My apologies for any confusion, I’m hurt and exhausted and it’s making it hard to think straight. I don’t even know if I’m in the right here
My wife (32F) is very close to her best friend (31F) since grade school. Without getting too much into it, my wife has had an extremely emotionally manipulative childhood since coming to the US from the Philippines at 10yrs old. She made friends with this woman around middle school and their family has essentially adopted her as a daughter at this point.
Well, it’s been a tough time going for this family. The father (60M) has been forced to leave retirement due to a major business loss that has been devastating. The daughter has had some serious personal issues as well that I can’t get into. Either way, it’s been a rough few months.
My wife and I are both high earners but she’s on a whole different level ($150k/yr for me vs ~$300k/yr for her). She had the idea to bring the entire family on an all-expense paid vacation to Niagara Falls; the fathers favorite place to visit in the world. I was 100% supportive of the decision, I knew she could handle the finances perfectly fine herself but I also offered to pitch in what I could and took the time off of work.
Unfortunately, the trip needed to be rescheduled due to a very unfortunate thing that happened to her friend. I was ok with the change, but the new date would make it difficult to completely take off work. I told her I may need to work during my time there, knowing that this trip was more for the family’s sake anyway.
Well the time comes and we’re all finally in Niagara Falls. Everything seems to be going well, until I mention to the group that I need to head back to the hotel and take care of some work. My wife is furious, but she doesn’t tell me until later that night. She said she thought I was taking all the time off, and I said that I told her I needed to work a bit because this was an unexpected last minute change of schedule.
It turned into a “I told you this”/“no, you told me this” for a little while and things were a bit heated and we went to bed angry. We wake up still upset with each other but I didn’t want it to ruin the day so I put on a happy face for the group; while still being a bit distant with my wife (and vice versa).
Then, it turns out my wife needed to take time later that day to lead a meeting that was going to take 4hrs. In private I told her it was not fair to be upset with me for working the day before if she was doing it as well. She said “it’s a very important department meeting that I need to be present for, Im the boss and need to lead by example”. I get very upset at this, saying that my work is just as important to me and you’re holding conflicting standards.
Tensions rise, me being distant with her earlier that day didn’t help either. I decide to leave the room and cool off. She mutters under her breath “I hate you sometimes” as I leave the room. I turn back and say “what did you say? Say it to my face” and she says “I hate you”.
I ask her if she would like a divorce, she says “yes” than says “see, you’re saying it this time” (she has weaponized the threat of divorce in past heated exchanges, this is the first time I brought it up).
I walk off, looking immediately to find another hotel in the area. I was so hurt, she was so direct and I feel like I’ve tried so hard to contribute to all of this. I know she literally did the planning and organizing, my tangible contribution was only a fraction of hers. But I made the time and effort and offered my help wherever I could assist.
On my way out, I run into the friend and her husband (34M). I try to keep my cool, but my face starts to crack and when she asks me what’s wrong I say “well, my wife just told me she hates me to my face, so I think I’m going to take a little walk”. I apologize for the drama, and leave the building.
I found a hotel room and didn’t attend the rest of the events planned for that day. My wife calls a few hours later, asks where I am and that I should go to the airport and leave.
After reading some other posts on this sub, I feel this is all so petty and frivolous. But, at the same time I feel so emotionally hurt that I can’t help but respond.
**TLDR: I had to work on a family vacation and my wife got mad. She had to work the next day, and I got upset at the hypocrisy. We had a fight, she said “I hate you”, I asked if she wanted a divorce and she said “yes”. Very upset and confused**
EDIT: We’ve been together for around 11 years (4 married). We own a house and 3 dogs, no children.
**EDIT**: There is unfortunately so much context I’m leaving out here. I’ll repost a comment I made below. I really do appreciate the advice, but to those who say there isn’t love; we’ve been together 11 years, or course I love her.
There are no money troubles. Whoever said money doesn’t buy happiness was right; but it sure as hell lowers a persons’ stress. We live quite comfortably, even though we both work demanding jobs. I encourage my wife to make the most of our resources to do things she never would have had the chance to before. Example? She’s seen 4 Taylor Swift shows (front row) and has plans to go to another 6 in Europe (front row). I know this sounds like bragging, but understand we both come from low/low-middle class families (think Malcom in the Middle for me, much worse for my wife). She has full control of both our finances, I trusted her to do what was best for us both. I want her to be happy, I still do care for her.
