away.

  4. As in isolationism? No, the last time we tried that Hitler happened

    As in making sure we have the power to influence the outside world the way we want, through economic, military, and cultural primacy? Yes

  5. You gotta give it to the chicken hawks and warmongers, they’ve co-opted left and right to such an extent that being anti war and funding wars is now “America First Nationalism” LOL

  6. It’s usually of the mindset of let’s take care of ourselves 1st, then help others if we can. Not help others while we sort our shit out, too

  8. Not really. I just wish we would stop being the policemen of the world. I think we could afford a lot more social programs for our own citizens if we stopped acting as the world police.

  9. American interest should come first , but that doesn’t mean we should throw our Ally’s under the bus or worse, be abandoned .Compromises are important and watching out for our friends is in Americas interest.

  11. In a way – but not the way people often use it.

    It’s like my number one responsibility is my house. I wont do something to help someone that significantly harms my family in any way. Like I give to a lot of causes and I know that money could be used for his medical bills and college – but we are comfortable enough that the impact will be minimal. Also — I think living in a neighborhood, city, state, etc that is strong is better for my family.

    Helping other countries means THEY do better and don’t impact us negatively (like when we used to help fight gang violence in other countries so people aren’t desperate and then leave their home and families and need to come here. (I am not anti-immigrant AT ALL but hundreds of thousands of desperate people with PTSD from war torn/crime ridden countries doesn’t help build your country. I’d rather people came because they decided to come to America. Not out of blind desperation killing themselves on the way)

    But I think when every one does better – everyone does better. And I do not like seeing anyone suffer so I feel compelled to help if there is any way to.

    We aren’t “in Ukraine” but we are helping an ally – against someone that IS a foe.

  12. A countries goverment should always be prioritizing its citizenry and its well being over foreign affairs.

  13. To a degree. The US government should prioritize its own citizens cares and concerns before others, that’s what all countries do. Pushing it to isolationism, though, is dumb. The world’s too interconnected now to mind our own business. Protecting US interests *today* means limiting the spread of hostile influence into our own sphere of interest through treaty, trade, and action if necessary. With the rise of China and Russia still actively trying to rob us of our soft power, we can’t afford to just ignore it or we’ll end up hurting ourselves down the line.

    Helping others helps ourselves in the big picture.

  14. Only in the sense that I think we need to focus on internal issues a LOT more than we do, before being the international police force.

  15. I don’t understand how an American would be against Americans resources benefiting Americans first.

  16. Humans are all humans. People don’t deserve more or less because of accident of birth.

    But nations are different, and pragmatics influence what we do. That’s both the practical issue of being not having realistic solutions to poverty, disease, or tyranny worldwide and the political issues of not getting people to support us – both voters in America and allied nations worldwide.

    We can’t protect ourselves if we allow dictatorial imperialism to spread – they’ll just get more resources and have more influence. But neither can we flip a switch or toss some fighter planes into the fray and expect that to solve things.

    In other words, I don’t claim to have a solution or specifics. But blind prioritization to spend money on Americans first doesn’t protect America first.

  17. Honestly, you couldn’t be more wrong. Isolationism is something the US has struggled with for some time. Hence the delay in the US getting involved in WWI and WWII. Back then it was more of, keep our noses out of Europe’s problems.

    If anything that sentiment is less now than then. Most Americans support Ukraine and will continue to do so.

  18. Those who claim the mantle of “America First” often support policies that are short-sighted and are not in our best interests, even if those policies seem like they may be in our best interests in the short term.

    We put America first by engaging in the world. It’s downright silly to think we can turn inward and be isolationist in the year 2023.

  19. > However I have been seeing a rise in people who think that the US government should stay out of other countries like Ukraine.

    From what I’ve seen…the 2 factions that support this are extremists on opposite ends of the spectrum. They’re either pro-Russian fascists/isolationists or think we should liquidate our military so everyone has universal basic income. Neither of these sides are reasonable.

    Nationalism + isolationism, absolutely not. If your idea of “America First” is no foreign aid and not believing in diplomacy, you’re a fool.

  20. I don’t support the ideas that usually come up with this. Which is mostly isolationism. While we should look after ourselves and put ourselves first as far as looking out for our people we should stand with our Allies and be apart of the world. There’s been waves of this since we almost first existed. For example you’ve got the Monroe doctrine to try and keep us out of European affairs which was later added onto with gunboat diplomacy. However it peaked in the 1920s and 30s with the America First movement that wanted to stay out of world affairs and had a decent amount of support. There’s also usually a decent amount of racism with this group too as witnessed both today and with the Chinese exclusion act from the early 1900s.

