Posting this here because I thought I might getter better advice from this crowd vs r/deadbedrooms

We had a version of the talk tonight (the why don’t we have sex anymore talk). I asked if she wanted to have sex and then it became the airing of grievances. It was civil, but I don’t think we solved anything.

She shuts down just about any sign of physical contact more than a basic cuddle with no kissing or holding hands because she thinks I will try to escalate it to sex – while 99% of the time she doesn’t want to have sex and it makes her feel bad.

I can already see the comments…“So take sex off the table for 60 / 90 / 180 days.”

Here’s the problem I have with that: A) I’ve tired it and frankly nothing changed. And b) She initiates sex out of no where once every 2-3 months. Why does she get to hold the only lock and key to our sex life? Why is this not more of a shared interest like the rest of our marriage?

I understand the concept of responsive desire. I’ve tried explaining this but it’s fallen on deaf ears into the valley of “my body, my choice.” I’m not going to argue that one bit. I’m not asking anyone to do something they don’t want to. What I’m asking is for her to be open to the idea that she could reach the point where she may want to do more. As stated before she is afraid I’ll be upset if she doesn’t want to have sex when this happens. For the record – yes I have gotten sad when this happens because if not in that moment, then when? Mostly though I get upset when she looks at her phone for 30 minutes in bed and then I give her three kisses and suddenly she’s tired and wants to go to bed.

Long rant I know.

How do we solve this impasse? What are the “rules of engagement” in your house that are fair, equitable, and respectful of all involved that leave the door open to the partner with higher desire without making the partner with lower desire feel smothered or afraid they can’t say no.

5 comments

  1. I feel like today is Frustrated Horny Husband Day so I’m just saying a lot of the same stuff to my Brothers with Blue Balls (in the past for me, but I still feel your pain!), but…

    [The 6-second kiss.](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-six-second-kiss/)

    Getting that routine established with a sexually-avoidant wife is HUGE. Exactly 6 seconds. No sexual pursuit at the end (even if it riles you up). It lasts *just long enough* to be intimate.

    For the blue-balls partner: It gets you a little intimacy and gives you confidence that your partner doesn’t think you’re a disgusting troll-beast they hate (they will probably retract on the first few because they’re SO USED to avoiding you and being repelled by you)

    For the sexually avoidant: You get to remember that you’re an actual relationship partner with pumping blood without needing to commit to sex

    ​

    >Why does she get to hold the only lock and key to our sex life?

    She doesn’t hold the only lock and key to your sex life. You hold one set, also, but yours is always unlocked so it just seems like it’s not there.

    It might seem like a pointless distinction, but it’s important for you to realize because what you’ve done in this situation is what a lot of us do, which is forget that you have agency and power. (And that you are choosing to hand it all to her… and she never asked for it.)

    ​

    >Why is this not more of a shared interest like the rest of our marriage?

    Because you two have mountains of emotional baggage covered in sticks of dynamite attached to it.

    ​

    >How do we solve this impasse?

    Until you are on the same page regarding what you want out of your marriage, you can’t.

    So here’s the basic, key question: **Does your wife even want to have a more active sex life with you?**

    It’s that simple. Answering “yes” doesn’t mean “OK WE SEX NOW YAY!” but it means she would have to start actually doing the work of tending her garden (to use Nagoski language).

    – Does she read anything about sexuality and libido?

    – Does she talk with you or anyone else about why she feels so shamed or reserved?

    – Does she care whether or not your marriage survives?

    It looks like you’ve read “Come As You Are”… has she? Did she talk about it? What did she think? Did she care?

    Because if she won’t even work on it then, in MY opinion, she’s telling you that she doesn’t want to be your wife.

  2. I’ll explain but you aren’t going to like my answers.

    >She shuts down just about any sign of physical contact more than a basic cuddle with no kissing or holding hands because she thinks I will try to escalate it to sex – while 99% of the time she doesn’t want to have sex and it makes her feel bad.

    Why does she feel this way? Is this something you have done in the past? For whatever reason, your partner doesn’t feel like it’s safe to kiss you or hold your hand. Trust and safety are primary prerequisites for sex. She doesn’t trust you to touch her without pushing for more.

    >A) I’ve tired it and frankly nothing changed. And b) She initiates sex out of no where once every 2-3 months. Why does she get to hold the only lock and key to our sex life? Why is this not more of a shared interest like the rest of our marriage?

