This is a very sensitive one. A few months ago a good friend (F31) of mine (F31) lost her twin girls after surgery at 23 weeks. Understandably the couple asked for some space from everyone to grieve and process it all. A month or so later I sent a message that didn’t require a reply – I lost my mum last year so we both have grief in our lives. She did choose to respond and suggested meeting at some point.
Today I’m visiting, along with my 10 month old (I gave her options that meant my son wouldn’t have to be there).
We’ve known each other for over 10 years, but after going through something so awful, I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how to approach the subject, if at all? Do’s and don’ts for what to say etc
Thank you ❤️
Edit: I just got back from visiting. It went really well and I was straight up like many of you advised, saying fine if she’d like to talk about it, fine if not and fine if she changes her mind. We did end up talking about it and crying, and I hope I helped a bit by listening and having shared certain parts of her experience.
I learned their names are Sophie and Rosie – so I’ll be raising a glass to them, and everyone else who has lost someone this evening. Thank you and much love X
37 comments
I would get the topic out early in case anyone feels awkward – last thing you want is to dance around it. If she’s shared the babies’ names make sure to use them when speaking about them. I would also make it clear I can have no idea what they’ve gone through and are going through but that babies and parents are in my thoughts a lot.
I have friends going through similar now – they were luckier and one of their twins survived, but is still in hospital at 12 weeks. It’s incomprehensible and there’s nothing wrong with saying so.
Express your sympathy, if she’s a hugger give her a hug. Ask her how she’s doing. Don’t ask if she’s “OK”, she’s not and there’s a societal expectation to say yes to that question. Let her know you are happy to talk about it if she wants to but if she would rather not then you are happy to talk about other things. Help her feel that whatever emotions she’s feeling are ok by you, that you’re not going to judge her for being too sad/not sad enough. Check on her physical wellbeing too, she’s also gone through surgery and she’s probably not been looking after herself as well as she normally would. Be aware of if she’s finding it too much and be prepared to leave early. Don’t overthink it though, you’ve already shown you’re a caring, considerate friend & you know her, you’ll get it right
My approach is to ask straight up – “what do you need today? I can talk about absolute rubbish so all you need to do is listen, or we can talk about the girls, or whatever you want. And if at any point you need to stop and go home, that’s completely fine and I don’t want you to apologise.”
I am rubbish at emotions so my blundering way in these situations is to say “do you want to talk about it or do you want to talk about anything but?”
This worked for me when I was having some difficult times as sometimes I needed to vent and sometimes I wanted to forget about it and just pretend everything was back to normal.
Do allow for the fact that they may change their mind though!
You can’t pretend that the deaths didn’t happen so, as someone has suggested, just ask how you can help. Maybe your friend just wants to talk about it outside the family. Maybe just a hug and tears. Just be straight up with her.
Tell her you’re sorry about what happened. Acknowledge that her babies existed and were loved and wanted. Just straight up tell her that you don’t know what to say or do, but that you’re there for her and you can do whatever she wants.
Do not, under any circumstances, say anything like it was God’s plan, or they must have been needed elsewhere, or that it wasn’t meant to be. When I lost my baby boy at 18 weeks some people said things like that, and it is in no way comforting.
Open up the possibility of talking, but make it clear she doesn’t have to.
Avoid absurd comments like “at least they’re not suffering”; “they’re in a better place”, etc. Although as someone who’s lost your mum, I don’t imagine you’d say things like that!
A good friend of mine lost her mum recently. She went offff on someone who said “at least she isn’t in pain any more” (she’d had a long cancer battle). My friend knew her mum wasn’t in pain any more – but it didn’t change or mitigate the fact that she’d just died.
Thank you all very much for your considerate advice. Reassuring to see it’s similar to how I think I would have gone about it, and some good ideas I hadn’t thought of.
Sharing the love!
I would just say ‘How are you feeling?’ And let her talk. Say to her at the start that you don’t know if she wants to talk about it or if she doesn’t want to think about it at the moment and follow her lead.
Different thing, but I have a friend who had cancer and on one hand she felt some friends didn’t support her and ignored it (talked about nights out and parties instead) on the other she was cross some people morbidly dwelled on it when she was having a good day. Let her take the lead.