Unfortunately she also suffers from severe BPD, abandonment and has had several suicide attempts. She’s also fucking incredible, her single-minded determination is the kind CEOs of Fortune 500 companies dream of. When she’s great she’s great, but when she’s bad she’s…bad.
This is the first time she’s been so directly hurtful towards me. I know she cares about me, we fight a lot but it’s never been the kind of stuff that cuts to the core, we makeup rather quickly. I’ve learned to be extremely patient and understanding in our 11 years, knowing a lot of this doesn’t stem from hate towards me
But now? I don’t know, I just feel like I can’t hack it anymore. This is a first
38 comments
You don’t have children. Why not move on? Sounds like you’re both pretty mean to one another.
No children, give her the divorce she wants. You may also want to hire a private investigator if you live in an at fault state.
Divorce should never be a weapon. It’s time to end it. She is either committed or not.
Why can’t you both leave? It’s a free vacation for them and they are adults.
Not enough to go off as you said she’s weaponized divorce in the past. From reading this, it sounds like there’s a lot more underlying issues here and it all came to a head on this trip.
Also, with 2 people making a combined total of almost half a million dollars, it sounds like there’s some money issues between you two? Her making more seems to be a point of contention.
Lastly, Niagara falls shouldn’t be anyone’s favorite place in the world. 😉
I was thinking this could be talked thru until you said she weapnizing divorce. I think it speaks all that she told you to go home. Take the time at home to call the best divorce attorneys to know where you stand. When you wife comes home, offer her counseling or divorce. If she refuses counseling, give her the divorce papers. If she can’t see the seriousness and swallow her pride, you will be happier with a new relationship in the long run. Sorry.
OK I’m not gonna read anything beyond the statement. If she told you that she hates you, believe her, it’s probably the truth people do not say things like that they don’t mean it. So I wouldn’t delve into it any further, and it’s time to break up nobody wants to be with somebody who tells them that they’re hated.
She doesn’t see u as an equal partner and seems she really held that over your head this time. I always recommend therapy. Marriage is hard but so is divorce.
You have two places you can go. An attorney, or a marriage therapist. You’ll know when she gets back which one you want.
In either case, you should find a therapist for yourself as this is a pretty big deal.
The thing that really concerns me about this story is that it blew up over some minor office meetings. Of all the penny ante stuff to blow up about, this is just bizarre. It should be easy for one of you to duck out and do your work or meetings, while the other covers and then you can join back up again. It would be one thing if it were a pre-planned day trip and you bailed just as everyone was leaving, but even then it’s work, and the people benefiting from the trip are the friends, anyway.
Also, threatening divorce should never be a go-to argument for two married people unless they really mean it. The fact that it has been threatened multiple times already means that people are being immature and the marriage is on really shaky ground already. Two people who really love each other don’t make this tactic/threat a habitual part of their dialogue.
I wouldn’t even try for counseling. You didn’t mention one positive thing in your marriage or about her. Get a lawyer and be ready. You are 31 and have plenty of time to find a more suitable partner and start a family (if you want).
Ahhhhh BPD. There it is. It will never get better. She will destroy you.
If you want a good life I would recommend gaining control of your finances immediately in secret and plan an exit strategy. Do not let her see you are taking any tangible steps to leave or she will her you emotionally or physically.
Without anything else to go off of, it seems like she is used to getting her way or dictating how things are going to go at work and has now developed an expectation of that in your marriage.
When you both have calmed down, suggest couples counseling.
I’d still be too pissed about the work hypocrisy to worry about the divorce bombshell.
Toxic relationship. It’s time to call it quits and divorce op. It’s only going to get worse.
I’d take her at her word till she says differently. Go home. Get your affairs in order. She needs to see how serious this is.
Hey man, your story resonates with what I have experienced. I’m divorced now but my ex threatened divorce a few times and eventually I got tired of a lot of her bullshit and initiated divorce myself. My ex like your wife struggled a lot with her mental health and had gone through a lot as a child. For that reason I was always patient and I let a lot of things go that were unacceptable. Your wife telling you she hates you and then telling you to get on a plane and leaving is extremely disrespectful. Even though she has only done this once, it by far a normal thing to say to someone you love. I am not telling you to divorce but don’t let your wife use her past to give her the right to act disrespectfully toward you. I wish you the best!
