BF (40m) claims he is not punishing or withholding with/from me (40f)

45 comments

1. i know you said you’re going to stay with him and you love him but wow not even a kiss in two years like how does he not want to kiss you 🤨

2. You and him both are making his problem your problem. You can’t force therapy with someone who doesn’t want it.

3. You don’t get him to therapy. You get yourself out of this horrendous relationship. This guy sounds like a 2 dimensional narcissist. It seems like you don’t love yourself enough. You’re wasting your precious life with this dead end mess. Please get out and salvage your future.

4. Unfortunately, you can’t force an adult who refuses therapy into it.

   You should not be yelling at your partner for sure, that isn’t healthy. You know that he has intellectual disabilities so I think you need to work a bit harder when it comes to communicating in a way that he understands.

   If he needs tasks to be organized by order of importance, then give him a numbered list and tell him that they are in order. Give him a deadline. If he still doesn’t do them, then you know his pushback is because he just wants an excuse not to help around the house. Then you have to decide if you want to be with a person like that.

   If he has really been so unhappy and on eggshells for 8 years, I don’t understand why you two are still together. You don’t show each other affection and it sounds like you have daily issues.

   What happens if he never goes to therapy? Will you be happy with not having sex for the rest of your life? Do you want to make accommodations for his special needs for life?

   It sounds like you want him to change, but he won’t. So at this point you have to ask yourself, are you going to compromise so that you aren’t yelling at your partner, or are you going to leave?

5. To quote a boomer meme an ex-colleague just fired at me as she does every friday beer o’clock

   “He’s the perfect man for me, now all i need to do is change his personality, his clothes, his friends, his hairstyle……”

   To be more descriptive, you need to learn and accept that the reality he lives in, will be the reality he lives in until he dies.

   That’s what came with his cognitive differences

6. He sounds like a really annoying roommate rather than a boyfriend.

7. What would happen if you just picked one? “Fix my car door first” then what happens?

8. No affection in years? Time to bail.

9. You haven’t had zen in 8 years, he hasn’t kissed you in two, he’s mean spirited and breaks you down until you yell then turns it on you. Fuck that guy, why are you still with him? You need to stand up for yourself

10. Sounds like he may be autistic, has he been checked or is this his learning disability?

    As I struggle with knowing what takes priority. So the work around for me and the wife is instead of bullet pointing the list write 1 to x.

    That way number 1 comes first. Might just help you navigate these situations

11. You don’t get him to therapy. You can’t make someone go to therapy that doesn’t want to go. The only thing you can do, since you say you aren’t leaving him, is change yourself. Instead of yelling, go down the rabbit hole with him and just ask him questions instead.

    him: Are you sure that’s the best use of my time?

    you: What do YOU think is the best use of your time?

    If he’s gonna waste your time, waste his. The man is 40, I highly doubt he’s going to change his ways. Especially if this is how it’s been in the last 2 decades of you being with him. Don’t waste your energy yelling at him, don’t tell him he’s pushing your buttons, just entertain him. I say this option only because you won’t leave him. He won’t change, so you’re going to have to.

12. If you aren’t going to leave, you just have to accept that this how life is going to be from now on; you can’t make him do anything, so……learn to suck it up I guess.

13. So, he’s autistic and probably has ADHD, maybe even OCD, right?

    So, you can’t change this, he can’t not do this. He was told to do something, he will not be able to start it without being told where to start (or whatever else his brain needs to begin action), this is who he is.

    No amount of talk therapy is going to get him to be different.

    The sex and kissing, depending on how often you yell at him, means he doesn’t feel comfortable around you. He doesn’t do that because he’s uncomfortable so he doesn’t want to do that. These are also things he will not just do just because you want him to, he has to want to do them . His statement about walking on eggshells is completely right, he tries his best and he gets yelled at, and he doesn’t and will never understand why.

    He does not think like you, or most people, his mind works different, he shows and receives emotions differently, this is not a choice for him. You can’t seem to understand that. If you did get him into marriage counseling, I’m sure that is what the counseling would center around, you accepting the way he is as something he can’t control, not him changing the way he is.

14. There are bigger issues where his comprehension (or lack thereof) is really not the issue.

    When people say “why would I spend the money on therapy when I know what they are going to say and I know the answers already”.

    Okay, then why aren’t you applying that knowledge to fix the problem as a team? Instead of potentially withholding it and behaving the same as usual that leads to conflict? It takes two people to create a conflict – changing the approach to be solutions focused in a way that compromises and tries to meet both your needs requires a level of emotional maturity and acceptance thar being together is a choice you are making because you enjoy being together.

    but if thats no longer true, it might be time to re-evaluate how much effort this is taking for little reward or understanding.