Acknowledge her children, she’s stll a mother even though her babies aren’t with her. Don’t treat her differently when meeting up – if you usually hug, then hug. Its a big red flag as soon as your good friends start acting different.
Or if you do feel too awkward then simply “i don’t know what to say” goes a long way rather than awkwardness.
She’ll have been offered bereavement councilling but dependant on when this happened she may or may not have started this – or may never. It could maybe be useful to read up on a few high level ideas
[https://whatsyourgrief.com/grief-concept-care-continuing-bonds/](https://whatsyourgrief.com/grief-concept-care-continuing-bonds/)
People can still be really shitty and be like “move on” or “don’t think about it”- what people don’t really seem to realise with the loss of a child, you’ve lost an entire lifetime of possiblities, Dreams and aspirations. This generally seems to be from people who haven’t suffered any kind of major or unexpected loss.
Grief over the loss of a child will never go away – or any grief/trauma – I don’t obviously know the details of each of your loss but I would be careful of putting your losses in the same ‘boat’. I would bring it up but i wouldn’t do a direct comparison
Losing you child at 23 weeks in surgery sounds epicly traumatic, my son was born at 23 weeks and lived for 26 days in NICU – if someone came along saying they knew how I felt as their mother passed away i’d probably have kicked off back then. I’ve been through councilling now, read up on loss, i appreciate everyone has traume in their lives. At that time though in the year after my sons death I would have been raging at that comparison.
Saying that, my wife would have probably welcomed someone also in grief and would pour their hearts out to each other – different people react differently depending on their background. You know your friend.
Going back a couple of decades a friend of mine lost twins at birth. It is, by some margin, the saddest thing I’ve ever seen.
At the time I decided, without asking, that the last thing she needed to hear were my problems, so my conversations with her became highly edited and bland.
After a while, she asked me why I’d stopped telling her things, specifically about a relationship I was in that wasn’t going as I had hoped. I told her that I didn’t think she needed to listen to be whining about my trivial problems.
Turns out I couldn’t have been more wrong. What she was looking for from me was some “normal”. Just the regular chat we always had.
I’d suggest you try that.
I’d say the number one thing is – validate her emotions. Let her speak and validate it, “yes it’s unimaginably sad, I’m so sorry, what do you need from me today? Please feel free to talk about it as much as you like..” kind of thing. People need to be able to talk about sad and upsetting things and be heard. 💙
My partner has recently had to do a lot of work with people who are in difficult times. One of the questions they like to use is “how are you today?” rather than just “how are you?” or “is today a good/bad day?”
It gives room for the specifics of how someone is in that moment and can be easier to answer when there are big feelings involved.
Use her babies’ names.
If she’s talking about them, ask her if she has photos you can see (with all the caveats of ‘you don’t have to show me’ etc). Talk about how lovely her babies were and how sad it is.
Whatever she’s saying about how she feels, validate it.
Be prepared that you may need to leave pretty quick because your son being there may be harder than she’s expecting. She might be pushing herself to be OK with him but not actually be.
r/babyloss is a good resource, with a few threads asking questions like yours where just parents whose babies died respond.
No good advice, sorry. I know it’s vacuous, but my heart absolutely breaks for them; I wish I could send a hug along with you. ❣️❣️
Don’t be afraid to tell her you don’t know what to say/don’t have the words
Hey – my wife just miscarried during the second trimester. To be honest I would talk to your mate about literally anything other than the fact that her babies have passed away. It’ll be all she can think about, and a distraction will be most welcome.
Just ask her what you can do for her and do it
She may want to shout scream and swear at you
Let her
She may want to cry on your shoulder
Let her
She may want to hold your baby
Let her
There are no rights or wrong’s here the rule book doesn’t cover situations like this you’ll just have to make it up as you go
DO NOT say anything that starts “Well at least…”, nothing can complete that sentence to make it feel good to hear.
I have a friend going through cancer treatment, she seems to like my approach of “I’m so sorry, this is shit, there are no words”. Then hug until she lets go.
