Throw away for obvious reasons but I am at a loss for what to do.
Some background: my wife has a turbulent history with her mother and older sister. Until my wife moved out their interactions were boiling down to a ton of emotional abuse, gas lighting, and heavy favoritism for her older sister. In fact, even in interactions with my wife’s mother the amount of favoritism disturbed me as a neutral observer. For example, we were going to visit her grandmother and we had brought a bunch of souvenirs (boutique foods) that we knew her grandmother liked. However, covid measures at the time ended up preventing us from bringing any food into their nursing home. Without even giving us the option of bringing it home, her mother immediately re-gifted it to her sister because “she might like it”. The favoritism has been so stark that it’s led to an almost ptsd response from my wife whenever something she owns ends up benefitting her sister. Her sister also never hesitates to rub all of the things she’s gotten this way in our noses.
My parents both 60ish are visiting this week from abroad, and I warned them well in advance that this is a red line and they must not bring anything for her older sister or her kid because the reaction will be visceral and terrible. Mind you my parents have never met her sister our her kids because she snubbed our wedding. My dad understood and promised me that the several children’s books they had prepared would stay at home and they would not bring them. My wife has also been doing her best to take my parents all over the country to show them places they have never been to before.
Lo and behold on the day my wife’s parents were scheduled to meet my parents, my mom shows up with the stack of books that she had packed behind my father’s back and proceeded to gift them to my wife’s parents to give to her sister. My mom insists this is because they’re family and she hasn’t done anything wrong. Predictably, the reaction has been utter pandemonium and I am left picking up the pieces.
Wife wants no contact with my parents and my mom insists she did nothing wrong and my wife is over reacting over a stack of children’s books. I am firmly on my wife’s side on this as I had spent almost three weeks walking my parents through each incident to explain how this red line came to be. Dad cannot believe my mom would do such a thing behind his back and already apologized to my wife several times even though he had no part in what happened.
Now the question is where do I go from here? Do I try and make my mother understand? I think the relationship is toast. Or how do I make my wife feel better because she feels so incredibly betrayed by my parents. For now, I think I need to get the books back before they get transferred to her sister…
EDIT: there have been a number of people asking me why my wife’s family are still in the picture despite being toxic. The answer is that it’s my fault. Her mother will push her way into our business and I have been hesitating to enforce proper boundaries for fear of rocking the boat. I’ve just learned that this behavior is called boat steadying, and I need to stop doing this. My wife does not keep in touch with her family willingly. She has said more than once that she would be happier if she never saw them again.
35 comments
A lot to unpack here.
First, your mom was in the wrong and owes your wife an apology. Even if she didn’t totally understand why this was a sore spot (and yes, even if you explain people sometimes have a hard time internalizing dynamics they’ve never experienced), you made it clear this was an absolute no-no and she did it anyway. That’s disrespectful.
Secondarily: Is your wife in any sort of treatment for her trauma? It seems like a very painful way to live that she can’t see your parents bring books for a child without scorching the earth. While I do understand and empathize with her pain, she can’t use it as a justification to control other people’s actions that really have nothing to do with her. Your mom is not her mom.
Do you have any inkling that your mom would have done this on purpose to upset your wife or was it an honest miscalculation of how serious the issue was? That will influence how you should handle things moving forward.
Hey OP while your wife obviously needs some professional help to sort out her feelings and move forward, your mother also needs to see the consequences of her actions. Go no contact for a set period of time even if she apologises. She has no right to dictate how your wife should react and needs to be shown that the hard way by removing her choice to continue your relationship with her.
So I see this as your mom gave your and your family’s childhood books to her sister. They did not save those books for your future children. You made it clear that the relationship is bad, and no gifts to her sister’s kids will ever make their way back to your family. These are not random meaningless books. I think people are missing the point. Or like, don’t love reading to their kids to not see the nostalgia and connection there. Or were these random books your mom picked up on sale?
