This is for non-work related social interactions.
Edit: to clarify, this is a blue collar environment in a fabrication shop.
I (26F) work in a male dominated industry, with a majority of older men 50+ who are very old fashioned. They expect me to be the “work wife” and tend to everyone else’s social needs.
I am the type of person that gets a little serious at work. I come in to do my job, that’s what I get paid to do. That doesn’t mean I am completely antisocial, there are some people I enjoy talking to about things outside of work. But there are some types of men that seem to get irritated that I don’t give them my attention.
They seem to take it personally when I don’t go out of my way to talk to them, so they have resorted to picking on me to try and get a rise out of me? There’s this one guy that comes in occasionally. He will call out to me “Oh, there’s the chatterbox!” or if I say excuse me to get by him he’s like “Oh my gosh, that’s the most I’ve ever heard you talk!”, I just looked at him and kept walking to my workbench.
A small group of guys had an “intervention” with me because I didn’t go out of my way to say good morning to them.. the next day I said good morning to them and they ignored me (I assume on purpose). I literally do not care or get upset if someone doesn’t say good morning to me, it doesn’t affect me at all.
The guys that have a problem with me are not people I’d like to get along with anyway. One of them I had to report for sexual harassment. Another guy used to be nice to me until another guy he hated got fired. He then started to target me as his next nemesis.
I am also someone who can be content with not saying much. I have a great personal life outside of work, and I can just be in my head and be happy. But I notice a lot of people here cannot be content in their own mind, and constantly have to verbally project to feel satisfied. The harasser one day told me that he doesn’t know what to talk about with me, and I told him that’s okay, because I am fine with not talking (I don’t think he heard me bc he has poor hearing).
What are some lines I could say to the guys that try and pick on me about not talking? I really hate confrontation though, and try not to give it back to them, because they will think I’m down to tango in their games. Thank you.
48 comments
These guys suck. Hosting an intervention for you not saying good morning is ridiculous. Calling you a chatterbox for talking is annoying. The sexual harassment is disgusting.
Honestly, I liked the line you used where you said you were fine with not talking. If you shoot back at them, then you start playing their games, which is what they want.
It sounds like these guys enjoy talking so I’d just let them talk amongst themselves for the most part.
That being said, not taking part in office social culture can mean that you can get less opportunities to grow in that job. I’d focus on strengthening bonds with a few people in the office who can keep an eye out for you and help you grow. However, if the work culture is toxic then it may be better to work somewhere else for the sake of your mental health.
There are really two separate issues going on here. The first is the gender stereotyping and them trying to put you in that role. The second is your tendency to ignore your co-workers, which is an issue that could become problematic for you at future jobs. I think you want to put a stop to the first with the intervention of management, and work on the second one (although not sure if this is the right job to do that due to the first issue.) Ugh. Sorry!
Get another job.
these guys are just harassing you, they are bullies, replying to them would only make it worse believe me, I have been there, the best will be to report them or just find somewhere else to work
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Get the hell outta there. Just by reading the words 26F working on a male dominated industry filled with 50+ year old men that get upset when the woman doesn’t speak to them is huge fucking red flag.
There aren’t going to be stock “lines” you can throw out to remidy this situation. It’s complicated and has some deep roots.
If you want to stay at the company and move up there, it’s going to take a lot of work. If you’re willing to do this, it’s going to be through social engineering. Your best bet in this scenario is to find the biggest instigator of the problems and work on him first. Doing things like asking him to borrow a pen is a good start. You have to do this in a way that isn’t obvious that your picking him specifically. For instance, walk by him with a note pad then stop a few feet after and say “damn” under your breath. Turn around to him and say “(his name), I’m sorry to bug you, but can I borrow a pen for a minute?”
If he let’s you use it. You’ve stroked his ego. He now thinks you trust him some amount, and that’s the crack in his defense you need. He’ll start lightening up on you, because you needing him for something makes him feel good.
