As a women whenever I’m writing a man I usually base in on a man that I know. But it got me curious are there any parts of the male psyche that women often don’t pick up on?

25 comments

  3. I think it depends on the context you’re writing in, but as a general rule writing men based on men you know is completely fine as we don’t have a hive mind.

  4. I always say it this: A lot of actions and no drive. I would like to see women write Men with a lot more depth than this. Matt cooked dinner. Matt talked to his friends. But what is Matt thinking about? How come no man is written with doubts or anxiety? I need thoughts, effects and consequences.

  5. All the things going on inside our heads, all calculations we make on where to place ourselves, in a room or on approach or at the urinal or whatever.

    With the amount of calculations we constantly make, we don’t really have time for emotional bull shit, like most women have… or so you would think.

    I can’t speak for everyone, but there is quite a lot of “emotional bull shit” going on in my head, not that anyone would know as it is all muted..

    __Of track, going in to Culture differences__

    It is kind of interesting, as a Scandinavian (even with my very un-Scandinavian temperament), I can sometimes feel a bit uneasy around Southern Europeans with their very expressive temperament, but I can only imagine how frightening we Scandinavians must be for them, as they don’t see us getting progressively angry, to them we just go to full rage without any warning.

  6. I think most things that most identifiable motivations can suit men and women characters, and honestly in some circles you get points for writing male characters who aren’t conventionally masculine

    But I feel I can’t give good advice unless there’s a specific thing you were uncertain about

  7. *”What are your tips for writing men?”*

    1. Know some men.

    2. Talk to men.

    3. Be in a relationship with men either platonic or romantic.

    4. Talk to male family members and friends.

    5. Talk to male writers.

  8. >As a women whenever I’m writing a man I usually base in on a man that I know.

    When you say a man you “know”, to what degree do you actually *know* them? Is it just their outward personality? How they relate to you specifically? The way they speak/text/joke? Do you know what kinds of fears, insecurities, aspirations or motivations they have? Etc etc.

    I ask all that, not because what you said is wrong, but because you might not have quite as full a picture of the men you “know” as you think you do.

    If you want to get a better idea of how men act in general, be more specific. Go to a bunch of men you know with a male character and a scenario in your story and ask them what they would do/think/feel as that character in that situation. Keep doing that a bunch of times with different scenarios and you might spot a pattern with how they think.

    >But it got me curious there any parts of the male psyche that women often don’t pick up on?

    Well, generalities are generalities (and disclaimer: women may feel similarly about some of these, but I’m talking about men here) but generally speaking:

    • men derive a lot of self worth and meaning from being able to do, provide or function in some capacity for others. Being helpful, being capable, feeling needed, these are things that most men can probably relate to being or wanting to be. Caveat to this – though this really goes for anyone – is that if their efforts aren’t appreciated by the people around them/the people they care for, you’ll very quickly find a man very unwilling to continue. “Men go where they’re wanted”, so to speak.

    • men tend to have issues that aren’t dealt with by simply talking the emotions out and navigating things that way. This actually happens to be a great failing in therapy/psychology because practitioners try to treat male depression the same way they would that of women, by talking. A lot of the issues men have are actually structural/environmental, basically **material** things that are solved through action, but are pathologised often as emotional issues that can be dealt with if they were lent an ear.

    This might be why it’s reflected in the way men approach their and women’s problems. You’ve probably heard all about women getting frustrated with their men giving them solutions to their issues when all they wanted was someone to vent to. When men have problems, sure they’ll dwell on it for some time, but they tend to want to actually fix the issue that’s causing them grief, because then there’s no more grief. Rationality vs emotionality.

    Or maybe they’re not related and it’s just a coincidence. Either way, something worth noting.

    • this one is a bit of a mish-mash of thoughts that I’ll try and keep somewhat coherent, but it’s to do with socialisation. Generally, women are not socially adept than men are, they socialise a lot sooner and a lot more. Women are also a lot better at subtlety, both giving and picking up on subtle social cues, mainly as an evolved safety/survival mechanism.

    Men do not pick up on subtlety that well in general, which you probably already know. But I’ll elaborate. The kinds of men who develop the social savviness to pick up such hints are generally socialised among girls and women growing up (sisters, aunts, mother, female friends, etc) or had a lot of confidence which enabled them to socialise with girls and women growing up.

