Recently got a new job, it’s fully commission based (first red flag) and pretty unprofessional and cult-like.
They say there’s no roof, you can earn as much a day as you’d like.
But there’s also no floor. Everyday you’ll see a handful (atleast around 5 people) making zero a day, or only £20-40.
They recruit young people but the hours are supposedly only 11-8 (This often doesn’t happen and it ends up going until 9 atleast.) But that also doesn’t account for travel (which you have to pay for yourself).
I’m doing 12 hour days and making less than minimum wage?
My question is, is this actually legal? I’m probably spending more money to go to work than I’m actually gaining at the moment.
And yes before it’s suggested, I am looking elsewhere but until I find another job I’m kinda stuck here.
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I’m almost certain that it would be in breach of national min wage regulations unless you’re self employed.
Crosspost to r/LegalAdviceUK but I’m pretty sure you need to be paid at least minimum wage as a base salary.
Are you actually, legally-speaking, employed by them?
Many years ago I worked for a commission only company doing tele-sales, for one evening. I was young and naive. Never again – it’s a mugs game.
No. Commission only is legal but you still have to earn at least NMW. If your earned commission doesn’t meet NMW then they should pay you the difference.
To the best of my knowledge.
Is it one of those door-to-door type jobs?
It’s a grey area. You technically can be self employed while working for one company, but if the characteristics of the role are that of full time employment, then you should be considered as employed and minimum wage applies.
These commission only scams have existed for years and years, and are generally fly by night companies that will churn through ltd companies until the director gets barred to fly under the radar of having to have actual employees.
I’d avoid like the plague. They’re exploitative and they operate similar to pyramid schemes in terms of the brainwashing techniques they use on people. An ex got into one of them years ago and went to a pretty dark place.
I’ll start by saying that this isn’t legal advice, just my understanding of the situation. And also that I’m sorry for your situation.
The problem is that you’re self-employed.
The company pays you whatever your contract is with the company. You’re providing a service to the company, you’re not employed by the company. Being self-employed is like (actually is) being your own business. Your business signed with another business to provide whatever you do.
As you’re self-employed, it’s not the company’s problem if you don’t earn enough.
IF you were employed by them, travel expenses depend massively on where you’re travelling to. If it’s office based, then you accepted the job, knowing where you’d need to be every day. That’s on you. If it’s driving to a temporary place (e.g. to customers) then they have to pay your travel/time.
However, that doesn’t count as you’re not their employee.
For factual info, the government website describes what makes you self-employed or employee etc:
https://www.gov.uk/employment-status
Someone came round recently doing this for a milk delivery company.
Very nice young man.
We didn’t press him on his employment status but he did give away he was only paid on commission and if we signed up on that day. We strongly suspected it was a self-employment loophole like this.
Pyramid scheme?
I got conned into a Job like this, its pretty much a pyramid scheme in my eyes, you get commission for selling their shit product, and if you do well you can become a team leader where you get money on your underlings sales.
First red flag was when he said we get such a high commission because we sell the product so well. B.S its because the product doesn’t sell.
Key phrases like, its never a dead day its just your ability to sell that needs working on, and the almost cult like reverence for the “boss”.
I quit after my second day standing at a train station thinking why tf am i paying to travel for this “company”
The sales tactics that they use are also very predatory only selling to vulnerable people who dont have a clue.
Like selling ridiculously high interest credit cards to kids and elderly people.
Fuck that Job get out.
WalesOnline might be a shitty source but [this recent series of pieces](https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/exploitative-sales-office-closes-after-27460834) might interest you OP
Update – So I’ve left them, you guys made me realise that they purely fulfill a fake dream and cultist ceremony to keep you engaged.
I’m on my way to the Job Centre for some professional advice.
Fuck these guys, fuck these companies.
And yes I am ever so slightly an idiot for falling for it, thank you.
I had a job like this for a bit while I was a desperate student. It was selling things in the street. Had to pay for my own travel, each day we’d go to a different place. I made like 1 sale in 2 weeks so just didn’t turn up again. No contract, no recourse. Some guys were making really good cash, talking of saving for buying a farm in Australia and the like, but it’s such a predatory business.
This sounds pretty much like it was when I worked for Kirby back in the early 90s. Our all day doorstepping people, evenings on appointments with people you’d doorstepped a couple of days earlier. I stuck it 3 weeks before signing on. It was less demotivating being on the dole.