From that point, you’re going to need to talk to him. That doesn’t mean you need to let him talk AT you or to you in a disrespectful way. If he’s just talking at you, you can tell him you’ve got a call to make so you’ll have to let him go. Then walk out of the area and play on your phone. If he’s disrespectful, you can give him push back because with his ego chinked, he’s going to be more receptive to it. That doesn’t mean blow up at him, but you can tell him “no thanks, I don’t appreciate that but thanks anyways.”
You’re going to be playing a game because that’s the environment they’ve cultivated. Do this sort of thing on multiple people, especially people in positions of social power – the person everyone likes, the person everyone respects, the person that is the best worker, etc. Do so as needed to spread your popularity across multiple cliques and that gives you protection to behave like yourself.
One of things with how men operate is they’re going to give each other a hard time. Sometimes they’re doing it because they’re a douche bag, but mostly it’s because they enjoy it collectively. For instance, I call my coworkers nerds, which is an obvious joke because I’m clearly a nerd myself and work with them so it’s understood that if I’m being disrespectful I’m doing it to myself too.
As you mentioned, you believe they want you to be their work wife. They already don’t respect you, so if you plan on being there for a long time, you’re going to need to change their perspective on you.
Your other chore is to go out of your way to take on additional tasks that you don’t mind doing, that help the department, which will give you recognition and face time with the people above you. Especially things that will position you for promotions. Even if your coworkers don’t respect you, if you’re doing work and getting recognition and promotions, they can’t take that from you nor will it make sense for them to disrespect your accomplishments, because it will diminish the work they do.
With all that said, there’s a lot you’re going to have to deal with. It sounds like this is a fucking awful place to work, and in reality you should start looking for a job.
Nothing cause you don’t speak to them.
Old men need clear firm directions. You have to let them know you are there to work. Not there to make friends and I don’t say hi in the morning. Don’t over explain anything it will confuse them. If you do leave and end up working with more guys like this make sure you set the standard right away and they know how it is.
As a 30 something in a male dominated workplace, I feel you. I go to work to work, and if conversation happens naturally, then fine, but I’m not there to make friends or socialize. Some of my coworkers are lonely, and like the social interaction at work because that’s where they get it, so I can empathize to a point, but I’m only working there because it’s quiet and I can get my school work done at the same time. I’m not super outgoing to begin with, but if I have nothing to say I stick my nose in my books. I’ve gotten the “are you always this quiet?” And worse yet “oh, time is going so slow. I’m bored..” as though I’m supposed to entertain them. Just keep to yourself and do you. I just keep telling myself I’m not there to amuse them, I get paid same as them, we’re all adults, figure it out. Thankfully socializing isn’t part of my job description.
On the one hand, it is common courtesy to acknowledge your coworkers’ presence when coming into the office, even if you say nothing the rest of the day. A simple, “Hey, good morning” and keep it moving is sufficient.
On the other, it is really weird that they treat you this way regardless of how you interact with them. This sounds like a pretty shitty, unprofessional work environment. If you want to say something, you might ask someone, “Hey, it seems important to you that I x,y,z. Why is that?” That will help you better understand what they are trying to do, which will give you more insight into how to respond.
Personally, I don’t think there’s anything you say to these people directly. I do think you should be documenting every incident, including how you felt as a result, in a work journal (separate from a personal). Advise your manager of this behavior if you feel confident that they have your back and if you want to continue working there. Otherwise, escalate to HR. Especially the intervention. I say this because once management is aware, and if they do nothing, you’ll have documented evidence showing your employer did nothing to give you a reasonably safe and harassment free workplace. If things get worse or you’re forced to quit, you’ll have that as backup – a 26/f makes an incredibly sympathetic plaintiff against a bunch of 50+m.
Good luck.
This has been my (30F) experience exactly since starting work in manufacturing 7 years ago. I’m really sorry you’re going through this. If you can find another job, please do. I usually hit them with sarcasm or ignore them or ask them to clarify their sexist comments for me… unfortunately it doesn’t get better and because people won’t change, you’ll have to amend your expectations which is really hard to deal with.