There’s not time to read it before your visit today but comedian Rob Delaney wrote a (brutal, beautiful, funny, terrifying) book about the death of his 2 year old son “A Heart That Works” and I’d strongly recommend it to anyone… just be careful about reading it on public transport if you don’t want to be seen openly weeping on your daily commute 🙂
[https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2022/oct/23/rob-delaney-comedian-we-have-a-new-capacity-for-pain-a-heart-that-works](https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2022/oct/23/rob-delaney-comedian-we-have-a-new-capacity-for-pain-a-heart-that-works)
[https://www.shondaland.com/inspire/books/a42099064/in-a-heart-that-works-rob-delaney-endures-a-parents-nightmare/](https://www.shondaland.com/inspire/books/a42099064/in-a-heart-that-works-rob-delaney-endures-a-parents-nightmare/)
His advice for helping others going thru a similar situations is best summarised in [another review](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/apr/14/a-heart-that-works-by-rob-delaney-audiobook-review-a-tender-memoir-about-the-death-of-a-child)
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>Elsewhere, Delaney articulates the love and grief that enveloped their family in Henry’s final months – “We were in hell but we were loving each other” – and offers sage advice to any listeners with friends and relatives with sick children: “Get right up in their ass and go spend time with them. They’ll kick you out if they need to, but don’t waste their time by saying ‘If there’s anything I can do, just let me know’ … You might as well yawn in their face while looking at something more exciting over their shoulder.”
Give her a big hug and you’ll both probably start crying and that’s how to start it
I lost a lot of people last year including a parent
Every grief is different, every relationship is different. Even if you have experienced exactly the same loss, it isn’t the same as hers and you don’t know how she feels. Don’t tell her how she feels (it must be hard/painful/dreadful), don’t tell her you know what she’s going through because you have experienced loss.
Be led by her. Listen carefully. Reflect back what she says. I’m hearing that you’ve been feeling confused, is fine, you must be confused is not.
Let her tell you what she needs. And be comfortable with silence if she just needs you there and not to talk.
Be straightforward.
Be honest.
Be as kind and mindful as you are capable.
I find with grief,acknowledging loss,listening,being loving all help.
I lost my daughter at a similar stage and it means the world when people use her name and ask to hear about her or perhaps ask if she has photos that she would like to share (she might not). Make sure she knows that her children will be remembered and that you acknowledge that they are very much a part of her family
Give her the space to talk about her babies, and to understand the grief you feel at having lost a parent is infinitely different to having lost a child.
I suffered a miscarriage and so many people tried to relate it to their version of grief, but it’s so different, and I didn’t want that. I just wanted them to listen and to hold me as I processed my feelings.
Please don’t use language like “I know your babies are in heaven” or “I prayed for you” unless this is something you know they would find comfort in. No you can try again or at least you know you can be pregnant. Because that will bring her no comfort, she doesn’t want to replace the babies she lost she wants them back.
Ask her what she needs? And please don’t disappear after today as that can feel just as hurtful like someone came to revel in your pain but gets to go back to their happy life. Please remember significant dates going forward like their due date, and next year their birth dates as a lot of people forget, but she will never forget the moments she found out she was pregnant, and the day she gave birth to them, or when they should have arrived. Other things like Christmas, mother’s day, father’s day can be especially painful reminders as well. As many people forget that she is a mother she just doesn’t have her children with her.
Some great advice here. Be present. Don’t have an agenda, a whole pile of useless top tips or anecdotal bilge about Aunt Rita’s neighbour’s cousin’s terrible loss at 37 weeks pregnant, or a timeline for anyone else’s grief and needs.
And don’t forget, it’s needed just as much six months, two years etc down the line. We are not good at sitting with others’ pain and grief, but trying to do it shows true care for a friend. No need to be perfect, just try. X
Start with a big hug. Don’t think you can go wrong with a hug.
definitely ask them if they need anything or if you can help in anyway. I lost my dad suddenly in November and really found out who my friends were and who wanted to reach out and text or meet up. which first time meeting will be awkward but after a while you just fall back. if they need a cry let them if they just want to talk be a listener. but just be there for that person they’ll appreciate it.