I agree with the comments about professional advice and treatment.
Can you negotiate NC with your mom but retain contact with your father? Do you think that you could get that concession? Maybe not right now while she’s incandescent but maybe later? Your father seems to understand and maybe you could advocate that it wasn’t his doing and that he’s on her side?
He (and your unthinking mother) would have to agree that she’d be nowhere near the telephone during calls. She sounds like you could spend three days priming her to be silent and she’d still be “but all I want to say is…”
Do you have any siblings that you’d be able to pass information through as an alternative route?
OP’s Mom was selfish and boundary-stomping. OP’s wife needs help but this boundary was explained in great detail to OP’s Mom and Mom didn’t care. Go NC until Mom apologizes. Whether the wife is helped in therapy or not, OP’s Mom was WRONG and must apologize before going forward. NC.
I think you need to support your wife here. Her reaction is extreme and she does need therapy, but I understand her.
I personally believe ignoring boundaries that you’ve been made aware of in advance *can only be* malicious invalidation. Your mother made a conscious decision to invalidate your wife’s experiences here.
If your coworker tells you they are not okay with casual touching and you go and give them a big hug anyway because “it’s just a hug and it’ll make you feel better!”, you’ll likely be seeing HR.
Your mother is actively invalidating your wife’s experiences; her believing “family above all” is good – *for her* – but she doesn’t get to push that narrative on someone who’s experience is wholly different.
I don’t think NC is the answer here, but I do not fault your wife for feeling betrayed by your mother and I think the relationship is toast unless your mother shows actual remorse for her actions.
Info: why is it OK for your wife to maintain contact with her mom, the person who contributes to her trauma, but expects you to cut contact with yours?
Your mom has made an insensitive misstep by gifting books but is it a cultural norm to bring family gifts? (I only ask because in my culture visitors often bring multiple gifts for extended/in-law family, even those they have never met.)
I didnt get one thing, why does you wife maintain contact with her parents if she is that terrible?
I have a similar issue to your wife.
Your mom needs to apologize sincerely and I would make it a point to adhere to the NC until she does.
Your wife though needs to realize and remember that your dad is a separate person. He can still have the relationship with you and leave your mom out of it entirely. Set up some boundaries like he can’t pass messages and the like and do that.
If your wife refuses to compromise on that part of the NC wish you have a bigger problem.
She definitely needs some counseling, however you can get it.
Wait, your wife has these issues and still spends time with her family?
Start there man, definitely start there.
There’s no world where your wife ever gets better with them around. Therapy and going NC with her parents and sister.
Seems really obvious.
Why take the steps to go no contact over what her mother in law did, but continue to allow her own mother and sister to run amuck. Does this reaction match the situation? Your example of favoritism is pretty weak in my opinion so I’m trusting there is a lifetime of pain and frustrations causing such a large over reaction.
What will your wife be like when you have children (siblings) of your own? How will she manage her triggers and offenses? There will be all sorts of reasons to get upset and she’s going to need to learn to not project her experiences and emotions onto her kids.
Your mom way over stepped. She’s asserting dominance and purposely stepped on toes for who knows why- either to teach your wife that she won’t be controlled, or she cares a whole lot more about cultural Norms than she does for her relationship with her daughter in law and you. Maybe both. This is typical Mother in Law crap unfortunately. That doesn’t make it right. Consequences and clear personal boundaries will be necessary moving forward. I just do not agree that cutting off your mom, while her mom gets to continue on is normal or matches the situation. It’s like she’s taking all of her rage and pain of what her own mother has done to her onto the easier subject to cut off (your mother) vs learning good boundaries and communication.
Honestly everyone sucks here except your dad, but I bet your dad has always been a passive observer with a wife like that. Do not become a passive observer. Communication skills, emotional intelligence, boundaries, compassion, humility, strong back/soft heart…. So much growth is needed here for everyone.
