In need of some advice from married men, please!

31 comments

1. Men in general aren’t talkers about things like this, and it doesn’t surprise me that counseling had an opposite effect. It’s common for men that go to couples counseling to feel ganged up on because women are far more effective at verbalising their emotions and thoughts, and that’s 90% of counseling, talking.

   However, when you say that anything remotely intimate made him unable to even speak, are you still talking about verbal intimacy, or even physical intimacy? Because the former seems normal from what you spoke about this guy, but the latter seems odd, considering how you stated that the sex was great, which is one of the biggest parts of intimacy.

   People from Europe are also definitely less outgoing that people from the US. I’m from the UK and it’s far different, the general population. People will look at you weird if you even look at them on the street if you don’t know them.

   I myself am someone who doesn’t express emotions much, and my wife is a very outgoing person, so we’re in similar situations. She also wishes I’d compliment her more, which I don’t, but not because I don’t think she doesn’t deserve it, it just never crossed my mind to do so in most cases and I have to work hard to make sure I don’t forget to.

   I don’t think anyone did anything wrong here, and the only thing I’d ask is if he was getting worse over time, because you shouldn’t get married to someone who isn’t someone that is right for you.

2. Not sure if this is what you’re referring to, but literally every single time I’ve become vulnerable with a women, no matter how much they have pleaded for me to open up, as soon as it happens the dynamic of the relationship completely changes and the relationship ends in short order.

   I will never completely open up to a woman again. It sucks but my success in relationships has been exponentially better when I do this. Some Women say one thing, but are often attracted to something different.

3. There is no broad true stereotype or singular male psyche. Just like you aren’t the same as every other woman.

4. Kind of makes sense to me. Finding you attractive enough to want a relationship with you is very much a feeling, and a strong one. A man who is very uncomfortable expressing his feelings or emotions would likely have trouble expressing the feeling that he finds you very attractive.

   So someone who finds you attractive but doesn’t want to express that would likely have an even more difficult time expressing deeper feelings or emotions.

5. Honestly, I think the vocabulary we use around these issues is where the problems occur. “Emotionally available” is a phrase with such a vague term and it’s been used in so many ways that people can interpret it however they wish.
   You had a guy who didn’t want to talk about his feelings. There are many reasons this could happen. But I believe him that he was this way from the moment you met him. Lots of men are happy and willing to share their feelings. But some aren’t. And if that’s a dealbreaker to you, I think you need to work on identifying that trait early on, not trying to understand the male psyche. But that’s just my two cents!

6. Honestly, it sounds like you are attracted to an emotionally unavailable man who is giving excuses for his lack of intimacy and understanding in a relationship.

   You probably did/do subconsciously pursue unavailability. You don’t have to answer these, but how was the relationship between your parents? Did you receive the love you deserved from one of them but not the other? Was one emotionally distant?

   Generally this can lead to situations like this, but this can also be a learned pattern in dating as well.

   I had/have (apparently 👎) the same issue, I was seeking validation by pursuing unavailability. If I could just date them then it would be proof that I am worthy, that I am deserving, and it would validate all the things I didn’t truly believe in myself. Essentially, for me it came from low self-esteem and wanting to have someone else find that for me.

   When we date someone who is unavailable, they show us pretty early on but we’re so enamored with validation in the beginning that we look past it with rose colored glasses.

   He was probably telling you the truth when it was shown he only feels connection during sex, which is sad for both parties.

   And his idea that only women are able to have these deep conversations is just him saying he cannot. He isn’t in tune with his emotions and is afraid to show it.

   He probably has in the past and because he was in a situation where someone pursued his unavailability and suddenly he’s overly available emotionally, it can also scare that other person into running. This could’ve been someone he was dating to something like a parent or guardian invalidating his emotions, often.

   Which is equally as sad.

   So, how do you move past this cycle of push/pull and going after the wrong people?