As a female, I struggle to understand why it falls on women to mitigate this behavior. Men need to do better at calling this garbage out instead of staying silent and maintaining the status quo. As for the sexual harassment, that is really scary. I would be very noisy about that behavior and make sure it’s called out regularly in front of multiple witnesses. Definitely document your responses and the behavior of others. Feel free to DM me.
I work with ppl like this in a male dominated warehouse. It’s the worse, but they all *want* me to care but I just don’t. Had some of them pick on me for my careless appearance and one of them goes “she doesn’t care”. I agree with her and move on. Had another guy get mad at me for wanting to listen to a podcast and we just finished talking for twenty minutes. Like regardless if I have work to do or not I don’t wanna talk all day! It’s pointless. Sooner or later I’ll just play along with the game and “babysit” a conversation, that means not being fully engaged with them and going along with the motions. Maybe they will get the hint.
Feels like harassment to me. I’m like you. I go to work to work. What I read would make me feel like I can’t go to work to work. Those men would have taken my peace. Harassment.
Have you talked to HR about this? This is on the bullying and harassment spectrum.
Um, ignore them/ no need for special comebacks. Just continue on as you always have, and they will eventually get used to you. They’re being childish and non-professional. It sucks.
As most people have already posted reasonable responses, I’ll give a sitcom-type answer: only talk about the most boring hobby you have, something that makes them think that *not* talking to you is *their* idea, a huge Debbie Downer, or an [energy vampire](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szGmZAPsILQ) that makes the wanna get away or fall asleep. They want somebody that will play in their games, so just show you’re playing a totally different game that they absolutely don’t want to engage in. This would mean having to deal with the reputation associated with the affected personality, but my thought is they’re gonna gossip about you regardless, may as well use it to your advantage.
Like most, I wouldn’t conform to their expectations, I’d be stubborn and talk even less to piss them off. However, if you’re choosing to engage in conversation, you do have options.
Weather— I know it seems stupid, but a good “Can you believe how hot it was this morning?!” Is perfect to fulfill these guys expectations. Prompt them— “Do anything fun last weekend?” Or “Got any plans this weekend?” Or “How’s your day been going?” Are all very low effort on your part and will make them feel like they’re having conversation. Tidbits— “Crazy thing happened yesterday— my blender broke while I was trying to make a smoothie!” Anything vaguely interesting that happens to you is conversation fodder; you can lie a little about time here, like say something was this week when it was last month to justify the conversation. Jokes— last resort, tell a two-liner joke (justify if needed with “I saw this on Facebook yesterday”) “What’s the difference between a bicycle and a tricycle? Attire!”
If you’re looking for more of a malicious compliance, you could A: set up a list of random facts that you pull from whenever the need for conversation appears, “Did you know the human circulatory system is more than 60,000 miles long?” Or B: just go nuts with random cryptic nothings, “The moon is calling, will you answer?” “Someone could be living inside your walls and you wouldn’t know.” “Alpacas.” Be as random as you’d like (spout emptiness like a random word generator) or as terrifying or weird as you’d like (convince them you’re a vampire). At least you’re talking.
I’ve been in your shoes both as a woman and in welding/fab. If the shop is worth it to you, just avoid them like you have been. They want to get a rise out of you and you shouldn’t give them the satisfaction.
Plus, you already get along with the right people. Let the dumb asses age out and just keep doing your thing.
It shouldn’t even be your job to deal with this. Explain the situation to your HR, and have them deal with this situation. They’ll send an email, maybe mention something at a meeting, it’s their job to make sure that work place is about work. And the last thing they’d want is for you to sue the company for improper/hostile workplace environment. This is not 1950’s.
Go to HR. keep filing complaints until they do something.
Stare at them and say nothing. Make them more uneasy than they make you. They are not your friends.
This article on how to deal with this is from the incomparable blogger Captain Awkward.
https://captainawkward.com/2011/04/02/reader-question-32-saying-no-at-work-to-the-parade-of-guys-who-stop-by-my-desk-all-day/
I stickied it to my phone when I had a receptionist job and creepy mailmen called me pet names.
