Let me clarify, I’m an international student from France and I struggle with making deep connections. I value honesty and directness (not rudeness, simple honesty and keeping things real) and it seems here people just avoid conflict at all times… is it me or is it an American thing??
I can spend an entire day with someone and never really understand how they feel/what they feel in the moment.
I live in NY, I don’t know if that changes things…

31 comments
  1. This is actually super interesting to me given that you’re in New York. By American standards, they’re notorious for being very emotionally direct, to the point of being off putting to people not used to it.

    For what it’s worth, it goes both ways in my personal experience. I lived with a French international student for a semester when I was in college, and to be honest I had a really hard time getting a read on her. I just chalked it up to cultural differences creating minor confusion.

  2. I wouldn’t say it’s conflict avoidance so much as we are just generally unbothered by small interpersonal shit. We are about as far from a monoculture as it gets so if we went around confronting everyone who did something we didn’t personally like we’d never stop arguing. If you step on my shoes I’ll tell you to fuck off and forty seconds later it never happened. Even if I’m still annoyed about it, gotta keep it moving.

    Also for as much as we have a reputation for being open and friendly and polite, it is largely surface level. We’re much more cordial than we are honest. We’ll sit and talk to strangers in a pub for hours, but in general are not prone to having serious, honest discussions with people who are not in our innermost circle.

  3. Wait, by “spending an entire day with someone”, are you talking about a date/romance type of thing?

    If so, this isn’t really a question for “why are Americans…”

  4. Taking time not to hurt others feelings is a pretty good idea. More people are careless about feelings than to careful.

  5. Do you live upstate or in NYC?

    People in NYC are absolutely notorious for being over sharers.

    People upstate are more reserved, in either instance I do think we would want to avoid offending someone from another country.

  6. The fact that you’re in NY absolutely effects this. New Yorkers are rightfully stereotyped as being slow to warm up to people, doubly so if you’re in NYC.

    Rule of thumb: the warmer the climate, the more social the people.

  7. No, it just takes more effort to offend then I’m typically willing to put into a interaction. Live and let live

  8. I’m not afraid of hurting other people’s feelings. I’m just not interested in hurting other people’s feelings.

  9. usually there’s a level of tact and caution that we have for acquaintances and new friends that gets chipped away as people become closer. could it be that you just haven’t made very deep relationships yet? (not a bad thing – it takes time)

  10. I’m not afraid of hurting other people’s feelings if it’s merited.

    It’s rarely merited, nor is it often my responsibility. And being direct to the point of being rude is not only insensitive, it has zero chance of accomplishing the behavior you think would be beneficial.

    Make no mistake, if someone opens up and is rude, I’ll tear them apart. And I won’t feel one moment of regret. Like with the OP, I suspect I would have several direct conversations.

    But if a friend needs advice, I will put myself in their shoes. Empathize with them. And gently give information.

  11. We value empathy and kindness over being right and knocking others down a peg.
    We don’t really build connections over criticizing each other. We build the connections first then roast each other.

    Likewise, I’ve had conversations or spent time with French, Dutch, etc people and was similarly thrown off as you are. Mainly because I felt like they came off as tone deaf and awkward because they made judgemental statements which I thought were weird to make to someone from another country you barely know.

    Different cultures and different social norms.

  12. I’m not afraid of hurting people’s feelings, I’m just not interested in doing so unless it’s necessary. You can be direct without being hurtful.

  13. I’ve come across this with a friend of mine who is from Kuwait.

    I’ve said some honest things, but I start with the flowery, un-offensive language before I address the direct response and he’s literally told me to stop using the flowery in-offensive language.

    Americans, in general, are more easily offended and prefer a ‘softened blow’ with their language.

    Example: the British say ‘died’, no other euphemism; Americans also say that word, but
    ‘passed away’ or some variations are more common in language. This example is a good example of the way Americans can be offended or made uncomfortable by certain words or subjects, so different or more flowery language is used.

    You have to keep in mind that a large part of the Puritan culture that came to this country still shows up in spots, on one end. On the other end, one could also argue that a cultural shift in the last 50-100 years could also play a factor in people being more concerned about other’s feelings.

    I say this as an American, an English minor, and as someone who isn’t easily offended but have been surrounded by a bunch who have.

  14. Im from the south, where in some ways, it is far more important to be polite than in the north. I became close with a Parisian over many years. And I think I know what you are talking about. I find it most noticeable in creative communities. The French seem to go out of their way to describe one anothers creative endeavors as … just “ok” – as if it would kill them to accidentally look too eager. Then you have Americans who seem to want to die if literally Anyone says Anything critical about their work.

    I am considered exceedingly blunt by the standards of the people around me, but even I am sometimes shocked by how conceited and downright rude my French friend can be. But also, at other times, how genuinely warm and thoughtful.

    We are just different, with different histories, that is all it comes down to.

  15. I too think it’s interesting that you describe this in NYC. People from the northeast are known for being blunt by our standards.

    In the south or Midwest, you have to read minds or microexpressions to know the extent of what someone is feeling at any given time. I was raised in that environment.

    I don’t convey everything I’m feeling all the time, especially around new people. The reasons for this are many. First, I want to build rapport, and we do that by being friendly. Putting in the effort to accept the other person. I also value being polite to maintain face in this environment. Being snotty or negatively critical shows others that I have poor impulse control, and can’t express what I think or feel in a more constructive or positive way for the benefit of others. That I value my own experience more than theirs, to their expense. This is generally not looked upon kindly.