   You build up your self-esteem and confidence. You start making choices for you and decide pre-relationships what you like and don’t like. And you make decisions based on these things and not in the moment desires. Like maybe sex is great when meeting someone and you both are jumping each other like rabbits. But you notice when you bring up emotions that texts take a little longer to respond to, or that they aren’t putting effort into planning dates. You make the decision that you want someone who does these things and move on.

7. There’s a book called the Five Love Languages which talks about how couples “miss” each other’s messages. Both sides could be _saying_ I love you but neither one feeling it.

   Physical touch & closeness, acts of service, quality time, words of encouragement, and gift giving, IIRC. New couples, use all five, but gradually settle into their own personal favorites. You have to learn to speak each other’s language to keep communicating your love.

   And your story, though, there is certainly defensiveness on his part, it sounds like he was blaming you. If that’s normal with him, then don’t regret this and move on – men absolutely are capable of communicating and loving in other ways if they want to.

8. > and emotionally unavailable. While the relationship started out passionate, by the end, anything even remotely intimate would cause him to freeze up.

   How fast did that relationship go? IE how long did it take the dating phase, defining the relationship, moving in together and then getting married?

9. Look into attachment styles.

   Both to profile yourself and your ex.

   Statistically the majority of men are secure attachment style and not how your ex was.

10. The “male psyche” as he referred to it is definitely not universal. It’s just a stereotype/gender role. And maybe a way for someone to rationalize their choices, behaviors. There are plenty of men who like to share feelings. And there are plenty of women who don’t want to go deep, but withdraw from vulnerability (the thing that actually drives emotional connection).

    It sounds like the important thing would be to figure out why you are uncomfortable with “flattery” (maybe you mean emotional intensity/focus on you?) from someone in the beginning.

    I would also not confuse physical compliments and intense focus on the first couple dates with emotional intelligence. You already know those aren’t the same. Don’t let this guy cause you to doubt your instincts. But emotional conversations can be waaay more intimidating than comments about your looks. Does this new person care about your feelings? Do they ask about you? Do they have good will? And the question should never be “how awesome is my date”, but “how awesome is the connection?” Am I my best self with this person? Can we grow together? In what areas can we grow together? Are those areas of growth balanced? Meet my needs in a healthy way?

    Anyway, there’s a need being met by the indifference you describe. Maybe it initially seems to put less pressure on you? so you have the time you need to be comfortable to develop an attachment on your own terms?

    Good luck. And when someone tells you who they are (with words or actions) believe them the first time.

11. The fear of communication is understandable and common, but that doesn’t make it justified, in essence it is cowardly. But its a sensitive topic that should be handled with care and nuance, but him running away from difficult conversations is not right towards you and he is not justified in that.

    The biological thing is bullshit, he is just afraid

12. Men ‘in general’ don’t like talking about their emotions, relationship issues, etc. They just aren’t interested as we tend to be much more level regarding stuff like that. Personally I cringe if asked to express my feelings as I feel like ‘Should I really have any feelings about this particular thing that’s of no interest to me?’ I am a bit better with time though. But just remember men ‘in general’ don’t and can’t talk or think about stuff as deeply as women, have no interest or need to do so, and will be pushed away if made to.

    But overanalysing every man you meet will only lead you to ruin relationships. Don’t overthink it – if a man is into you at the beginning you will know that. He may not always be though!

13. > *He was this person when I met him, and perhaps I’m just attracted to unavailable guys, or have commitment issues*

    gaslighting, blaming the victim

    > *He shows his affection through sex (which had always been great) and gift-giving, which should have been enough*

    you need affection the way you need affection. if he can’t give you that, you’re better off without him.

    > *Women expect men to be more willing to have heavy conversations than they are biologically able to give*

    this is a bullshit copout, more gaslighting, and he needs to grow the fuck up.

    this guy shouldn’t be in a relationship, as he’s clearly unable to do it right. and he’s been married twice? fucker needs to figure out who he is.