>She mutters under her breath “I hate you sometimes” as I leave the room. I turn back and say “what did you say? Say it to my face” and she says “I hate you”.
If she can say that she hates you this easily, she doesn’t really care about you.
>she has weaponized the threat of divorce in past heated exchanges
There’s no healthy relationship where this kind of thing takes place. If she’s strong-arming you into submission through the threat of divorce, she doesn’t care about you.
>she also suffers from severe BPD
My man, what are you doing? BPD is a nasty illness and, even when treated, it rears its ugly head from time to time. And from your story, it’s not being treated. Check r/BPDlovedones to have an idea.
Right now you should be getting back home and setting consultations with lawyers. Ask them about what to do with finances, since you said she’s in control, and follow whatever they tell you to a tee. Get some therapy for yourself – you’ll mourn the end of the relationship and process the abuse. And go through the divorce no matter what – even if you still love her, wait until she has been in treatment for a few years before even considering having her in your life in any capacity. And don’t have sex with her – you don’t need to bring kids into this mess.
Holy shot who has a tldr
If my wife told me on holidays that she hates me and that she wants to divorce (and not for the first time) and also has BPD… then yeah I think you should be consulting with both a marriage counsellor and a divorce lawyer.
It doesn’t sound like you have kids, so hopefully it would just be a division of assets and finding somewhere new to live.
But the question is what do you want? what do you want from your wife to mend this situation, because I do not believe you are in the wrong.
If you take that to your wife, when you sit down to talk and it turns into a blame game or some protracted negotiation then yeah its done.
Philippino eh? Asians can have a hot temper and it get worse depending on how angry they are. My wife and I do have fights that can last a week but in the end we compromise and work it out. One time, the fight was over something stupid. Me coming home late for 6 months from work. I had a major project (planning, preping, preparing and launching a new site for my work). Being the only person in my department, it take a lot to plan a 3 story building for IT equipment and implementation. about the 4th day Saturday, we were in the car driving to her sister’s house for some event and she starts to lay into me again. I told her if she can’t put this issue aside I’ll just drop them off and uber back home. Her next words were then we should get a divorce. To her surprise I said OK. Pulled over, handed her the keys and told her to enjoy her night and I will have all of her stuff pack and ready for her to move to her parent’s house.
That lasted all of 5 minutes when she chased after me apologizing for her snappy words. The only thing I had to say to her was If you ever make that threat again, I will file the paperwork, you will be getting a job and you will be paying half of all our bills until the house sells. To this day, she will never use the word divorce as a weapon against me. it’s been 8 years now.
Never allow threats of action as a way to get back at you. It is hurtful and can be traumatizing. When it happens you need to shut it down or make that action come true.
She said she hates you and wants a divorce. Believe her and give her what she wants. This is not a small thing you’re blowing up out of nowhere. You need control of your finances again. She’s financially abusing you if she didn’t e let you have full access.
Omg! She has control of your money? Are you fucking nuts? Get that back now!!!
not the point, but as a former marriage counselor, Niagara Falls seems to be the hub of so many marriages ending. what a strangely cursed place for relationships
Dude, this made me tear up for you. I’m so sorry this happened, of course your feelings are hurt. She’s supposed to be your partner and love you and a small fight turned into her telling you to leave/divorce? Please take care of yourself ❤️
>Unfortunately she also suffers from severe BPD
Ohhh there it is.
I could not stay with mine. If you want to stay with yours, after 11 years you know it will be much the same as all this. You know it won’t get better. You know it will just be you coming up with new ways to bend to her whims. I spent 6-7 years (thankfully NOT married) to my person with BPD and I would not ever consider doing it again.
Dude she has BPD. I had (have) BPD. Our emotions can go from elated to suicidal, loving to hateful. It’s a roller coaster. Don’t pay too much attention to words said in the heat of anger. She initially said ‘I hate you SOMETIMES’ which only went to I hate you in the heat of anger.
However, are there wider issues festering here? Does she show you a lack of respect because she earns more / feels she has to do everything in the relationship? You mentioned she runs the finances / arranged the weekend away – does she insist on doing everything because she doesn’t trust you to do it? Essentially is she your mum more than your wife? I am in a relationship with this power dynamic and it can be corrosive. Can you step up and do more in the relationship?