    If others don’t display the same kind of “kindness,” the protocol dictates that I continue to try and be kind to them, because “bless their heart,” their impulsive, selfish self can’t do any better, so I have to try and fill the gap. Usually I just gradually fade away from these people.

    There is a line though. If it goes past a certain point, I don’t feel the obligation to them anymore to control my impulses, because they won’t do the same. At that point, I am likely to tell them briefly and cuttingly exactly what I think of them, and I’ll probably not talk to them anymore willingly. If they apologize, it can come back from that point. But lasting damage is probably done.

  16. It’s more most of us just don’t care. There’s really no point in going around being confrontational all the time. Too much stress, we already have stress so why add some interpersonal bullshit that in the end doesn’t really matter? Also some of us are very honest we just tend to be more straightforward with people we know as opposed to random acquaintances, strangers, or casual friends. You’re also from France most Americans probably feel they need to present the best side of themselves to avoid the stereotypes we get labeled with often. Also most of us were raised if you don’t have anything good to say you shouldn’t say anything at all.

  17. i just cant be fucked to do damage control when i be too honest about a subject and it comes off the wrong way/im too blunt about it.

    it is generally just a net positive to be cautious about what you say unless you personally know the person.

  18. If you see that in NY good luck anywhere else in the country. NY has some of the most honest and direct people I have ever had to deal with in my life. This problem you have now, I haven’t had to deal with it much as a resident of NY as when I lived in the south.

    It’s much worse in some other places like the south or the west they will go out of their way not to offend. People just don’t want to hurt others and it’s ingrained in the culture. Now it is arguable if that is good or not, but you can’t blame them for doing what they think is right and moral.

    As for why you wouldn’t want to offend, there’s about a billion reasons, all of which I assume are common sense.

  19. Part of it can be explained as a social norm that started back in the early days when this was still the colonies. You emigrated, knew no one, so you HAD to be friendly with the neighbors. It was a matter of survival. You might need their help if your barn burned down so it was best to stay on their good side, and they on yours.

    That’s just one of many reasons.

  20. Well, the simple answer is, *I* don’t like having my feelings hurt, so I want to avoid causing others that same pain. I fully believe you can be honest and direct *without* being an asshole.

    There’s no need to cause more conflict.

  21. > keeping things real

    Oh Jesus Christ lol

    This is the whole “I’m not an asshole, I’m honest” thing when people hide behind faux honestly to justify being an asshole

  22. You’re running into cultural communication differences. Also, deep connections take time. Weeks at best, months is normal.

    No way am I going to be direct with someone I don’t know well, that’s rude as hell. I’ll be honest, but I’ll be honest while politely talking around a subject. I’d expect another American to know exactly what I mean when I’m indirect because we share context. With a foreigner, I may be aware you’re not understanding everything, but being direct is so incredibly rude I wouldn’t do it until I know you well enough to know you wouldn’t be offended. That would take way longer than a mere day spent with you.

    This is a very good video about UK vs US communication differences, in terms that can be more generally applied to other cultures. I don’t know much it will help you since it’s not about French culture, but it’s an entertaining watch. https://youtu.be/Jbu-eMcEF3s

  23. You might be with people also not from NY, but generally if I’m not close friends with you, I don’t really want to hear your opinion and I don’t want to share with you my feelings. So I keep the conversation surface level and keep it moving.

  24. It’s possible to be honest, direct, *and* kind. Some people seem to think that “being honest and direct” is a license to be a jerk.

  25. I can assure in my experience Americans are not afraid of hurting other people’s feelings.

  26. I’m thinking about how the French and the Americans interact, and…

    Perhaps the problem is that you don’t feel you have a good understanding of a person until you know what the person dislikes? That you can’t feel you have rapport with someone unless you have witnessed their sadness, their anger?

    And to that I say: you’ve seen it, but you don’t recognize it because it’s expressed differently. Americans express distaste with their feet. They simply avoid what they don’t like, and will stop it from dwelling in their person if they can afford to avoid it.

    If you’re waiting to see someone’s depression, you will not. If you’re waiting to witness their disgust, see them seethe, they will not. Even among New Yorkers this is rare. New Yorkers will express annoyance, impatience, and disdain, but deep-seated loathing, animated vendettas, and long bouts of sorrow are still incredibly rude. These are the sort of things that end friendships, not cement them.

  27. I think that one of the biggest differences between the Northern/Central European (I am counting French with this) approach to interpersonal relationships and the American one is taking offense at “falseness” or “dishonesty.”

    Some Americans are direct and blunt and share all their feelings and opinions, others are always smiling and joking and would never show their pain or distress. The second approach is more the norm on the West Coast and in the Midwest and South, whereas the blunt approach is more common in the Northeast and Mountain West. Some people prefer one type of personality to another. But nobody considers the smiley, jokey kind of personality to be “offensive” or “insulting”

    People who claim to be European on this sub often perceive that kind of friendliness and niceness to be a personal insult if it’s not accompanied by a genuine desire to be close with that person. Nobody raised in the US would see that as offensive or cruel. Silly, sure. Maybe even a little annoying. But never insulting or hurtful. Maybe the fact that it’s such a big country with so many regional cultures means that we are more tolerant of a variety of personalities and affects.

    EDIT: Changed “As” to “at” in the first paragraph

  28. There are some hills I’d rather not die on. It takes more effort to be an asshole than to live and let live. I’m not afraid to disagree or criticize, but I have to weigh what I have to gain.

  29. I don’t want to hurt anyone, and these computer screens have allowed everyone to forget one important thing.. you never know what the next man is dealing with in life. You say the wrong thing and you might find a foot in your ass.

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