14. Yes, you’re expecting him to be something he is not. Women don’t understand that men can be content and thinking about literally nothing. We’re just happy a lot of the time and there is nothing else going on in our heads. You’re insinstance on trying to understand what we are feeling or “what’s going on in there?” is borderline insane. “Why won’t you talk to me?” “Why can’t you just open up and tell me how you feel?” “We don’t communicate!”

    My wife still does this on rare occasions with myself and I’m not sure what it is or where it comes from but men really do not think about things all the time, especially things that make us feel certain ways. There’s nothing to communicate. We think about how things work or wonder how they work certain ways (nothings more boring to women) while women seem to think more about events and how these events unfolded and made them FEEL a certain way and why they feel that way and wonder how they made their partner feel (when they’ve never even thought about it). Men don’t obsess over these types of things and honestly it seems to drive women crazy.

15. I’m 35, married and an engineer as well.

    I can somewhat relate with him on showing affection via sex because that’s when I feel most passionate and close to my wife. I also feel quite close after being shacked up and cuddled up tight in bed. Physical touch is incredibly important to me even if it’s not sexual. But I’d bet my wife would disagree that that’s the only way I show affection because I also love to listen to her day and laugh with her over stupid stuff. We’re quite silly.

    I strongly disagree that men are biologically incapable of having deep and meaningful conversations with their significant other. Some men, as well as some women, may be cognitively challenged. It’s universally believed that women are more emotional than men but I feel like that’s just not true. Men think being a man means suppressing your emotions. That comment seems incredibly unloving, selfish, and just flat out lazy.

    I was raised on a ranch and I was expected to work and be a “man” at a young age. Man defined as work hard, don’t show your emotions, be tough. I’ve learned recently, and ironically through my dad, that being open with those we care about create moments of growth and healing. Being vulnerable creates newness in relationships. It builds trust quickly because the risk is higher.

    It’s good you’re self reflecting, but reading the one sided view you’ve shared I think he was a bit disconnected and never let his guard down with you. It doesn’t sound like you had a chance to even know him in a real way.

16. Im the same as you ex. Im socially anxious and introverted. That shell is really hard to come out of but when i do im very physical. Its how i show my affection and its super hard to give verbal compliments.

    I came of age in the 90s and to me it seemed like date rape was constantly in the news. Paul Bernardo was big on the news. I see the crap that woman have to endure and i swore i wouldnt be one of those guys. Ive had coworkers that cat call shamelessly and its disgusting.

    I never make the first move when dating. Ive been called cold by multiple women. But its just the way it is.

17. I am extremely comfortable having emotionally heavy conversations. Much more so than my wife…and just about anyone else in my life. It has little to do with being a man or woman (there are some social pressures to consider).

18. ” *Women expect men to be more willing to have heavy conversations than they are biologically able to give* ”

    I’m calling BS on this.

19. I’m a big fan of therapy so I’ll start there. It can give an objective perspective and understanding on the patterns in our lives that are holding us back from being our true or best selves.

    He’s def not right about the biological thing. That’s just silly. And “should have been enough” – NO. That’s not how needs work. Maybe for some people that’s enough. For many (most?) of us, it’s not.

    One of the things you’ll want to figure out is why you go for emotionally unavailable men (if that’s a pattern).

    Good luck!

    (50f)

20. Now the freezing up when you try to initiate sex is weird and should have been looked into deeper.

    But aside from that, why did you go to counselling? To……..fix him? Change him? Into what you wanted not what you had?

21. A couple of things here to pull from what you are saying.

    First define what you mean by emotionally unavailable. This is such a broad term that can mean absolutely anything. Also how long were you together? Including dating.

    >He was this person when I met him, and perhaps I’m just attracted to unavailable guys, or have commitment issues

    This is probably 100% true. You were attracted to the idea of being with him so much that you overlooked the things he was lacking. As time went on, the traits he was lacking, the ones you didn’t think mattered, became more and more noticeable to you as they actually did matter.

    This sentence:
    >He shows his affection through sex (which had always been great) and gift-giving, which should have been enough

    And this sentence:
    >While the relationship started out passionate, by the end, anything even remotely intimate would cause him to freeze up. Literally unable to speak. Even my attempts to seduce him clearly made him uneasy.