I’m really sorry for your loss and your friends loss 🧡
Not quite the same thing, but my wife has had three miscarriages and TBH I wish people would just talk about things like this more rather than keeping them hidden away. What you are doing seems to be the right approach.
One point that I feel always gets missed – she will have been through a lot, but don’t forget about her partner – it will have been emotionally draining for him too, but there is very little written about how it affects them.
Completely right approach, What do you want? Hugs no hugs, talk or just listen to me talking rubbish? (Lost a son by suicide)
We lost a little boy at a similarly age, one of the things that really upset my wife afterwards was people avoiding her and conversations about our son. Talk about your friends loss, it won’t be easy but it’s probably all consuming for your friend at the moment.
Just be a friend is the best advice I can give.
Thoughts and best wishes to your friend!
Edit: what ever you do, do not say anything similar to ‘Everything happens for a reason’ or ‘it’s all part of gods big plan’ – please please do not say anything like this!
Personally if this was the first time I’d seen my friend after such a tragic loss I would not be bringing my baby along with me. Even if it had been prior discussed and she said she was OK with it. That could be really triggering and you having to cater to your baby in her company night not be what she needs right now. Might be fine but I wouldnt want to risk it
As someone who has miscarried twice, it stays with you forever. At the time it was during lockdown so we only had each other. What I really needed at that time was a bunch of girly chats about anything, to go shopping, to eat whatever I wanted, glasses of wine. You name it, I just needed someone, and unfortunately I miscarried at the wrong time and had no one.
I bring up my lost babies all the time because I don’t want to forget them, but that took me a good solid 6 months to be able to do that, so let her talk about them if she wants to, let her know that you’re open to a conversation about then if she wants it. But also let her know that you’re there for her to do whatever she needs to do.
Hope your friends okay, mine were very early losses so I never got to know their genders (Although now I’ve got 3 boys, I do wonder if I just can’t have girls). They’re my guardian angels now and I will never forget them. ❤️
Just to add – I met this lovely group of women on Mums net who all went through the same thing as me at the same time, we all still talk now, they’re all from all over the country and between the 14 of us, every single one of us went on to have our rainbow babies over the course of 6 months. We all saved each other during that time. So tell her to try and find people in similar positions, it definitely helps having a group to lean on, even if just over the Internet.
We lost our son at 35 weeks so I can probably talk from your friend’s perspective.
I hated hearing anything along the lines of “everything happens for a reason” or “he’s in a better place”. i really appreciated the friends that just straight up said “sorry for your loss”, “how can we support you?”, “how are you feeling, what do you want to do/talk about?”. I choose to speak about my son with close friends but might not feel like doing this with everyone that’s why i think it’s important to let your friend decide whether they want to tal k about it or not but definitely do not ignore the subject completely. I know people feel awkward about these things but i still resent people that pretended that my son never existed and that ruined quite a few relationships for me.
I heard a cancer survivor talk about what people say to you when you’re going through something awful. The advice that stuck with me most was to start off with “It’s so good to see you.” It’s an important thing to hear when you’re suffering or grieving; it makes you feel welcome and doesn’t burden you with the other person’s awkwardness or need for reassurance. Then you can perhaps ask them what they need from you, as others have suggested.
Hello and this is so lovely to ask for advice. For context I had a baby who died at 20 weeks so have some idea of your friend’s perspective on this.
Ask her how she is and ask about her children. Ask their names, tell her if she wants to talk about them and what happened you want to hear because so many people keep silent and pretend it never happened and it’s crap.
Ask if she is planning to honour their due date or if they did do if that has passed, asked if they have a memorial spot or anything. Call them by their names, I cannot stress that enough.
Also- be normal. Moan, complain, celebrate, gossip. Life goes on which is what keeps you going after something horrendous and it’s brilliant to hear how it keeps going on with all the mundane everyday things that happen! X
I lost my beautiful baby girl this week at 21 weeks and I’m totally heartbroken and destroyed.
Just be there for her and ask her how she’s doing. Be led by whatever answer she gives you and go from there. It’s helped when people have told me that I’m allowed to feel whatever I want. Sadness, rage, depression, happiness sometimes even. You’ll know how to handle it on the day.