We’ve been living together for 8 months and we’ve had a lot of arguments about cleaning during this time. The general pattern of the arguments: he doesn’t like to be pressured or nagged, but I get upset when some things don’t get done around the house. He has been communicating about his preferred ways of me bringing up issues so he doesn’t feel nagged, but sometimes I do just that and he still feels attacked and gets defensive.
While I ask him to do his share of chores, mostly I have to remind him to just clean up after himself. He doesn’t leave a big mess, but rather a lot of small items everywhere that would take 1 second to put away. When that adds up, it makes me feel disrespected as if he expects me to pick it up after him like I’m his mom.
We are in couples therapy, and most of the sessions are focused on the therapist addressing my fiance’s reluctance to clean as opposed to me “nagging” or “attacking” (as my fiance thinks). He feels misunderstood and unfairly blamed bc he believes I have an attitude issue and don’t appreciate what he does.
I have been really trying to work on my attitude and be more patient with him. But what happens is, sometimes I ask for something respectfully and he still won’t always do what he’s asked. He might interrupt or get defensive and remind me of my mess. Or he might say he will do it but then forget for 2 days.
Recently our therapist suggested I stop asking him to clean. Instead, I would make a list of things that need to get done and just trust him to do that. I haven’t asked him to clean for more than a week. He really helped with some chores about once a week, but also left some areas not tidied up for several days. I tell him every day that I appreciate him when he does help.
He has previously mentioned he would be more responsive to me bringing up issues if I asked him “can I bring something up that’s bothering me? Is now a good time?”. He also prefers me doing it when we’re taking a walk or spending time together so he feels less attacked. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.
Today I brought up something after asking him if it’s okay first. I said: “I really need to express my feelings. Can you please listen to me and acknowledge without interrupting and getting defensive?” And he did just that, he got super defensive and blamed me for not understanding how hurt he is and said I’m being hypocritical as I have my own mess that needs to be cleaned. Said I have OCD and I need to get it checked. (I had asked him to put something away after using it. Instead, he packed it in a bag and left on the floor in the corner. He thinks I’m OCD because I actually wanted it to be *put away*) .Yes, he didn’t interrupt but his body language was super defensive – with his arms crossed and him constantly rolling his eyes.
I do understand that I asked him to do something while we had decided I wouldn’t do that, and I apologized. But I’m so tired of him getting defensive, and then denying being defensive, and twisting things constantly. Like, he said “It was rude of you to ask me to x, y, z because you weren’t specific enough”. (I asked “do you mind putting this away?” instead of “put in on THAT shelf”, I guess? I don’t even know). I said “Sounds like you wanted me to be more clear and specific, but how is that rude?”. He argued about this for a few minutes before finally admitting that yes, that wasn’t rude.
I feel gaslighted all the time. He feels gaslighted too. He feels like I’m focusing too much on his flaws instead of appreciating what he does.
I’m not sure how else we can handle this.
10 comments
Don’t marry him. So many women divorce men like this because this dynamic makes them feel like mothers instead of partners. Resentment builds over time and they eventually lose all attraction. If he can’t behave like an adult and carry his own weight now, that’s something that only gets worse once you have kids and/or have stressful life events. You’re in therapy so it’s probably best to tell the therapist it’s making you reconsider whether or not to move forward so he has an idea of how serious this is and has a chance to reverse course but it’s truly not something you want to force yourself to just deal with
Oh wow, that’s a lot. How do you feel now that’s all written out?
Household chores and standards can be very hard to work out. A lot of couples have trouble with it. In fact a whole card game and a book has been created in attempt to make it easier. May be worth trying. It’s called Fair Play.
What I find to be the root of it personally is that both sides often don’t feel validated and appreciated by their partner. Both sides don’t realize what their partner is actually doing and bringing to the table. There is also usually resentment built up between the two because of a lack of communication of needs. Usually it’s one side more then the other, in this case I feel your fiancé has some unspoken resentment built up more so then you. I could be wrong.
He doesn’t clean to your standards for two reasons, 1. you might not be communicating your wants and needs effectively, 2. because he isn’t motivated to. You seem to be working on communicating your standard, which is great, I know that’s not easy. But something may be holding back your partner’s motivation. Resentment can do that…but so would not agreeing with your standard.
I feel that you both could use more time in therapy and maybe try another therapist. I feel like an experienced therapist would of asked you to stop asking him sooner. In the interim try practicing validating each other more for what each brings to the table. Especially when he cleans, but also when he doesn’t, find things not cleaning related to validate too. He should validate you more too.
Also pick up the book fair play and play the card game. It may have some interesting results. It’s really good at showing how much is on each person’s plate and helping redistribute the weight of chores.
I think it would be really beneficial for you both to find your own personal life coach or therapist to help. Particularly I feel your partner could benefit a lot from a good mens group or a strong masculine role model/coach.
Some couples just don’t work out and I think you are one of them.
Stop doing his laundry. It’s something that you won’t be affected by but he absolutely will.
When he asks why, say “oh sorry but I’m so busy cleaning up after you because you won’t do it that I don’t have time any more”.
You aren’t asking for much.
You want him to clean his own messes when he makes them, and put stuff away when he’s done using it.
This is something that a kindergartener learns to do.
Let me guess at a scenario. He fixes a PB&J sandwich, pulling out the peanut butter, jelly, bread, and a knife. He makes it on the countertop, leaving some crumbs and a sticky spot of jelly when he put the knife down.
Then, instead of putting the tops back on the jars and putting them away, closing the bread bag and putting it away, wiping up the crumbs and the jelly, and putting the knife in the dishwasher, he leaves everything out.
He picks up his sandwich, and goes back to his computer or sits in front of the TV. He puts the sandwich down between bites, leaving crumbs and jelly smears on the desk or end table.
He may have a fleeting thought that he’ll clean it up when he’s done eating, but that usually doesn’t happen.
And while he is absorbed in his game or his show and is eating the sandwich, you go into the kitchen to start fixing dinner, but first you have to clean up his mess.
All the friggin therapy and counseling and careful respectful requests aren’t working.
**He needs to put shit away as soon as he is done using it. He needs to wipe up messes immediately. This is very very simple, and he is smart enough to do it.**
But he is choosing not to, and acting like you are infringing on his human rights that you have this reasonable expectation. This is an asinine response and I advise you to stop being careful and courteous with him, when he is so rude and careless.
It’s very tempting to advise you to tell him, “Hey, put all that stuff away and wipe the counter before you eat, and use a damn plate, too.”
But he isn’t a kindergartener. He already knows.
Congratulations, you are having sex with a petulant put-upon child.
Either you lower your standards of clean or you don’t live together because this usually DOESN’T get better.
You tried his way, and it’s still not good enough. I’m sure he thinks what he’s doing now is your way and not good enough.
It’s not that hard to understand. He doesn’t want to put in the effort and he also doesn’t want you to talk to him about how he’s not putting in the effort.
This is something you will fight over for the rest of your life if you stay with him.
Your fiancé is a man-child. You shouldn’t have to nag him to clean. Your supposed to be his partner, not his mother.
He will probably not change. The only thing YOU can change is your mindset about his behavior. Are you okay with it? Then there is no complaining. If you are NOT okay with this, and you accept that you can’t change him and he probably won’t change, then you have to decide if this is a deal breaker. If you had been thinking about marriage, children, etc with him, you are seeing your future. You are seeing that this is how he will be, and he will model this behavior for any children. Then the children will learn how to treat you based on what he does.