    The point of taking sex off the table is to reduce the pressure and tension regarding sex in your relationship. Nothing changed…..on your timeline so you started pressuring again. Nothing changed, including you, because your change was based on her behavior. Real change isn’t based on someone else. It’s about you making the decision that you aren’t going to be that guy anymore. Sex is a two person, two consent activity. One ‘no’ means sex doesn’t happen. Why doesn’t she share your interest in sex? There could be a lot of reasons but it sounds like you’ve co-created an environment that isn’t conducive to her sexual interest. Pressure, tension, pushing for sex whenever you get a bit of affection are all turn offs. No one wants to feel like sex is a duty, chore or obligation. When they do, they put it off, dread doing it, distract and disengage themselves when it’s happening, and are happy when it’s over.

    >What I’m asking is for her to be open to the idea that she could reach the point where she may want to do more. As stated before she is afraid I’ll be upset if she doesn’t want to have sex when this happens. For the record – yes I have gotten sad when this happens because if not in that moment, then when?

    This isn’t going to work with someone who feels like she can’t kiss you and hold your hand without you pushing for sex. It’s not going to happen with someone who doesn’t take ‘no’ for an answer very well.

    Cap’s Rule of Engagement:

    Trust is paramount. “No” means “no”; at any point in the encounter. No hard feelings or frustration. “No” is the end of initiating or discussing sex for the night. “No” does not require an explanation. It’s not a point of negotiation.

    Enthusiastic consent is king. Nonsexual affection is not a precursor to sex and does not lead to expectations for sex. Kissing may lead to sex HOWEVER, we read each other’s body language. Part of the sexual experience is that we tune into eachother. Listen for changes in breathing, sounds, sense the mood. If the nonverbal cues are unclear, ask “Is this ok?”, “Are you interested?” “Wanna fool around?” “Are you with me?” Nothing penetrates any *body* until that body is ready and aroused. Just as you wouldn’t put a flaccid penis into a vagina, you don’t put fingers or an erect penis in a dry vagina.

    Safety is important. Women are typically at a physical disadvantage regarding sex. Realistically, a man can physically overpower a woman and force his way inside her and there isn’t much she can do about it. It’s paramount that men do not advance on their female partners until they are ready to be penetrated. Also, the bedroom is no place for criticism, put downs, or put downs disguised as jokes. (you absolutely can ask your partner to touch you differently without criticizing)

    Sex is not given, it’s a shared experience. At a minimum, touch your partner the way they like to be touched. Use a ‘giving’ touch, not a ‘greedy touch’; the primary goal of touching your partner during sex should be to bring them pleasure. Your touch should feel good to them. If it doesn’t, you need to change what you’re doing. They don’t need to change how they feel and allow you to touch them in a way you like but they don’t like.

    Priorities are as follows: Your partner’s autonomy is more important than your desire for sex. It’s their body and they have the final say over what they do with it. Marriage does not mean you’re entitled to your spouses body. It belongs to them. You’re hoping they let you visit on a regular basis. It’s like dating; you want your partner to want to sleep with you. Make sure the sex you’re having is good for them.

    We do not participate in duty sex or having sex ‘for’ our partner. We only have sex when both of us want to have sex. Quality is more important than quantity. That’s always been true whether we’re having sex twice a week or twice in 6 months.

  3. Rules of engagement? Are you going to war?

    You said that you wanted to have a discussion about why she doesn’t want to have sex, but it seems you never got an answer. “99% of the time she doesn’t want to have sex and it makes her feel bad” doesn’t mean anything at all without an explanation WHY. The first step in any problem solving endeavor is to first identify the right problem, and for you the problem is being given a truthful answer WHY.

    Until you get to the reason WHY, nothing is ever going to change. Your wife is simply not being honest with you, and honesty and trust is crucial to the success go your marriage.

    I would demand, not ask or suggest, that you see a marriage counselor together. I don’t really see your marriage surviving without it.

  4. If you want sex you initiate and if the other person responds positively you have sex. If they dont you dont. No hard feelings. That is how sex occurs between 2 willing people. That means you do have sex on the lower libido partner schedules because when they initiate the higher libido partner is more likely to say yes. If you are up for it 25 days a month and they are up for it 3 then 3 is the most times you will have 2 willing partners.

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