    Other men, not so much. You’ll probably hear about men growing up and realising at some point that women “are just people”, because they spent all their youth socialising separately from them, unable to conceptualise them as anything outside of an object of desire, or just some foreiign, mysterious species. Boys grow up consuming media and ideas about how to “get girls”, rather than simply exist alongside them as they do with other boys, then internalise that messaging, leading to the aforementioned “othering” of girls and women.

    And then on an entirely dfferent spectrum, boys also grow up with media, ideas and experiences about how men have been evil to women throughout history and that women are oppressed by/afraid of/constantly being attacked by men, then internalise that messaging, leading them to second guessing every interaction they have with women, (over)correcting their behaviour around women – even when not warranted, becoming incredibly self-aware of how they present, or just avoiding them entirely, etc. It can either feel isolating or infantilising to women.

    For my own part here, I grew up pretty damn quickly. I was 6’1″ at age 11. Around about that time, I started noticing the eyes of women with what looked like fear and it wasn’t something I actually realised until I was in therapy last year. All I knew at the time was that I felt bad about it and have been acutely aware of how physically imposing I can be. I was an awkward kid and grew into a slightly less awkward adult.

    Either way, a man socialising among men naturally has a different dynamic to a man socialising with women (obviously). But there’s some insight into *why* that might be the case for a man.

    Yea, that was not coherent at all lmao.

    Hope *any* of that helped.

  9. The fear of being deemed violent.

    Especially in an era of mass shootings and things like that always in the news.

    Just because your emotions might get the best of you, does not make you a bad or violent person.

  10. Women universally write men based on how women perceive the experience of being a man, which is almost always based on successful men. For example, women usually don’t understand men have to earn *everything* they get in life, and keeping what they earn requires constant focus and hard work. Men don’t get things given to them just because they’re men. In the context of character development for writing, women commonly botch the motivations of their male characters.

    If you want to understand men, start learning about the men who are *not* successful, whether that be professionally, romantically, socially, emotionally, etc. That will give you far more insight to how to write men.

  11. The biggest mistakes I’ve seen from women writing men are 1) no sense of a higher mission, and 2) no interior life.

  12. In general, I think the amount of internal dialogue is skimped on and the actual amount of words said is exaggerated and often phrased in a way that is unlikely to come out of most men.

    The amount of cost/benefit analysis done by men, in our heads, is downplayed. The assuredness is too often displayed at both extremes – especially way too certain.

    How he acts in different groups (family, guy friends, co-workers, in public) is too often portrayed as too similar. There are many “masks” a guy has. He is going to say and do different things in different environments. Also, odds are good there are things he will try to never say or show to anyone, ever.

    As far as displaying the average and below average young men in the dating world, the amount of anxiety and failure from their perspective can’t be downplayed. Even when things appear to be going well it doesn’t take much to fuck that up – or at least that fear is a very real concern.

  13. We don’t really get “icks” the same way that women do. We’re not constantly subconsciously filtering prospective partners for any potential warning signs that they might have flawe.

  14. Take what a woman would do, but add to it reason, accountability, and consequences he will have to deal with.

  15. Even if we are civilized, we want to f***, we want to fight. Or at least think about fighting. God help me, the toothless fight scene in the *Barbie* movie got to me. Friggin Ken dolls that couldn’t hurt each other having a “war” on the beach. . . And I was like “hell yeah this movie is getting good.”

    Ryan Gosling as patriarchal Ken looked like what men think is hot. My wife was repulsed and I thought “Gosling has never looked better.”

    And we are simple creatures. Even philosophical men are simple. If you take “examine the universe” as an activity, a man will want to do basic man stuff and in his down time think about the big stuff. *Functionally* it makes no difference.

    Many women love the thought of peeling the onion. Rest assured it is dude all the way down. There are practical social masks to wear, sure, but many women are grossly disappointed to find a man who takes off the mask. Underneath it’s just more of the same, only slightly less confident.

    Edit: oh and we might love one woman, or maybe a couple, but that doesn’t mean we don’t want to plow every hot woman there is. I don’t cheat but if I could have my cake and eat it too, damn would I ever.

  16. I haven’t written for a long time but always struggled to write women. Kind of got around this writing my dissertation by not really having women in it… which isn’t exactly great.