Here’s the real question, why hasn’t her mother and sister been on the no contact list for quite some time already? Yeah what your mom did was shitty and brainless, but she never should have been able to create this situation in the first place because your wife’s family have no place in your lives.
Your borderline abusive with this steadying the boat shit. Your wife has the right to live her life without contact with her abusers and you are introducing families.
Don’t trying to get those books back. That’s just more contact. That ship has sailed.
Your mom gets a long time out.
And you don’t foster any contact between your wife and anyone who abused her or triggers her abuse trauma.
Also don’t force therapy, it’s often triggering, unless you can find a really good trauma informed therapist.
I think your wife could benefit from cutting her own family off if their presence brings her so much grief. I also think she needs to work through her emotions because at the end of the day, the books were for the children. Not her sister.
Your mom should still apologize because she was warned that this was a sore spot for your wife. I really think that your mother should worry more about mending the relationship with your wife instead of worrying who is technically right.
Give your wife a big hug and talk to her to see if you can cut off her family. Then talk to her about therapy. This seems to deeply hurt her. Maybe talking to someone about it would benefit her.
It doesn’t make sense to keep her toxic family around but go no contact with yours when your mom’s mistake was pretty minor.
wait wait wait…
you are the reason her toxic parents have the opportunity to treat her like this?
she isn’t in contact with them?
and you are surprised that your mother is exactly like you?
So according to your edit you’re also part of the problem. No one takes your wife seriously not even you. I feel so sorry for this woman and feel terrified what will happen to her mental health by being surrounded by enablers and abusers.
Buddy… if your wife has said she’d be happy never seeing them… all you had to do was not invite them to meet your family. Then none of this would happen. Listen to your wife. Get her help. Cut them off.
OP, what are you doing to your wife? You insist she interact with her POS mother and sister, which is horrible. Now you let your mother show up and pull this nonsense. All done by a man that’s going to be single soon. If i was a therapist, I’d recommend getting the heck away from you for starters. You dont have your wife’s best interests remotely at heart.
Your rose-colored glasses are skewing your perception. Your wife’s mother is a total AH out in the open, and your own mother is a sly AH masked with an, “I just want everyone to be happy” sweet persona. Mothers and MILs get REALLY weird about this kind of stuff. Your mom made a power move. It was at the detriment to your wife, and your mom KNEW it, and did it anyway. Both older women in your life suck, and you need to SEE IT and start really protecting your wife.
Go completely NC with wife’s parents – she isn’t lying when she says she doesn’t want to see them again. Let her reach out to them if she wants, but YOU stop talking to them altogether. Also go NC with your mom for a while to teach her that her behavior is completely unacceptable, and she will only get no contact from you if she acts like that again.
Your own wife doesn’t want anything to do with her family and yet you keep enabling it. Grow a pair, be a man and CUT THEM OFF. Stand by your woman.
The bit I don’t get is that she wants no contact with your family, the nice ones, and continued contact with her family, the mean ones? Won’t the better thing be to go no contact with her family?
Omg. Keep your wife’s family away and get her into counseling. Stop acting dumb about your part in this. You have the audacity to act shocked about your mom when you have been doing WORSE!
Boat steadying? DISRESPECT OF BOUNDARIES!! Let your wife heal for heaven’s sake.
Qu; why if your wife is virtually no contact with her family did you organise for your parents to meet hers? Why would your wife be okay with that? They live in different countries and you’ve told them your wife doesn’t get on with her family. No way could your parents have arranged this meeting, it must have been you and your wife. A very strange thing to do in the circumstances, given you’ve spent weeks telling your parents what a bad mother your mil was yo your wife?
You could easily have dodged any meeting by say they had moved states, gone on holiday.
What were your parents supposed to do at this meet up,?
Basically no matter what stories you told your parents why would they believe it’s that bad a situation if you go and arrange a family gathering?. Sorry your actions beggar belief. You’ve literally told them one thing then done something completely att odds with what you’ve been saying. Literally, you and your wife caused that drama.
