Wife 40F of 2 years 46M (her 3rd marriage, my 2nd) wants/expects me to loan her the money or pay the legal bills her ex-husband is racking up as he attacks her through the court system. what is my obligation here?
Wife had a very loose parenting plan for years regarding her under 10yo son. she moved out of state to live with me and brought her son. her ex-husband loves his son, however, he is financially irresponsible and has made half a dozen questionable and poor choices. (ie. quit his job two years ago, with no effort to re-employ, lives in a 2-room shed that he halfway remodeled with his girlfriend and her two kids, refuses to pay for his sons expenses, child support or judgements from multiple lost frivolous motions.
She attempted to reconfigure the parenting plan. He has no interest in it and has instead deployed a hostile scorched earth strategy. They got a GAL recommended plan that states the boy lives with us during the school year and lives with him during the summer. The Ex is also under a 1 year restraining order for stalking. He legally represents himself, with 100+ page manifestos and is in general a bully, overcomplicating everything and hell bent on destroying her via the courts, emotionally and/or financially by exhausting her ability to pay in the hopes she gives up. Its really tough to see. To date she has spent $40k on legal fees in one year. She took an extra job, borrowed $30k from me and has paid me back $15k. Now – she needs an additional $20k to pay the legal retainer required for Trial.
she has no savings or credit available to continue this fight. Her P/T second job has ended. We split our monthly shared household/car expenses equally with all extra income or expenses being handled at the discretion of the earner/debt holder.
I walked into this marriage after a very expensive divorce from first wife, along with a massive monthly alimony. We have a prenup. I never asked for or received any financial assistance from her for my ex-spouse issues.
I have a 10mo Emergency Expenses Fund from which I’ve loaned her $15k and after paying off 3 years of alimony in one lump sum to my ex-spouse, my monthly cashflow has breathing room after shared expenses.
I have taken the position from day one that I will not take responsibility for any of her debt created with or by her ex-husband(s) – each of them are not good with money or responsibility. I do contribute above and beyond our mutually shared expenses when needed for things like medical bills, house repairs, travel or other budget overruns.
Now – she is coming to me asking for $20,000 in addition to the $15k I have loaned her. I am not comfortable loaning more than $20k toward this cause, which would be total cost of $35k fronted by me and I am not of the mindset that this should even be my financial responsibility. I said no. my maximum is $20k. her response to my no has been filled with hostility, disappointment, distance and attacks over an unstated expectation. “I’m drowning and you are throwing me a floatie toy”. She sees any money in an account as available money to spend on this. I don’t want to loan her the money – which would mean having her indebted to me for 4 years – along with emotions and resentment that I didn’t just gift it to her. I don’t think its right to expect me to pay for costs associated with one of her ex-husbands.
What is my obligation in this situation?
25 comments
Her lawyer can’t beat she’d living manifesto writing guy for that much money????? Dude that’s the worst lawyer ever
You’re not obligated to do anything. That money is ridiculous. Do not give her a cent. I’d get your own lawyer.
Was none of this discussed before you got married?
Get her to go to her state child support, which is usually separate from family court. If he’s not paying, they will garnish his wages. If he’s married and filing jointly with his wife, they will garnish her tax refund to pay for his back child support. It stinks, but there are no financial or legal repercussions for his frivolous law suits. It’s not worse than what he’s doing to her.
He’s already ruined the loose, friendly arrangement they had. Tell her to get serious.
You have no obligation.
Just make sure you never ask her for a favor or to give anything she isn’t inclined to. A generous relationship or a supportive relationship is off the table for you both.
Have your wife ask her attorney about a vexatious litigant statute in your state.
A plaintiff can be declared a vexatious litigant if the defendant shows that there is not a reasonable probability that the plaintiff will prevail in the litigation against the defendant.
A plaintiff who is declared a vexatious litigant will be required to furnish security such as a bond or cash deposit for the defendant’s reasonable expenses including costs and attorney’s fees. If they fail to provide the security their suit will be dismissed.
A court can also issue a Prefiling Order prohibiting the vexatious litigant from filing, pro se, any new lawsuits in that court without permission of the local administrative judge. A powerful tool to stop the abuse. A vexatious litigant who disobeys such a prefiling order may be punished for contempt of court.
For me, my decision would be based on if the dad is a safe person for your stepson to spend time with? Because you say he loves his kid, but he sounds batshit as well.