    I think many (22) years later, if I start hammering verse on the keyboard again I wouldn’t write huge differences between the two to be honest. We all run the gamut on the deeper stuff: concerns, thoughts and existential issues.

    If you’re thinking just dialogue, there are bigger impacts on that than gender. Upbringing, region, state of mind, interests, situation, world view, temperament (probably the biggest one) etc… Take the baseline of who the person is for the first draft and write based on that. Then see if the dialogue rings true to men when getting feedback.

    Edit: Just been having a ruminate and the above is a bit broad and perhaps not as helpful as it could be.

    A good way to think on difference is to write a practice scene. One with a woman running late for work and one with a man. It can help with similarities and difference.

    There will be similar things, brushing teeth, maybe a morning shower if the character doesn’t shower in the evening. Both could skip or insist on making themselves breakfast. Both can be calm or panic. Showers can take longer for women vs men, if a man has short hair and a woman has long hair.

    However typically women will feel they need to consider whether to put make up on, spend more time on hair etc… And a clean shaven man may feel compelled to shave. However socially, men can get away without shaving easier than a woman can without putting make up on. Also, socially it’s more acceptable for people commenting on the man’s 5 o’clock shadow than it would be to comment on a woman’s lack of makeup.

    Also, if the commute is walkable (ie: 2km) a man is already wearing flat shoes so may just walk it. A woman may consider whether she wears heels or flats. Heels might be a taxi or wait for the next train… and when is that coming? Does she care about heels or flats, does it matter to her?

    So already there’s a diversion in experience between men and women on being late for work that could impact and inform future scenes.

  17. It’s one of those “I can tell it when I see it” things. I’m not even close to being smart enough to articulate broad principles about masculinity, but if an author put a character in front of me and walked me through how he’d handle a scenario, I’d probably have a few gripes.

  18. From what I have seen, women write men that think like women.

    Katherine Kerr did a great job of portraying men that acted like men. Fantasy fiction, but great stories.

    Find a guy that isn’t that into you and pick his brain. He is more likely to be honest instead of nice.

    Wife got a book called The Villian’s Assistant. It’s pseudo romance. The guy….the villian….he doesn’t think like a guy. At all. The author never met a guy who has some true darkness to him. It’s obvious.

    Writing men is going to be an alien point of view. Try watching Sarah Dawn Moore or The Dadvocate on YT. Sarah is scary as hell. She knows too much.

  19. Study the engkish language.

    Find websites as reference tools.

    Know the meaning of the big words or rare words you use before you use them.

    Check over your work. For anything spell check missed

    If you’re trying to have other people read it, know your “market”

    Have thick skin

  21. Women seem to think men have life easy. They we all back each other instantly and never doubt another man. All three of those patently false.

    There’s a good book written by Norah Vincent, called Self Made Man. She used makeup and acting lessons to pass as a man for 18 months. At least the guys just thought she was a gay man. She got to experience life as a man would. It left her with permanent mental scars.

    But she went into it as a feminist lesbian who believed the tropes above. She quickly learned that she was wrong and admits as much. But she came away with a better understanding of how men live. How they are treated by women and how they treat each other. Perhaps reading her book will help you. She was a damn hero for what she did. Too bad left a horrible mark on her.

  22. What you’re doing is generally the best way to do it I think, I feel over focusing on the psyche of genders gets really weird and dumb fast. Honestly I think the only things I’d caution about is that I have seen *some* women think they have some sort of weird empath shit where they just know what’s going on in every man’s head and what he’s experieced, to the point of just not believing men. Idk why people do that, regardless of demographic, but you don’t seem to have that problem.

    I think the only other thing is it might be good to, if you’re touching on men’s issues at all, to ask men how they feel on those topics, depending on what it is. Personally I find a lot of times things that men primarily experience or are common for men get sorta degendered a lot so that lense gets left out.

    Biggest thing though is just write people, being a man or woman or whatever else is always just an influencer, never the whole person

  23. Doesnt know how well yo uknow us we are absolute psychopaths in some kind of outlet. Like Video games, I am apparently a sweet guy, but sometimes in video games I am the most annoying and Tilting shithead possible on purpose.

  24. Simple, the simpler the better

    We also have an empty room in our minds where we’re completely present with no thoughts

    First instinct is to figure it out

    Emotional empathy is secondary / hidden

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