I got in trouble when I worked at the hospital for “alienating” myself to my coworkers. I have severe anxiety and I finally told them after getting scolded more. My boss said “Oh! We all thought you were a bish.” And laughed. They forced me to make friends. All I wanted to do was clock in, work and clock out but that wasn’t a thing.
Omg I’m 26F had the same issue. It was one guy who actually I liked initially when we met. He then began to touch me inappropriately at work but told me he liked me and he’s interested etc and wants to date. He continued to do that but ghosted me. Anyways he yelled at me a few times and is constantly on my back for not saying hello / saying why do I look upset or mad when in reality I just don’t want to get close with him. Last time he told me why am I sulking and I ignored him . He ended up scolding me for a tiny mistake . Something I forgot to do.makes rude remarks consistently..
Idk it’s weird I’m a serious person too and I can have and socialise but I can be quite 2 nothing serious. Maybe leaving for somewhere else is ur best bet or honestly just doing ur best to not give it attention. I can’t help much since in the same boat
I would be like “I came here to work, not shoot the shit”
“Are you always this quiet?”
“No, I’m actually fairly talkative when I have good company.”
“Oh so I’m not considered good company?”
“Interesting take. Perhaps you should take some time to reflect upon that.”
<says anything else>
“Noted.”
I’m an introvert and listen more than I speak. I would tell them that. You don’t need to tell them anymore than that.
You should ignore the guys around there unless you actually interact with them to complete another job. I’ve noticed that older guys just enjoy ribbing, either each other or themselves. They just have this type of culture. And if what you’re saying is that they will age out , then the problem.solves itself. Most of the old guys dont have filters. The fact that they aren’t bothering you about your work and only your attitude or lack of interaction with them should speak volumes. If they didn’t respect that, they would be bringing it up all the time. I work in the manufacturing sector as well (female too). I just learn that my “I’m at work dont talk to me” face works wonders on the older peeps if they want to come up to me while doing something.
Men want to be seen talking to you because it increases their social status.
Read that again.
Nothing
Next question
Nothing at all, make them fume MORE lol
“I prefer listening over talking”
“I guess I had a good reason not to talk to you.”
You don’t have to give attention to anyone. Its not part of your job nor should anyone expect it. Its even stupid of them to have that kind of mindset. People get paid to work not socialize. Yes some can be super friendly but that’s up to them as a person . you don’t owe them a thing. Just go on with your job if ur just happy doing that. Just ignore them
Be polite in the work place. Just polite. Good morning, good bye, see you later, have a good evening. Just basic courtesy. If someone says one of them to you, you respond. If you’re not doing that, then I would be a little put off, too.
Reading your post, there is a lot of “I” statements in there. A lot. You’re in a group in a basic way. Just be courteous.
As for the nemesis? Tell him to back off if he is abrasive. Saying one of those courteous statements to you isn’t the same as being abrasive.
>>…take care of their social needs.
I’m not sure what you specifically mean by this. If you are the only one told to make coffee in the break room, then, “I’m nobody’s wife here,” is an Ok response. If you are the only one they want to order and stop to pick up the birthday cake then, “It’s Steve’s turn” or “I did it last time, now it’s someone else’s job,” is an OK response. If they say you should be the one doing all of the dishes in the break room sink then, “Oh hell no,” is an OK response.
Just be courteous.
The mental and emotional cost of being “the only” at a workplace is so annoying.
Unfortunately have experience with this too. Continue doing your work, save money & look into what’s next as far as work. Also unfortunately, I experienced when it’s that bad, that the “top” looks a lot like the rest. Even consider a job that at least pays the same elsewhere if the next step is farther from reach rn. Find your peace & hold on tight. Nothing wrong with you, but I’m sure they’d love for you to bend into thinking it is. You owe them nothing girlie.
“I’m just here to work.” – End of conversation.