15. It sounds like you were making it into a fight. These conversations don’t seem unreasonable tbh. Why do you assume its *him* that needs therapy? Why are you trying to *fix* him? This does seem more like a you problem if I’m honest.

16. The problem is he doesn’t think he needs therapy. Even if you drag him to therapy it’s not going to do anything for him if he isn’t willing to discuss and listen with an open mind.

    So either you accept him completely as who he is (a know-it-all man who’s unwilling to see his own faults), or you move on.

17. Question for you – does he have ADHD? I can see myself in him a fair amount from your description so just curious

18. Wow. I actually know a guy exactly like this. I salute your stamina. And the wish you the best!!

19. id start recording him and making note of everything he does, take note of the reality he thinks is the only one and if he has a problem with that just tell him u are taking notes of the sensible reality and report your findings back to other people and see if what he’s putting you through is worth it. see if the ppl who think he’s amazing is really all that amazing and let him know if he’s walking on eggshells bc he can’t be sensible accommodating or let alone understanding to you then it’s time to crack those eggs and take a break.

20. Why do you keep a bad roommate around? He isn’t showing you any affection and loves to be incompetent. What does he bring into the relationship?

21. Weaponized incompetence, and punishing as manipulation tactic.

    Sounds like a big man baby who puts on his charm when he’s around other people, not you.

    He doesn’t value you and he honestly sounds boring and pathetic.

22. >We are happy most of the day

    If he hasn’t even kissed you in 2 years I highly doubt this is true.

23. I’m curious as to why you couldn’t tell him which one was top priority? I get you are with them 2 decades, but I’ve worked with guys like this, and when given the list of task and told them the priority, we never saw them for the rest of the day. They just wanted a starting point and went from there.

24. He seems like the kind of guy that will never in a million years go to therapy or admit he needs help. Phrase it so therapy is presented as a benefit to you to help you understand him better, it’s not about him changing. Obviously it’s about both of you, but I don’t see a chance of this guy deciding to go if he thinks he will have to admit fault and change (and obviously he would).

    I’d go the route of coddling his ego and convincing him that he is doing you a favor by going, make him feel like the hero, then get him in the room and hopefully the therapist is good and will help shine some light on the situation for both of you.

25. This is probably my own bias showing, but how exactly are you happy most of the day when intimacy has been totally absent for years? Not that it’s necessary for everyone, but it’s one of the things you mention in your post, so it clearly weighs on you. 8 years is a LONG time to go without, especially from 32-40. Like…how?

    I’m not going to tell you to leave him because you make it pretty clear that’s not what you’re looking for. Also, I don’t think he was being unreasonable. The conversation you laid out makes him sound like he’s neurodivergent and trying to be helpful, followed by you getting frustrated at his need for clarification. This doesn’t paint you in the best light. Frankly, I do not understand how the facts of zero intimacy and the conversation you laid out existing in your relationship and your insistence to stay together co-exist. Two decades of this sounds miserable.

26. How are you happy with someone who not only can’t figure shit out himself at but hasn’t kissed you in two years and you haven’t had sex with in 8?! There are much better men out there. You example annoyed me too. He’s never gonna change. He’s 40 and this is who he is.

    Does he have to be told what to do first every day at work? If not that proves he can do things on his own. You’re not his Mommy.

27. Like…..what advice do you want from us here? He’s not going to go to therapy and he’s not going to change. You have agreed to live like this. That’s all there is to it.

28. If the genders were reversed this entire sub would be vilifying OP for yelling at his spouse. They’d say yelling is never acceptable. Let’s keep the same energy…

    You have no valid reason to be yelling at him. You yourself admit he has certain learning disabilities. You, by your own admission, have no patience for it whatsoever. You do come off as angry because there’s no reason to get THAT worked up over the example conversation you provided.

    You have a problem. There’s not really anything wrong with how he’s handled anything you’ve mentioned. That said, you clearly are incompatible. You sound like you don’t even like him and it sounds like you’re not willing to communicate with him the way he clearly needs you to. Why are y’all still together?

    He deserves someone with patience and without anger issues and you deserve someone who can contribute to your peace and not disrupt it. It’s not his fault, and I’d wager it isn’t your fault either. Y’all just aren’t compatible whatsoever.

29. OP,

    Your husband might be a little more extreme than I am, but my wife and I have had similar issues (married 22 years).

    My wife got me to counseling by saying: “I love you, but I feel like we are roommates. I won’t leave you while the kids are still in the house, but I don’t want to live this way after they’re gone and I’d rather be on my own unless something changes.”

