My brother and his fiance have been together for a little over a year, engaged for six months. So yes, he got engaged to a 21yo after dating for six months while he was 27. We’ve had a conversation with him about her maturity level and how it would be a good idea to at least wait a few years before getting married, but he is planning to go ahead with the wedding anyway.
His fiance is beyond immature, as you would expect for a 22yo who’s had everything handed to her. She is currently working an entry-level office job and regularly calls in sick or just doesn’t go. Last week she told them she needed to leave at 3pm to get to the (large chain) pharmacy known for being open 24 hours “before they close”. And then came to family dinner and bragged about it.
More relevant to the post, she’s just really annoying. She is oblivious to social cues and cannot hold a conversation about anything other than herself. When she’s the center of attention, she’s super bubbly and outgoing. If she’s not the center of attention, she sits in a corner looking like someone just ran over her dog. She cannot contribute to a group conversation other than to tell an unrelated story about herself. She’s also unable to control her drinking and gets sloppy drunk at every family gathering, usually in the first hour or two. Including my 8yo’s birthday party this weekend.
My husband and I are beyond over it, but don’t know how to handle it. My parents and sister see it and are bothered too, but refuse to say anything that would rock the boat. They say she was never really parented so it isn’t her fault and we should just leave her be. It’s getting to the point where we don’t really want to spend time around her, and we really don’t want our kids learning that behavior or seeing the excessive drinking.
I’ve already told her she’s not allowed to hold our baby if she’s had *any* alcohol, and was crucified for that because it upset her. I’m getting close to just telling our parents that I’m not coming around with the kids while she’s there, but that basically means my kids don’t get to see their grandparents most weekends because she’s always around.
I’ve also pointed out to her a couple of times when she’s been acting inappropriately. Derailing conversation at someone else’s bridal shower with conversation about her own wedding. Rambling incessantly at a baby shower about how she’s going to have babies soon too and how she needs to buy a new SUV because her sedan just doesn’t have enough room for a family.
How far out of line would I be to just start calling out her shitty behavior as soon as it happens?
Tl;dr: my brother’s fiance is awful to be around. How mean is it for me to just start correcting all of her bad behaviour, basically the same way I would with one of my kids?
25 comments
What does your brother say about all this, Op?
Has anyone talked to him about her behavior? If not, why not?
I am all for calling her out and explaining to her why it is rude.
Try not to be passive aggressive. “Oh, so it’s about you now,” won’t work as well as a whispered, “I think she needs the spotlight now.” Or something better. I’m pretty passive aggressive.
She sounds *emotionally immature* and it is governing her conduct. You should google that term and check out the psychological sites referencing the behavior. If it sounds appropriate at all, maybe there’s some work-around listed which will aid you in coping with her presence and behavior. I would hate to see you have to separate yourselves from your birth family’s gatherings just to avoid someone who is difficult to tolerate.
I wish you luck finding some sort of resolution to this which will be least damaging for your family overall.
Her behavior will only change if it’s more than you trying to help her mature and change.
If it’s only you, you will lose because she will be willing to be more outrageous than you, and will manipulate everyone into thinking you are the problem.
The only option is when she sulks in the corner because nobody is letting her shine, that your brother and she are asked to leave in order for her to rest because “she’s obviously too tired right now”. Say it with a concerned tone and zero anger. Several people need to say it.
When she interrupts anyone, the entire group needs to refuse to allow her to do so. She has to wait. “Suzi, please wait a moment, so& so isn’t finished speaking” and then EVERYONE needs to agree, but nicely and sweetly. Overly sweet if possible.
She’ll run off crying, let her. Do not chase her. This is critical. If she cries and disrupts the party, she should be sent home to “rest”. Never give in. Not even once. Even if she “accidentally” cuts her finger, falls and twists her ankle, chokes on her food, had a bug bite her, was scared by the dog, breaks a nail, drops a glass, or any of the attention attempts that mistakenly happens. And take note of her accidents, and remind her when she arrives at the next party to be careful that she doesn’t “drop a glass” again or whatever.
This is critical, because everyone at the party is alerted to her previous bad behavior. If you are able to say it sweetly when everyone is listening, you might take away her ammo.
After a while, she’ll either start to change, or she’ll begin to fight back, and stop coming over, keeping your brother from visiting too. Then over time, he’ll either beg everyone to “be patient” or after being ostracized with her, maybe will see the truth of her behavior, because that’s the problem here.
