Question for native Americans.
Hey so I’m from Australia so I know next to nothing about your culture or history, however I have heard that it’s rather a big no no in the states for a place like a bar to have a statue of a man wearing all the gear such as the head pice with the feathers and Tomahawk ect ect, once again I’m sorry I have no idea what the head pice is called, now my boss has one in the bar I work at wearing…sunglasses? So my question is how would you feel if you saw that?
19 comments
A Native American statue?
You’re probably thinking of a [Cigar Store Indian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigar_store_Indian). It can be seen as offensive or insensitive, but you definitely still see them. It’s not like blackface where the offense is so severe and universal that you’ll almost certainly be confronted if you were to attempt it, but it may be seen as a faux pas to have one.
Also the headpiece you’re referring to is likely a [war bonnet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_bonnet)
I believe you are referring to Cigar Store Indians. People within the Native American community find them offensive for 1) promoting a commercial purpose for a ceremonial product (tobacco) and 2) perpetuating the Native American Stereotype.
I’m Native American and I personally would not be offended. I don’t really get offended by most things though. That being said, I would completely understand if someone else was and would fully support them.
I wouldn’t think twice about it if I was to see one state side. The only way that I can imagine an issue arising would be if the statute/carving was painted with red skin or was depicted as engaging in some sort of negative stereotype associated with Native Americans. The sunglasses might be kind of goofy or childish but it’s not offensive.
You see things like that from time to time in Europe. Most time time an American is like “uhhhh, okay. Weird.” It’s both anachronistic and out of context, with a mild veneer of offensive-but-not-worth-fussing-over on top. It’s more incongruous than offensive. Although at the same time, I would expect Australians (and Brits) to be at least a little less naive about it than non-Anglophone Continentals.
You see this with other ‘American’ symbols, and it throws one for a loop. The first time I saw a rebel flag in Europe was outside the entrance to a bar attached to a gas station just off the highway in the middle of Slovenia. I must have jumped two feet in the air when I saw it. “What the fuck kind of neo-Nazi shithole am I about to walk into!?”
It was just a normal Euro-style gas station bar on the inside. I eventually put the dots together and realized they saw it as a cool-looking piece of Americana. Like Elvis, or an Indian brave, or a cowboy, or a ’57 Cadillac, or a Harley, or Southwestern desert mesa scenery with a saguro cactus in the foreground, or whatever else. They all just kind of conflate it all together.
Imagine what a German would think were they to go to an Oktoberfest somewhere in Ohio. A German would think that it looked like the actual Oktoberfest was eaten by Cthulhu, partially digested for several centuries, and then farted back out for lunch. That’s the sensation I get when I see that kind of shit so far away from home. Incongruous, fucked up ‘pastiche’ that signifies ‘Americana’ to the Continental gaze but that makes an actual American go “the fuck’s this shit, man?”
Its not universally viewed as offensive like blackface. But is viewed as appropriation when used for marketing in many cases.
I’m Indigenous American and you still see those statues around here, known as Cigar Store Indians from time to time. My parents did a road trip tour of the Western states and found one somewhere (Tombstone maybe?) and Dad had his picture taken by it as a joke for the rest of the family. I don’t find them offensive, but I find them extremely silly.
It would be like you visiting here and seeing a random statue of Crocodile Dundee being used as an example of all Australians. You might not offended, but you might think it silly and stereotypical.
It would be best to ask those tribes whose cultural traditions include War Bonnets. They were not meant to be simply head wear or worn casually by anyone like a hat, but symbols of authority and achievement, as in not everyone had the right to wear one. It is akin to someone wearing combat medals they have not earned. Their views on it are valid and should be respected.
And some of the authentic ones are made of Eagle Feathers which only natives are allowed to own.
I’m Eastern Cherokee and my tribe did not wear them If you were to put up a statue of a ‘traditional’ Cherokee few people would recognize it because it wouldn’t fit the stereotype of what an ‘Indian’ is supposed to look like.
I can’t speak for enrolled Natives, as my grandmother is Mestee (Like Canadian Métis), but from my experience, it is generally considered offensive to have stereotypical caricatures of an ethnic group normalised
The use of Native American imagery and symbols by non-indigenous people can be a controversial issue among Americans. There is no clear consensus on where to draw the line between cultural appreciation, cultural appropriation, and blatant racism.
That being said most Americans would probably be ok with a statue of a Native American provided it’s respectful. If you put sunglasses on him or try to use him to sell something than you might be pushing it.
FWIW, those things aren’t exactly everywhere. I might see one once a year? They’re sort of fading into history.
Kawliga is a great song though
It’s offensive as it’s making a cute caricature of a people who were systemically round up, moved to infertile grounds, so they succumbed to starvation and disease, dramatically reducing their population tens of millions in the 1600s to under 250,000 people in the early 1900s.
The native population here, numbering now in the 2-5 million, are often still on the same reservations, and the reservations, generally speaking, have low human development indexes.
Generally, caricatures are meant to be humorous depictions of people. Genocide, not a funny topic typically.
So while you can see how this is really offensive, in practice I would say it’s mildly so as usually the person who owns it is far separated from any actual acts which cause native populations past or previous harm, and do not wish to cause harm to those populations.
You should read up on the controversy surrounding sports teams and Native American imagery and names.
Yes, it is offensive to the indigenous people of America.
ITT: “It’s offensive to Native American people”
Also ITT: “I’m Native American and I don’t find them offensive”
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As a kid I always thought they were so cool and wanted one. I still kinda want one today. I’d lo6ke to build a gameroom and just have one in the corner. Often you can find them for sale on ebay.
In addition to “cigar store indians” which you do occasionally still see, a lot of bars (as well as other locations) still display other things like paintings, busts, head pieces, and so on. In some ways it’s part of the general wallpaper for places that were first created during a certain period. A lot of native and quasi-native imagery just hanging around.
I have heard mixed feelings from native people about how offensive this phenomenon is (aside from when the “art” or decor is clearly abusive or bigoted.) The response from Southern_Blue is a good example (“silly and stereotypical.”)
Many people in the US are much less attuned to racism toward native populations than they are with, say, black populations so it feels to some people like a grayer area to have all this stuff around.