You took time out to go on a vacation for HER and HER FAMILY. She has no right to treat you this way it’s out of order. She’s not right saying you can’t work while she can. Perhaps you should leave and give her time to cool down? Absence makes the heart grow fonder..
She’s doing cartwheels for these people who, at the end of the day are not her family, but treats you like crap. Yeah, I would be hurt too. It’s very manipulative and immature to always go to divorce as a solution or threat. I understand that this is learned behavior from her upbringing, but it’s simply not cool and very disrespectful. You’ve graciously gotten on board for her friends and don’t seem to be begrudging them anything, she should be grateful and knock it off.
Gas lighting is the womans choice of weapon. I don’t care if she has a history, it’s not now nor has it ever been your job to fix her. It’s her job to fix her. Has she done anything to better herself because of history?
Tell her, “I can’t take this rollercoaster, double standard gas lighting rollercoaster marriage. I want to start counseling and fix this but I don’t want to continue on doing what we’re doing now. Are you in or are you out?”
I was married 16 years and I…. just like you made up excuses for bad behavior because I loved her. That’s called simping. It’s time you pull in her reigns and be the man of house.
I commend u. U lasted much much longer with a person with bpd than Ive been able to.. which was just trying to be friends, maybe more for a month. I find it maddening, the hot/cold. Good luck
If your wife has BPD, it will wreck marriages unless there is individual and couples counseling to manage the anxious and aggressive attachment issues that can often be a symptom. It does add context to the whole issue.
Your wife is wrong in her behavior. It’s understandable, but it’s up to you if it’s excusable.
ESH,I refuse to believe that attending a work thing causes your wife to ask for a divorce.
Maybe there were a few underlying issues in the relationship you were not aware of or maybe you ignored them.
Either way talk to your wife and ask her.
INFO: is she working on her BPD? i ask this because unregulated BPD is a relationship killer 9 times out of 10. does she have coping or self management strategies for when things get bad?
and just for a bit of perspective, one of my close friends growing up also has BPD and it was also due to a traumatic upbringing and in his case, also abuse of too many varieties. all that to say that threatening divorce or break up is very very common for those that suffer from these types of severe abandonment issues, doubly so if they were raised to think love or support was conditional based on who they were or what they provided for their loved ones.
none of that is to say that what she’s doing is okay at all, but part of being in a relationship with someone who suffers from severe mental illness is recognizing that they see the world differently and as such will react differently too.
however, you can’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm, and allowing yourself to be treated this way isn’t fair to you so you have to decide where your boundaries are to be drawn and how far you’re willing to go to keep this relationship going.
Get a good lawyer OP.
She sounds like an awful nasty person. Divorce and be happy.
This woman is a walking red flag. Hypocritical when it comes to you guys’ work places (doesn’t seem to take yours seriously since you’re “not the boss” so she thinks it’s not important??), hurts your feelings with no remorse by telling you she hates you, and having brought up divorce again and again in the past. I think you can do better than this
Uh my dude, she’s spending a shit load on Taylor swift tickets. Front row tickets start at like 15-20k, that’s from the primary seller you gotta pay more if you don’t get them when they sell out…
She’s spending basically her yearly salary on that. Even if you’re in a no state income tax state her take home is what 211k.
We’re not even talking hotel and airfare.
BPD. She won’t change. She loves you though. Leaving her will be hard. Mostly because she won’t let you go easy, she’ll make you suffer.
I stopped reading when you said you made 450k and went to NIAGARA FALLS. I live in Rochester. Why the fuck
Hmm if you want to save your marriage, I suggest a book for your wife—complex ptsd by Pete walker.
She sounds like me…when I get mad I hit a level and there is no rationality and it sucks. I feel like a victim and it sounds like she may feel that way even when it’s not true. She has to do this herself and make it a priorty. It’s no one else’s responsibility to deal w her abuse other than herself. You can help, maybe a codependent class or something, boundaries are okay in a relationship. We don’t talk ab divorce anymore. Used to, and how does that help if you are committed? It makes you feel unsafe and unstable. Love is two people who refuse to give up on each other, but don’t tolerate abuse. That’s not okay, I hope things work out how they best should for you. Marriage counseling yes, but individual for her for sure. When we don’t deal with it it comes out in unhealthy ways…