“get out of your way to say good morning to them”
Seams very antisocial to me
Just say hello and be polite to your colleges
Yea I’m the type of person that would be sarcastic back in a rude way but like you said if you engage it just might make it worse. The “intervention” thing is fucking dumb and bs, I would have straight up said I’m here to do a job not to make friends and act like some fucking walmart greeter.
I’ve worked in these environments before and even as a guy who’s just trying to keep to myself and get work done it can be annoying dealing with these type of old curmudgeons who still act like they’re in high school, but that’s how these environments tend to be.
I would still keep to yourself and go to hr if they keep making you uncomfortable, otherwise maybe look for another job with a more professional environment.
Haha holy shit I almost asked this question last week. I definitely relate. Luckily my coworkers are super nice. I can tell they want me to talk to them more but their signals are much more polite than what you seem to be experiencing.
If I were you I would find a new job. Having coworkers that you actually enjoy being with really makes a difference. But if you can’t leave for whatever reason, then I would say to just be honest. If one of them is being annoying and picking on you antagonizing you, I’d say “why would I want to talk to someone who bullies me for not talking?” Something along those lines. Try and make them feel what you are feeling. Or next best thing would be to just ignore them and eventually they will probably leave you alone.
Tell them you’re there to WORK, as a paid employee; not coddle their social insecurities. Essentially tell them to grow up and fuck off if they can’t handle someone wanting to do their work and be left the fuck alone.
OP this isn’t a social skill issue. This is what’s called a “hostile work environment”. You’re being harassed, and also sexually harassed. This legally meets the definition for those things.
If things get to a point where you have to file a complaint for harassment or sexual harassment, you file that complaint with *your lawyer*. H.R. is not there to help *you*, H.R. is there help the company. H.R.’s job is protect the company from *you*, not the other way around.
So you should talk to a lawyer about this, and as part of that conversation they will tell you to go through H.R. and proper channels, and you should. The reason for this is documentation. You need to show that you notified them of the problem, they had an opportunity to fix it, but didn’t.
So here’s a few salient points:
* This situation is not your fault, it’s not your responsibility to solve it. You’re there to do your job, not cater to the whims of guys who don’t understand boundaries. Things like sexual harassment, “interventions” by groups of guys, being targeted, are over the line. And illegal.
* You need to document everything from now on. Every time something happens you need to write it down or record it. ALL communications about these issues, you reporting it, everything needs to be EMAIL ONLY. If someone, any form of management or supervisor tries to discuss this in person, gently but firmly insist that you can only discuss it through emails. Be polite, but firm.
* You should not have to leave the job site or get a different job due to this. You are not doing anything wrong, it is not your fault. If the company tries to move *you* to another job or another location, be aware that that is an attempt to punish you for the harassment other people are doing. Don’t accept it.
Sorry you’re going through this, it sucks, but do not blame yourself. Hold your head up, talk to a lawyer, and stand up for your rights. I understand times are tough, people have different situations economically and otherwise. If you can, try to stand up for your rights not just for yourself, but for other women in your company, and ones who might work there after you.
How about nothing?
Honestly, it just sucks no matter what you say. I don’t have to deal with as much of it these days, but it still happens on occasion. (I’m more on the engineering side of things now.)
I think others have already given good advice on the sexual harassment part, but I might be able to offer help for the other stuff.
Just keep things short and matter-of-fact without technically being rude. My personal favorite is responding with vague one-word answers delivered in monotone while continuing whatever I was previously doing without looking up at the person. If really pushed for more of a response, I try to keep it polite but firm.
In general, with work situations, the goal is to waste as little time as possible getting out of the situation without escalating the issue. I don’t even bother trying to deescalate with these kinds of people. There’s really no winning, and the best reaction is no reaction unless it’s to the level where HR needs to get involved.
Edit to add: I’m 33 btw, and while aging didn’t improve anything, getting promoted did.
i would play dumb at their comments & ask what they mean.
‘there’s the chatterbox!’
‘i’m sorry, i don’t understand what you mean. can you explain?’
9/10 the explanation exposes the malice/actual meaning behind the comment aka, how fucking out of pocket it is.
You create a slack bot to chat with them daily.