The headline was for me a bit misleading. This isn’t ex-husband’s legal debt. These are costs your wife is currently incurring.
They are being incurred so that there can be an enforceable restraining order and so that her kid, and your step kid, is raised in an appropriate setting.
Talk to an attorney about your legal obligations. But, honestly, I think you have a moral obligation here. In a sense, this is a like a medical issue that arises.
If your wife, at the time you got married, had a known condition that was thought to be easily managed. A pre existing condition. But the disease progresses and becomes both more difficult and more expensive to manage. Would you say no to supporting that? So, yea, when you married her you bought her luggage and she bought yours.
Practically, your choice is ultimately to support her legal costs or watch the relationship slowly crumble. If you drive her into total poverty, or force her to let her ex do bad things to her or her kid, you will pay a steep price. Now, if you think she is tilting at legal windmills that is one thing. But that isn’t how you describe it.
Is having ten months (vs say six) months in an emergency fund worth your relationship? Only you can make that judgment.
My answer really depends on what her lawyer says is the likely outcome & timeline for the case. If you’re not included in the legal stuff – get included. I would advise you focus on getting a final resolution over getting your pound of flesh.
When I first met my husband, his ex had just ruined him. He had no credit and more liabilities than assets. Fast forward a few years and we are newlyweds and his eldest daughter (17 at the time) had something bad happen that instigated a custody change. In about 2 years, I fronted him $45k for legal bills and also covered SD’s post-secondary tuition and heavy therapy. I was also intimately involved with both the criminal and family law cases.
We had setback after setback with ridiculously petty shenanigans from the ex, but we stayed the course, didn’t rise to her procedural monster bait and manoeuvred her into a final legal agreement. Fortunately I had more savings, more assets and more credit – just had to be tactical, and worst/best case could afford to wait the ex out.
It was a huge gamble, but I believed two things. One: my husband is worth it and my life is better with him in it despite his ex. And two: this time I was making damn sure that btch was DONE, dotting every i and crossing every t, I’d take her down and break us free no matter the cost.
Almost 10 years later and my husband is still paying me back. I’m “Mom” to my eldest stepdaughter. She’s getting married next year; I’m going to be the MOB. Youngest stepdaughter has graduated university and is backpacking Europe. Ex-wife stays in her lane and is still dysfunctional but completely irrelevant and impotent to us. My family is THRIVING. Worth it.
I read a very similar post recently in a
different sub from the wife’s perspective. I wonder if it’s your wife. I’ll have to try and find the post.
Your wife’s responsibilities are your responsibilities. Your responsibilities are hers. What would her obligation be if your child from a previous marriage was sick and needed expensive surgery. Or something else not covered by insurance. Would you expect her to help? Also, your finances are tied to each other now, so it doesn’t really matter
I mean, what I would hear if I was her is my husband, who I have consistently paid back for any loan, is refusing to help me keep my child safe.
That money is more important than my child.
Also, it’s not his debt. It’s her debt that she is incurring because he’s an ass hole.
You have already decided what is more important to you. Your marriage is over.
A new lawyer is recommended.
I have read enough of your replies. You sound like an unsupportive dick blaming her for this issue. Just go ahead and divorce her, it doesn’t sound like you care about her being emotionally cared for. This issue is weighing her down and you are not helping.
Speaking from experience, normally custody situation are done via hearings…if it goes to actual trial this will effect be the final decision, as it is unlikely that husband can afford to appeal a trial verdict nor can he tie it up like you can with hearings….so it is extremely important if indeed this is a trial and not custodial hearing, that she put forth her best effort. Truthfully after years of back and forth hearings with my son’s father, the trial finally ended it…it was a lifesaver but it did totally drain my finances…so you’re not wrong in placing a limitation on your money but I definitely understand your wife’s worry, stress and mental exhaustion
There are pro bono working institutions for financial abuse cases, maybe even for situations like this. You should sit down with her and give it a google.
Legally? Not a lawyer but I doubt there’s any legal obligation to help one’s spouse in their child custody battle. Morally/ethically? You married for better or worse, and now you are in the worse. Your marriage and the move are the catalyst for the ex’s spite court battle. So, in marrying you, this brought her to this point.