  21. All nations put their interests first, that’s generally the natural order of things. However, the western liberal order and use of the global commons was built on cooperation, alliances, and partnerships. These tenets are diametrically opposed to what revisionist and revanchist countries like China and Russia stand for. Many who tout “America First” are _completely ignorant_ to that fact and it can generally be translated as, “America First, Fuck Everyone Else.”

  22. I have a problem with your use of the word nationalism, particularly the latter part of the definition of that word:
    > identification with one’s own nation and support for its interests, ***especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.***

    American interest comes first, but we also have the opportunity to be the rising tide that lifts all ships.

    I believe in American Exceptionalism, and in that we can improve other counties’ QOL when they voluntarily adopt our values and beliefs.

  23. Okay, let’s have the dialog.

    “America first!”

    Okay great, What do you want to do first? We’ve got infrastructure that needs repair and upgrade.

    “NO MORE BIG SPENDING PROJECTS!”

    So maybe we should work on healthcare?

    “EXECUTE FAUCI AND REPEAL MEDICARE!”

    There’s a lot that needs to be done to improve our schools.

    “TEAR DOWN PUBLIC SCHOOLS! BAN ALL BOOKS!”

    We could feed and house the homeless, which include an inordinate number of veterans.

    “SOCIALISM!!!!!!!”

    *aaand scene*

    The folks who say “America First” are either paid mouthpieces for the Russian government, or their congregations. “America First” is a slogan that plays well with the fascist right, no matter how much they hate and want to harm America and its people.

  24. “America First” has always been tongue-in-cheek terminology for policies that are anti-immigration at best and violently racist at worst. I will never support any ideology referred to as Nationalism. It is, in my view, the opposite of Patriotism.

    America is made stronger by its diversity of ideas, cultures and international partnerships. Particularly those that share our values: democracy, entrepreneurship, free speech, human rights.

    Supporting Ukraine *is* supporting American interests. They are fighting for our those values we all hold dear. Not supporting them defaults you to a position that allows hostile foreign nations to threaten our security.

  26. That’s a relatively recent thing. Prior to WWII America was primarily concerned with itself and keeping Europe out of the New World.

    It’s only after WWII that we went ‘rah rah – protect democracy’. But even then we do it when it’s in our best interests, just like all the other countries do.

    Edit: I do support our involvement in Ukraine. But make no mistake, we are there because we feel it’s in our interest (or ally’s interest) to oppose Russia taking over.

  27. Not America First but definitely Liberal Democracies First. We should work to insulate our economies from total dependence on authoritarian states. Also, it’s just bad policy to export our pollution to developing states. What is the point of the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act if corporations can just get around it by building dirty factories overseas? Free trade is fantastic, but free trade between states who share commitments in terms of worker protections and environmental protections is even more fantastic. Pricing externalities isn’t done enough by the free market with the rules under which it currently operates. We must tweak the rules using good policy to do that pricing. The result will be a fairer, more productive, more honest society. Stuff that is inexpensive now would be more expensive, but that increased expense would be a reflection of the true costs.

  28. No. We need to govern in a way that prioritizes the health and well-being of people. Our policy should be predicated upon what will best provide a high quality of life for the people within our borders and communities around the world.

    Of course that’s a horribly idealistic philosophy. I understand that in practice certain things must take precedence over others, but I think that far too often the idea of what is “best for the country” has produced horrible and tragic results. Wars for resources, economic growth at all costs, military power above all else. Not to mention that “America First” is exclusionary by nature. Thus it is the first ideology that bigoted and fascist groups use to justify their actions/goals.

    My (Republican) mother once justified her opposition towards welfare (and other social programs) by saying “Why should I have to pay taxes so some woman can buy shoes for kids that aren’t mine?” Now I can understand a mother wanting to provide for her children above all others, but I think that’s just an incredibly flawed outlook. It shouldn’t be “Why should I have to provide for shoes for someone else’s kids?” Instead it should be “No kids should have to go without shoes.”

    We have more food than we could ever eat, more vacant homes than homeless people, more wealth than most the rest of the world combined… and yet we have hungry children, homeless families, and abundant poverty within our own borders. The only people I hear promoting “America First” are the ones that actively want to keep it that way.

    [Said best here.](https://youtu.be/gy19YmQHHJU)

  29. “America First” is a slogan for idiots who can’t wrap their head around the concept of “soft power”.

    The entire reason the US is such an economic juggernaut with incredible influence is our strong relationship with so many other nations. Countries don’t do what you want because you threaten them with the most powerful army. They do what you want because you do stuff for them and they need you to continue doing stuff for them. If the US stops helping countries they’ll find someone else to support them, and we’ll be that much weaker for it.

    Without allies, there wouldn’t be an American superpower. People with a narcissistic worldview don’t understand that, and would burn the nation down over bragging rights.

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