    Don’t add up. If he was always like the latter, freezing up at intimacy and your attempts at tying to seduce him made him uneasy, he wouldn’t say he shows affection through sex and you wouldn’t agree that it had always been great. Something here doesn’t sound right at all.

    >Women expect men to be more willing to have heavy conversations than they are biologically able to give

    What heavy conversations were you trying to have? A lot of men have a 20ft wall between them and their emotions, so he’s not completely incorrect here, but without the context of the conversation you are trying to pull out of him it’s kind of difficult to determine where he’s coming from. In general men tend to open up with time. More time together, the more trust or bond there is between the two of you the better the chance of him opening up more.

    >A few other things: he’s an engineer, prior divorced, no kids, an “outgoing introvert,” very active (always running or something all the time), and from Europe while I’m from the US.

    Engineer – I work with a bunch of engineers so going to assume he’s more work focused, book smart, processes things more robotic. Also probably a lot more dense when it comes to things he can’t solve with a pen and paper and lacks more of the street smarts and subtle suggestions.

    Prior divorce – Do you know why the got divorced? Was it for similar reasons?

    Outgoing introvert – That doesn’t exist. That’s a contradicting statement just like your “amazing sex, but afraid of intimacy” statement.

    European vs US is a very different culture specially when it comes to relationships. It’s probably one of the main reasons you were so into him at the beginning of the relationship.

    So in a nutshell, you fell for a guy because he wasn’t like the other guys here. He had traits you found intriguing and the fact he was from another country allowed you to overlook the traits he was lacking. You are trying to justify the split with things that were wrong with the relationship, but it has you so flustered that you yourself can’t make heads or tails of how you actually felt during the relationship. So really, you need to take a step back and ask yourself why you fell for him in the first place, and look back at the warning signs you ignored so when you start dating again you don’t make the same mistakes and marry a guy you are not into.

22. I’m nearly the same age as your husband and I’m emotionally literate and have a healthy, vulnerable and open, communication style. My partner and I talk all day long and absolutely no topic is taboo. Sex is more intense after nearly a decade, and we both initiate equally and talk about and plan and fantasize about the sex we have together. Both emotionally available.

    I know guys like this, my own father for starters, and it drives me out of my mind. Unwilling to put in the work *learn* how to open up. It can be scary and very challenging to learn some of these skills if they don’t come naturally, can involve confronting some past trauma. But protecting your own untenable bad habits and weaknesses, making them their own taboo, is so unhealthy and counterproductive.

    Your partners statements about men are just projections of his own temperament and inclinations, not accurate statements about men.

    It’s not a peek into a male psyche, it’s a peek into one man’s crippling insecurities that he’s mythologized into permanent fixtures of his own masculinity rather than look overlong in a mirror.

23. I’ve been told it’s tiring to find people constantly expressing their physical attraction to you when you want to be seen and desired for WHO you are. Most men probably can’t relate to that (including me).

    Being a man, I was very wary of someone I’d have to perpetually chase. Have you learned that lesson yet?

    Opening up …. Her feelings matter. Mine are an inconvenience. Clearly some guys flip the script. What happens when his feelings make you uncomfortable, or you’re the cause? Being supportive or accepting of someone is work. How serious are you? Do you want to be equals? I’m not sure many people actually want that.

    It didn’t work because you picked wrong from the start. You can fall in love with lots of people. I like to imagine everyone has a compatibility index. It’ll never be 1. But you should get as close as possible. The trouble is you don’t know what you need, and you can’t always trust what you think you want. And the little things cut you again and again over time. You’re learning. I learned I like strong women. For you – no more disinterested men.

24. He may be a deeply-closeted gay man and was trying to use you for cover. These guys can perform the sexual act but struggle with intimacy with the opposite sex. Some of them stay married for decades. The same thing happens with some lesbians. They prefer the friendship company of their own gender and build their deep relationships there.