I think you need to decide if you are in it for real in marriage #2 or not. You need to be more supportive of her legal issues and also take note if the lawyer she’s using is actually doing there job. Do you care about your step son enough to help fight for him? Help her get a better lawyer who can quash some of these frivolous court cases or lure the ex into mediation. Or, you are probably looking at this marriage falling apart. If the thought of that fills you with resentment, this may not be a solid marriage and it may be better for her life and easier to divorce you and take her child back closer to the ex and rebuild her life there. Would that mean the toxic ex won? Sort of, he did break you down very quickly.
Post this in r legal advice and try to help your wife if you can
You’re not legally obligated to do anything
But what kind of man just watches his wife get relentlessly attacked and lets it happen?
You say forking money to a lawyer isn’t a good move? He’s representing himself; you represent her maybe I dunno. You two are in this together; that’s your wife and that’s your kid now
*Edit* grammar/spelling
Legally? Probably not.
Morally? Dude, this is your *wife*. You know, your partner? The one who uproooted her and her kid’s life to be with you? For richer or poorer? The person who’s back you’re supposed to have? What kind of man doesn’t stand beside and protect his wife and stepson?
Her legal issues started because she moved to be with you. You can choose to not support her in trying to protect her child from an obviously unstable ex, but you should be prepared for that decision to end your marriage. And in my opinion, she’d be completely justified in doing so – in moving, she made a decision to sacrifice and take a big risk for your best interests as a couple, and you’re showing her that you’re unwilling to do the same. At which point she has to focus on how to protect her son since you’re not willing to help do it.
Another way to put it: SHE does not have legal issues. YOUR FAMILY has a legal issue. Do you want validation from Reddit or do you want your family and marriage to survive?
I’m an attorney but likely not in your state. Anyway- This is what I’d advise to keep this guy at bay:
1. Go through the state child support enforcement system. Get that part out of family law so she’s not throwing money away on a private attorney trying to collect child support.
2. Ask her attorney about a gatekeeper order to prevent him from filing frivolous motions
I cannot believe a GAL recommended the kid live in a goddamned shed for a summer. It’s batshit. So is dad. I’m sorry your wife is going through this. You, of course, aren’t obligated to pay for it, but it sounds like she does not want to go through all this either.
You really have no obligation here to loan her the money. However, if you do not loan her the money and she cannot afford an attorney or even if she just can’t afford this attorney and she ends up losing custody then she may hold that against you and partially blame you. For instance she may say “if you would have just helped me then I would have had a good lawyer and I wouldn’t have lost custody.” Now the other thing to think about that in my mind is the most important is the 10 year old. From the way you have described the childs father it doesn’t sound like you think he should have custody of the 10 year old kid. If you do not loan her the money and she ultimately loses custody how would that make you feel? Would you feel guilty at all? Would you worry about if the child in this situation is safe and well taken care of? If I felt my step child was not safe at their other parents home and they were fighting to get custody then I would do everything possible to help ensure that the other parent did not receive custody. Up to and including loaning money for the lawyer.
She is your wife, and she is in a tough spot that is not of her making. Your emotional and ethical obligation is to help her. Legally of course you do not need to loan her anything. But do you even like your wife? Why did you get married if you just see her as dead weight?
If you aren’t going to support her through anything she’s going through, why’d you marry her?
My wife and I are both on our second marriage. My first wife put us through a brutal custody fight. My wife LOVES my kids and fought alongside me every step of the way. She even sold her condo and put all of the proceeds towards legal fees. We won. I literally owe her my life. She could walk out on me tomorrow and if she showed up on my doorstep five years from now asking for a favor, I’d do it, because I owe her that much–it wasn’t just the money, it was the never-ending and unshakeable support.
If that’s not what you and your wife are giving each other, why are you together?
Firstly, a child is not a debt.
Secondly, you gloss over and later ignore the initial $30k and how your wife paid the $15k back and now you want a cap of $20k.
Clearly your wife understands that you want your fucking money back and she has shown she will work to get it back but clearly you’ve never been invovled in a custody battle and you don’t give a shit about having a wife when the dust settles.
Divorce is ugly, sure, but those fights don’t mean shit when your child is at stake and you’ve made your position clear on that with her son.
Even though you have your prenup armor, do you want a 3rd divorce? If so, just keep doing what you’re doing. She’ll resent you forever.
You can replace money. You can never replace a bond with your child once it’s been destroyed by a malicious party at no fault of your own, I know.