He can’t see her ugliness. He’s immune. Help him see who she can s by setting her up to respond in situations she hates. Hopefully he wakes up before it’s too late.
I don’t know that calling her out will do any good. Kind of hard to reason with the unreasonable! And the blackout drunk.
I do think you can be honest but calm about why you/your kids aren’t around.
“Brittany’s behavior while drunk is not something we want our kids to see/want to be around.”
“But she’s 22 and was raised by the Manson family! How could you?”
“I understand that. She is making her choices and we are making ours.”
Does this mean your parents are missing out on Family Time and getting to pretend everything is cool? Yes. Natural consequences, baby! Let your parents and other relatives know they are welcome to see the kids sans bro/his fiancée. It will sort itself out.
Most of this is annoying but not anything worth calling out. She’s bad at socializing – that’s a pain in the ass but not something you’re going to fix by calling her out.
But you’re certainly well within your rights to ask her to leave your own events if she’s drunk, to not have booze at your kids’ birthday parties in the first place, or to put whatever other guard rails in place that you think are appropriate to protect your kids from an alcoholic. That might unfortunately mean you don’t get to see as much of the rest of your family, if you choose to draw your boundaries in a different place than your parents. So be it. You get to decide what your own priorities are for your kids.
If your brother doesn’t care then there’s no point calling her out. You’ll just create conflict between yourself and your brother. Just try to limit the time you are around her.
Why do you feel the need to be the spokesperson here? Just let her go. She will cut her own throat given time. Protect your kids from her but let her cut people out all on her own.
Regarding your 8 year old’s party though, surely that outcome of her becoming messy was predictable for you? I’d have kids parties free of alcohol for the time being, until Missy learns some self control.
Unpopular opinion she’s not an alcoholic she’s just immature. I don’t think calling her out would be a bad idea at all. Either she’ll start to learn or you’ll be separated from her anyway.
I’d suggest you just let her be her, and stop trying to police her behavior. None of it seems to impact you. You set boundaries on holding your baby which is perfectly fine. Other than that, she’s not hurting anyone, and if she’s making a fool out of herself that’s on her. Not sure why you are looking down on her so hard.
Honestly you’re not being reasonable either. Have your boundaries with your own kids, fair enough. But calling her out at bad socializing is also derailing, just re direct like an adult. If you actually cared you would have a private conversation with her. Putting people on the spot is also poor form, so you are not being that mature yourself. You’ve said your peace so now play nice and minimize time with her if it’s that bad.
Honestly, get over it and butt- out , you’ve already talked to him about it, you really have no control or say in who your brother dates //marries
Love is blind and your brother sounds like he doesn’t seem to mind her behavior. From what I can tell, she’s definitely too immature to get married.
Unfortunately, you either put up with her or cut your brother out of your life. I had my fair share of experience dealing with this. No easy way out.
Very far out of line, not your job. Just stop being around her.
You’ve talked to your brother and he’s basically ignored you. Decide what your boundaries are and stand by them. I call it mama bear mode.
Ex: I will not tolerate xx around my children.
Xx = drunken behavior, disrespectful comments or behavior, rudely interrupting conversations… basically no manners.
The next time it happens, tell your husband and parents it’s time to go… and leave. Do this every time she violates a boundary.
Or discuss the problem & your boundaries with your parents and inform them you won’t visit any more with her there. You can’t control who they invite to their home. Suggest changing the weekend day of your visit. If everyone is there on Saturday, you’ll start visiting on Sunday. Or vice versa.
Explain how the behavior is inappropriate and bad for your children. Focus on her behavior… not her as a person.
If the alternate weekend day is not an option, ask them to visit you in your home … say once or twice a month (without her) because you want to maintain the relationship with their grandkids.
Your parents may feel so uncomfortable with this that they may speak to your brother about it. If they’re not the type to rock the boat… you brother will notice you aren’t around and start asking questions. At which point you’re prepared to explain your reasons. You’re protecting your kids from her rude, interrupting and drunken behavior.
You can discuss it with your brother after talking to your parents, or maybe with them 🤷🏻♀️… to which he may be amenable to talking to her or he may scream bloody murder. Remind him you requested his help and his option to be patient was not viable for your young and impressionable kids.
His request for patience jeopardizes your children’s well-being. Ask him if he would want that type of behavior around his future children. Wouldn’t he expect her to get her act together then? (If not, there’s something wrong with your brothers values.)
Tell him you love him but won’t tolerate the behavior from a stranger much less someone in the family. If your Mom or Dad behaved like this … they wouldn’t see your children either.