    We’ve been in therapy for 2 months now. Biggest help for me was emotional validation. I was even given an emotional wheel with colors to try and figure out what I’m feeling😉. The emotional validation script might help.

    https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-emotional-validation-425336

    I loved your dialogue example. You should have some fun back with him since he is so logical.

    Example:

    Him: what’s the most important job?

    You: the second one on the list.

    Him: why is it listed as number 2?

    You: because I wanted to make sure you did #1 first.

    Him: then why isn’t that one the most important?

    You: it is, that’s why it’s number 1, but you still have to do #2.

30. Honestly is sounds like he may be autistic. I relate (but have learned to work around) not knowing where to start without things ranked by priority. And it sounds like his brain just can’t process it without all the data. But he should be intelligent enough to put together that the way he does thinks isn’t working and adjust his approach.

31. Since you aren’t going to leave him, this IS your life and always will be. He’s not going to change. I’m not sure why you still have hope at this point. He’s NOT going to change. He has zero intention on working on himself and he doesn’t see himself as the problem. Of course, there’s a high chance he does know he’s the problem ( I’m sure he’s around other people other than you) but he also knows he can do it to you. No affection in two years? I mean, I have no idea why you put up with this. Next time he tries to have a conversation like this, do this:
    Floor needs sweeping.
    Are you sure that’s the best use of my time?
    Yes.
    But..bla bla
    Yes, sweep the floor please and then fix the door handle please. Thanks.
    But..bla bla
    Please sweep the floor first and then the door handle. After that come back and I’ll give you the next thing to do. Thanks.

    And so on. And so on. Stay calm. Don’t yell. Don’t let him push your buttons.
    Just keep repeating as bored as possible. If he ends up not doing it, remind him later on, hey you haven’t done this, it still needs doing. Now would be great. Thanks.

32. You claim this guy is smart on paper but if he were smart he’d actually understand how to work around his learning disabilities to be more efficient, ie taking notes. My wife and I are both exceptional in our fields (she’s an MD/PhD and I’m a JD/PhD) and we both have multiple learning disabilities – Autism and ADHD, and my wife has OCD as well and I have chronic depression. I’m assuming your boyfriend has similar learning disabilities given the description.

    However, unlike your boyfriend, we put the work in. I write down every single thing I think I’m going to need to remember or reference, or when people talk to me I’m writing down random things in my head that are tangentially related but I’ll need to remember later and they happened to pop in my head now instead of a more convenient time. I have a million alarms and calendars on my phone because I know if I don’t see something at the exact right time I’m going to forget about it.

    My wife and I are both “accountability buddies” for each other. For example, I’ll say “I want to change the cat litter but I have to finish this other task I just thought of first, if you notice the cat litter isn’t changed in an hour give me a holler.” Usually the act of saying it out loud means I’m more likely to remember, but if I forget (very common with ADHD) my wife knows what my goal was and can help redirect me (assuming she doesn’t also forget, because of the ADHD lol).

    Point is, **you shouldn’t have to ask him to do these things**. He’s a grown man, and learning disability or not he can see what needs to be done and come to his own conclusion, and if not he can go around and make a list of things that he thinks need to be done, show you that list, and you help direct or redirect him. He’s not putting in any work. You are not his mother nor his manager. There shouldn’t be a fight about which takes precedence because you shouldn’t be doling out tasks like a manager, he should be doing chores on his own.

    Your partner is a “genius” but he’s resting on his own self-congratulatory laurels. If he were a genius he’d be interested in actually maximizing his potential, instead of relying on you to do so much soft work for him without actually putting in his own work. He’s never going to realize his potential like this and you’re never going to be happy like this. Tell him to do the work, or go find someone who will.

33. dear god leave him he sounds exhausting

34. Why don’t you just pick one? Or, list the items in priority of importance to you?

35. >He hasn’t kissed me in nearly 2 years, no sex in 8 years
    >
    >I love this man. I am not leaving him.

    If you will put up with 0 affection from your spouse forever, clearly you can also put up with his arguing and refusal to go to therapy as well. Your answer to this question is the same as to you answer to everything else wrong with the relationship – suck it up, because he won’t change.

36. He’s good. That’s some pretty smooth DARVO-ing. This is exceptionally manipulative. If he goes to therapy, I bet you $100 he’ll only get harder to deal with. Some folks just improve their manipulation skills in therapy, nobody can wield therapy language like a NPD (not saying he’s npd, just an example).