25. ” *Women expect men to be more willing to have heavy conversations than they are biologically able to give* ”

    If you really believe that statement, then I think that may be part of the problem. It is not a biological issue. It is an issue that stems from several sources. Societal expectations (more so from men than women),prior emotional trauma/pain (growing up, family, prior relationships, etc.), and just not having developed the skill to handle those conversations effectively (in other words, it is a skill that can be learned through practice)

    ​

    I default to avoidant strategies when my nervous system takes a hit, especially in confrontations. By that, I mean I will emotionally become “numb”. This is a great strategy with work or emergencies, but as you’ve notice it becomes an issue when more “positive” emotions come to the surface as well. It can also make it tough to recognize emotions in others (I’ve certainly gotten in trouble a number of times because of it).

    ​

    I could go on this topic a long time so I’m going to stop here. The one tip I can give though, is when a partner is able to open up and/or emotionally respond when they normally can’t, make it a point to enthusiastically and authentically thank them. You need to reward desirable behaviors with positive reinforcement.

26. I’ve been married a total of 33 years to two different women. Everybody is different. I’m also an engineer, outgoing introvert, but I don’t need physical activity all the time, mental activity is more important.

    My first wife loved the “passion” stuff, games, role playing, seduction, and, honestly, I never truly understood it. I tried, but I didn’t get anything out of it, emotionally. I have a vivid imagination, and even written fiction and sold some writing, but that’s just in my head. For her, it was something more and the problem was not that I didn’t try, it was that it didn’t do anything for me, so it wasn’t something we could *share*. So even had I mastered the act of going along with it, it wouldn’t have been enough.

    After we were divorced, she found a guy who liked that sort of romance novel passion. It’s sort of play acting, and sort of not. The funny thing is that I knew this guy was perfect for my ex-wife as soon as I met him. I was content that there was someone more suitable for her out there when we divorced. I loved her, and just wanted for us both to be happy.

    It took a good 5 years of introspection and work to realize the kind of person that would be a good partner for me. It wasn’t someone like my ex. I had to look for a different feeling, different vibe, to not make the same mistake. Love isn’t enough. There has to be a common language as well.

    He wasn’t right for you. You weren’t right for him. It shouldn’t be enough to just get by. Now you know more about what you want. Don’t cheat yourself. Also, keep in mind, it sounds like he was always being himself. You need to learn to see whoever you’re with. You’ll never be compatible in all things, but you have to be compatible on both of your important things.

27. Well, the lines he was putting down don’t make much sense to me either. Most of my job titles had engineer in them, but I have a couple sons, and from the US.

    As others have said, opening up about deeply personal things like emotions has usually ended in the relationship dynamics completely changing. I’m including my ex-wife here after being married for years and having two boys at the time. (My grandmother had passed and she was the mom figure in my life so I thought it was a good time to express some emotions.) Right after I opened up she said, “I think we should try a separation.” Looking back, I should have gone with that, but, like an idiot, I stayed married.

    Add that because of my upbringing and odd way my brain processes things, I’m pretty ignorant about emotions in general. I’ve continued to get better over my decades of life, but I’m still unsure and unable to feel some things at all. (Stress is one I’m unable to feel, but it has a direct correlation to some body functions. So my body can react, but I don’t feel anything.)

    So I’m not a good conversationalist when it comes to feelings even if I try. I don’t have any practice with what I do feel and have a poor ability to express. I show affection by touch. I can verbalize visual attraction. With the sole exception of my wonderful wife, I would never express anything deep, or, actually, attempt to do such. Our relationship hasn’t changed when I express anguish or attempt to categorize feelings I don’t understand. She thinks it’s silly I find her so attractive, but she enjoys it. Plus she’s a touch based person too.