The boundaries message will be very loud if your sister alternates weekend days with you or visits at your house too.
Afterthought… she’s regularly getting drunk… that’s so disrespectful of anyone in my parents home. My parents would tell me to have a talk with that person or they will.
Good luck 🍀
It’s really not your business what your brother does. If you are around her treat her with respect, just like you would treat other visitors.
It sounds like you and your family members are a too judgmental honestly. Her just being “really annoying” and “not picking up social cues” maybe she’s reacting to how you’re making her feel? Maybe you should just talk to her directly instead of telling your family reasons x y and z on why you don’t like her. You’re being a bully. If your brothers happy let him be happy, don’t start cutting him off and dividing the family because you don’t approve. It’s manipulative. I don’t care if I get downvoted I thought this post was a little harsh and I feel bad for that girl.
I’m more concerned that a 28 year old man is rushing into marriage with an extremely immature 21 year old. If anyone is being taken advantage of here, it’s probably her. The fact that she’s annoying doesn’t change that.
You are clearly very angry with her – but your brother is the one marrying her.
When she interrupts, let her tell her story and then say, ‘going back to what we were previously talking about…’
You aren’t going to stop that and perhaps she will learn.
The constant drinking is not cool and I think those are very fair boundaries. She doesn’t need to hold children when she is drinking. Part of being an adult is knowing there is a time and a place to act like that. A child’s birthday party is not it. And the fact she brought her own shows she knew that it wasn’t the place to drink…. does she have a drinking problem? Because alcoholics do that. Normal people without addiction do not.
>Tl;dr: my brother’s fiance is awful to be around. How mean is it for me to just start correcting all of her bad behaviour, basically the same way I would with one of my kids?
Worse than mean: distinctly counterproductive. There’s a chance between “no way in hell” and “hahaha are you kidding me” that doing so will make any of this stuff better for you. The reason this kind of thing works with your kids is that you have outrageously powerful leverage over them. Something you don’t have over another adult.
The chances of her taking criticism constructively are basically a function of her level of maturity. If she were mature enough to take your criticism well, she would necessarily not be as immature as you say.
What you can do is be firm with her about what you’re willing to tolerate around your children, and *follow through* on enforcing your boundaries. She wants to have some drinks and play with your kids? Too bad. She insists and throws a shitfit over it? Hit the bricks. She does so repeatedly? Stop coming to things she’s at. And in the case of explanations, really the whole crux of the issue is that less is more. “I don’t want my kid around you when you’re drunk” is a perfectly sufficient explanation. Don’t justify it or argue over it or negotiate. She is the one who has damaged the trust in the relationship here and it is on her to not weedle over it but to *exceed* your expectations in order to get back to a baseline.
Adult ADHD or on the spectrum? Esp the not understanding social cues.
Realistically how often do you see and are around her? People are different and we can’t expect them to be what we would prefer them to be. This girl is not financially dependent on you, she doesn’t live at your house. She’s your brother’s choice. It sounds like you are just annoyed that she wasn’t the choice *you* would have made for him. Why are you so bothered by her instead of just ignoring her? What does her personality take away from you? And no, there’s no *”reasonable thing for the rest of the family to do”*. Don’t be that annoying, creepy sister who only wants to control her brother’s love life. This is the your business.
The store front may be open 24 hours but I highly doubt that the pharmacist and medication pickups are there 24 hours per day. I would guess most pharmacists are gone by 4 or 5pm
Also how do you know when she calls out of work?
You never stated how old you and your husband are
Okay she’s clearly doing some inappropriate things like alcohol at a child’s birthday party. And she’s very immature. But also, she’s quite a bit younger and getting married and the constant drinking could be a sign of some other mental struggles. At the end of the day though I would really look at the fact that your brother is looking at this girl who’s so much younger and getting engaged to her so fast. That sounds predatory.
Of all the things you pointed out, I’m just amazed that you think her not being completely dedicated to a bullshit “entry-level” job is one of them. Get that boot out of your mouth, employers get what they pay for. I’m a professional in the finance industry and I’ll call out with bullshit excuses if I feel like it too.
In fact, one of the best parts about advancing your career is how much easier it is to call out without having a manager breathe down your neck or demand a doctor’s note.
I like her a lot more than I like you for treating a bullshit job with the respect it deserves. She was right to brag about how stupid her employer is and how she got one over on them to leave early and do something fun.
Also oh wow, she talked about her wedding at a wedding. And she talked about the babies she wants at a baby shower. How terribly topical she is.