    Also: 8 fucking years with no fucking? Holy moly. 2 years without a kiss? I think you’re the one who actually needs to go to therapy. That’s a lot of emotional abuse for one lady. Seriously, get a therapist who will set you straight that this is your only life and this guy is treating you like crap, on purpose. He knows exactly what he’s doing

37. I’m not saying either of you is right but your example is such a petty thing to have an argument about. At any point you could have just told him that you definitely wanted him to do this one first, or at any point he could have said “okay, I’ll just choose one.” Now you have no control over him pushing your buttons (intentional or otherwise) but you absolutely do have control over how you respond, so I would start there. The way you two are communicating is definitely not productive and it takes an active choice to start communicating better. You could have said something like “Honey, it really doesn’t matter to me which of these you do first but it is important to me that they both get done today. If your intention is to say that you don’t think you will have time to do both, we need to have a conversation about why that is so that I can understand your concerns and we can work out a solution together.”

    > Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.

    -Viktor Frankl

38. Wow. You have thrown away your life on an obnoxious manchild who thinks he’s perfect in every way and doesn’t need to change a thing. I can’t imagine being with someone so self-righteous. He sounds insufferable.

    You still have time to leave and be happy. Extricate yourself from codependency and leave him.

39. Even if your psychologist says *he* is not abusive, his behaviour absolutely is, regardless of his intentions.

    He’s never going to change, because he has told you repeatedly that you are 100% of the problem and you’re the only one who needs to change.

    So, knowing that this abusive pattern of behaviour is going to continue horse long as you were in this relationship, how much longer do you actually want to be in this relationship?

    You deserve so much better than this manipulative, weaponized incompetence, pointlessly argumentative, dump all the mental load on the woman in the relationship bullshit. He sounds fucking exhausting.

40. This is a joke right? You haven’t kissed in 2 years, no sex in 8 years but, wait for it, ‘he’s AMAZING and I LOVE him!’

41. Info: how can he be sure he knows everything if he doesn’t know how to prioritise a chore list?

    Honestly he sounds exhausting and I’m amazed you’ve lasted this long.

    I don’t think you’ll ever be able to get him to see your point of view, or change, as he simply believes himself better than everyone.

    But with the chore list issue, its simple. You wrote him a list. Tell him to start at the top, and work his way down, as clearly thats the order your unconscious put them it (just dont tell him that, merely say that’s the order of priority)

42. Here is a hard truth. He will not change. He has zero interest to do so. You can either accept this is how it is or you can leave and make a better and more peaceful life for yourself.

43. Your bf enjoys pushing your buttons to make you feel crazy. It’s as simple as that, you just have to decide if you’re willing to spend the rest of your life like that.

44. >And if they usually end with me yelling, even briefly, he punishes me by withholding affection. He hasn’t kissed me in nearly 2 years, no sex in 8 years.

    Yeah, nah, I don’t care about his grab bag of other issues.

    I wouldn’t put up with this particular kind of garbage unless he was an absolute saint in all other realms and a truly legendary dad to your kids. But he just plain sucks more days then not, is an emotional leech, is arrogant, needy, and to add insult to injury, he won’t even kiss you. Then claims he’s too good for a therapist or counselor and knows better than them or you.

    >I love this man. I am not leaving him.

    “Codependent no More” by Melody Beattie.

    >He says he isn’t punishing me – I just need to get my anger under control and just be happy.

    *Every accusation is really a confession.* Repeat this in your head, when you’re thinking about him.

    He won’t get *his* anger under control.

    He won’t stop being passive-aggressive and instigating fights and arguments when you need something from him, heaven forbid.

    He likes being angry…… and acting happy and normal is about as entertaining to him as watching paint dry,

    Because he’s a rather joyless individual and can’t define the idea of satisfaction, but momentary pleasure and shallow lip service and attentioni will do. Righteous indignation and manufactured victimhood is more fun for him because it’s better than being bored and *lonely* which he often is.

    >He claims he walks on eggshells and can’t be himself around me and because his friends, family and coworkers all think he is so fun, so laid back and a joy to be around

    Suspect thst most of his family treat him like the Golden Child. This is a common abusive family scenario, it isn’t love, appreciation, or concern.

    His coworkers don’t like him but find his antics amusing, sometimes. As long as they don’t have to work with him. Those that have to work with him, loathe him and complain about him behind his back after a few weeks.

    His doesn’t keep a lot of friends long term, and has burned a lot of bridges, but he has lots of new ones….sort of. His few longtime friends stay with him out of pity and codependency, though they also find him tiresome.

    Let me know if any of these ring a bell.

45. I’m not sure what the end goal of this is.

    What do you want from us? You’re upset about the way he is and spent the whole post ranting about it….but then also said that you’re not gonna leave him? You mentioned several times that you want him to change but that he hasn’t and refuses to. So you can’t have both. You either accept the way he is and change yourself OR you leave. Those are your only two options.

    [Little side note, there’s no way to withhold sex, as withholding insinuates that you’re entitled to someone’s body, which nobody is. But withholding affection and intimacy is very real and what he’s doing]