    We are capable of many things, but often others have made it so we have to fit within certain boundaries. There’s nothing we can do about it and we generally know better if someone says they want something outside that. So asking most men about feelings is worse than asking if some article of clothing makes you look fat. It’s one of those things that throws a blizzard of red flags through our vision. Many of us have been there and it’s not gone well. At least that’s the experience myself and every man I’m close enough with to discuss such matters has experienced. There may be a number I’ve not encountered that have had the same experience.

    I know a few guys that are immediately turned off by their partner initiating, but I find it very desirable. So each of us is completely different there. There are many areas where each man is different, just like women. I’d never assume to speak for every man. I can’t imagine the ego to do so.

28. If I could put a billboard up with a message about men’s feeling for all the world to see, it would be this:

    “Most men are not taught how to name, feel, or understand their feelings except for anger.”

29. >He was this person when I met him, and perhaps I’m just attracted to unavailable guys, or have commitment issues

    Can’t comment on this without more info. Based on what you’re saying it sounds like things were better at the start of the relationship, which is common. In the early stages of a relationship, both parties are willing to push themselves out of their comfort zone more and look past certain things in their partners because of their initial infatuation. Once the tide of that honeymoon period wears off you might find certain incompatibilities with your partner that take a lot of work to overcome

    >He shows his affection through sex (which had always been great) and gift-giving, which should have been enough

    The “should have been enough” part is troubling. Partners have to learn to give and receive affection in the way their partner likes to give/receive it. That takes compromise on both sides, so he can’t just say “what I’m doing should have been enough” unless he’s making an honest effort to show affection the way you naturally receive it too.

    >Women expect men to be more willing to have heavy conversations than they are biologically able to give

    I call bs. Sure, stereotypically women like to talk more than men do, but comments like this are usually cop outs that emotionally lazy men make to try and avoid putting in the effort needed to make a relationship work out. Men aren’t “biologically incapable of having heavy conversations,” he’s just conflict avoidant and wants to just ignore certain problems.

30. Hello OhbotherTA,

    Your story resonates as a complex and emotionally layered experience that many can relate to. First and foremost, it’s important to remember that emotional unavailability isn’t gender-specific; it can affect anyone and often stems from past traumas or learned coping mechanisms. That said, societal norms do encourage men to express themselves differently, often through actions like gift-giving or physical intimacy, as your ex did.

    As for the idea that men are “biologically unable” to engage in deep emotional conversations, this is more of a stereotype than a truth. Emotional availability is an individual trait, influenced by a variety of factors including upbringing, past experiences, and personal choice.

    Given your description of yourself and him—his active lifestyle, your independence, and different cultural backgrounds—it’s possible you both had different emotional needs and ways of expressing them. You’re not wrong for wanting emotional and verbal intimacy in addition to the physical aspect and gift-giving; they’re components of a balanced relationship.

    Your inclination to seek out partners who aren’t emotionally expressive could be an avenue for introspection. Sometimes, the partners we choose reflect unresolved issues from our past or even a comfort in familiarity, rather than what is emotionally nourishing for us.

    It’s wise that you’re taking time to understand what went wrong before diving into another relationship. Self-awareness is the first step to ensuring healthier future relationships. If you haven’t already, you may find it useful to speak to a therapist for more personalized insights.

    Best wishes on your journey of understanding and growth.

31. I linked this elsewhere yesterday but it deserves repeating: read [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/yy2rcv/men_who_encourage_other_men_not_to_open_up_to/iwsae0r/?context=3) explanation of the double-mask men have to wear. Even if it’s not true of you it could still be something inside him that he’s doing out of experience.

    That said going for an unavailable man may seem fine at first but at some point for a relationship to work you would need to open up to one another.

    Now the idea that men are “biologically incapable” of having such deep conversations is absolutely absurd. This means that no deep friendship can be just a friendship, like the one between say C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien. The men who write, sing, paint, or otherwise create some of the most heartfelt material ever made were… what? Lying? Faking it for the performance?

    Now a man’s expectation of such a conversation is most often very different from a woman’s. Women tend to want to feel it together, men tend to want to fix it together. So when she’s trying to make him feel it or he’s trying to make her fix it they end up butting heads.