Sure your mum should have aired on the side of caution and not given any gifts, but on the flip side that’s what you do when you meet the in laws. Your behaviour was utterly confusing.
This boat steadying rubbish, what the hell you encouraging contact with people who your wife hates and bitterly resents? How come your wife doesn’t just tell you no, and to leave it?.
Very strange behaviours indeed.
The whole situation is bizarre, and the meeting never needed to happen. Whomever organised this meeting is at fault, and so is your wife for agreeing to it. So is your mother for assuming it couldn’t be as bad as you were telling her because you arranged a Flippin get together.
Why couldn’t you just let your wife have a nice time with your parents so at least she’d have in laws she could play family with?
It’s no wonder something like this ended up happening.
You and your wife need to have a conversation about why you felt the need to arrange this get together. You two need to agree to keep tf away from your wife’s family, she doesn’t like them. They upset her.
It’s like the food for your wife’s grandmother. Why did you give it to your wife’s mother? You didn’t need your mil consent to go see your wife’s gran,. The food never needed to leave your house unless you two were going to yhe home.
Just sounds bizarre. All of it sounds as if you enjoy causing crap.
Just unbelievably stupid carry on, that never needed to happen.
You do realize you are aiding in your wife’s abuse right? You are enabling her parents and sister and so is your mom. Stop forcing her to have a relationship with her abusers. Your wife deserves better and you all s u c k.
First your in-laws get cut off. Then you tell your mom that she is cut off until she pulls her head out of her ass and apologizes. I hope your wife will not cut your dad off as he didn’t do anything wrong. If your wife isn’t already seeing a therapist, she should look into it.
Why in the world do you think it’s acceptable to force your wife to stay in contact with her abusers? Because you lack a spine, and you would rather please people at your wife’s expense, *you* have become her current abuser. Therapy won’t help if she’s married to someone who does *not* have her best interests at heart. OP, it is YOU that needs therapy.
Your wife needs to see a therapist
I think that the person OPs wife wants to go NC with is her mother, not OPs mother. Obviously OPs mom needs to learn her lesson so maybe tell her that for the Spring/Summer she needs to keep her distance and hopefully before the holidays in the Fall she can have time to appreciate that she acted willfully bad and selfishly, (she wanted to appear magnanimous), and she needs to think very very carefully about apologizing and promising to never cross that one simple boundary ever again. Meanwhile, yes the wife should get therapy (EMDR) to try to relieve some of her pain.
You are handling this poorly-every decision you make is actively hurting your wife.
I know you said therapy isn’t really a “thing” where you are, but you need some kind of help or guidance here. For one thing, stop being the reason these abusive people can contact your wife.
Your mother did this deliberately because she was told not to.
There is a lot of sensitivity and pettiness all around. The bottom line is that you are responsible for the well-being of your wife and nobody else except your children. You should prioritize her well-being over anything else that might bring down her well-being no matter who it is.
Why are you forcing your wife to keep contact with her toxic family?
Just because yours sound “healthier” doesn’t mean everyone has to follow…
Please, go NC with your wife’s family and maybe LC with your mother for her lack of respect to your wife
You do realize that you keeping in contact with your wifes family is, in your wifes eyes, showing your favoritism to them right?
This poor woman has had it hammered in her head that nobody cares about her and that her sister deserves all the love and attention instead. She has NEVER been treated as a main priority.
So now imagine how it must feel for her to have HER OWN HUSBAND still maintain a relationship with her family instead of cutting them off for her wellbeing. You are just another person in her life who pushes her aside and makes her feel uncared for.
Your wife needs therapy YESTERDAY. You probably need therapy too, or at least couples counseling so you can finally understand that your wife NEEDS to be your top priority over her wretched family.
Just to chime in and say your wife doesn’t have an “almost ptsd response” it likely IS ptsd.