I remember getting recruited for something similar when I was looking for a full time before I graduated uni (I was working part time and they didn’t want to make me full time). I remember they took me out on the ‘field’ to another town and first red flag was that the woman showing us the ropes had to buy a ticket herself for the train for us and when I asked her if it’ll be reimbursed, she said it wouldn’t be. Idk usually I always got travel outside the usual work area reimbursed for myself.
I remember when we took a break to chat about my expectations and I said I thought there would be a base salary the woman looked at me in disbelief. I had a bad feeling, particularly as I don’t have financial support from my parents so I was always looking for something stable (base salary) and I still had my part time job where I could do OT if needed.
The thing I remember the most is afterwards, after grabbing Mexican food and sitting in my uni room trying to enjoy dinner after wasting my entire day out, the woman called me and was all fake excited. I later read online they do that often to make sure people are still hooked in. They even joked that I have to make sure I don’t go around telling my family that I have my own business, as if I was that naive…
Look into r/DevilCorp. I almost got roped into this, luckily got out before actually “starting to work”
I just left my job coz the boss was a huge creep. I was the manager of a cafe and he was the owner. He hired a new girl, his first words to me about her was “shes very attractive” me and this girl are both half his age. A couple weeks in asked me how she was doing, and honestly she was the shittest worker ever. A bully, generally rubbish, lazy, all the staff felt scared of her, and rude to customers. I told all of this to the owner and said I think we’d be better off letting her go before we waste anymore money on her (but I said it in nicer words haha) and all he said was “well she’s a nice bit of eye candy so I’m keeping her around”. He’s made so many comment like this and I know it’s not illegal to be creepy but surely all these sorts of comments are some kind of work place sexual harassment? I don’t know. But he had staff as young as 13 and I hate the idea that HES their boss. Ew
No it’s not Illegal you’re contracting yourselves on a sales contract, which means you sell, you get paid. I’m sure you’re contract will be clear on this abd by agreeing to this you’ve agreed that unless you sell you won’t be paid.
It’s ahit I totally get that but it’s def not Illegal
This is so weird as I am going through the same thing! Just graduated and was sent a message through LinkedIn! Obviously got the job and done a days ‘work’ and realised I had been lied to about the role! Very much learnt my lesson!
Sounds like a pyramid scheme tbh. Good on you for leaving.
Sounds like a job I interviewed for years ago. Was a door to door charity sales job which disguised itself as “management consulting” or something like that. After the face2face group interview, I let the other candidates know what the reality of it was -basically door to door sales, no basic, a pyramid scheme where you recruit your own team and take a cut of their sales etc. The guy who interviewed me overheard what I was sayin, as my voice is quite loud and I was actually just the other side of the window in his office.. without realising. He stormed out and argued with me about it and stormed off. They still rang me and offered me the job.
These places take anyone on because they have nothing to lose in doing so. Technically it’s legal because you will be classed as self employed, which they try to package as a great thing, you are your own boss with your own business, etc.
Clearly not worth your time unless you are a ruthless and talented salesman and young enough that you can’t get a proper sales job.
Obviously just avoid it, in my opinion. Seemed like a miserable existence for most of them.
It’s a scam company, they prey on the young, naive and jobless.
I imagine these type of organisations see a boom in recruitment thanks to “the alpha male/girl boss grindset”.
Don’t feel bad. After uni I tried to find a marketing role. Replied to a newspaper ad (this was over 20 yrs ago). It ended up being door to door sales. After the first morning were I was supposed to shadow one of their top performers, I told him, I was going home as this was not Marketing. Emailed the company the next day to tell them the same. Many of us have fallen for something dodgy in the hope to find decent work.
That’s all crap and you should leave immediately.
Only thing I’d say was normal is that traveling to and from a place of work is usually counted as your own time and your own cost.
I worked a job like this once. Door to door sales, worked there a month and didn’t earn a single penny. Would leave the house at 7am and wouldn’t get home until around midnight
Under IR35 if you continually work for one company you are classed as an employee, i was put through a dodgy umbrella company to pay me to try and get round this as i was a freelance consultant at a university even although i could prove that i was ir 35 compliant and worked on various projects in capital projects team and agreed what hours were worked on each and invoiced them direct, in the end i had hmrc investigating said company, i left a job i loved because of it and because my wages werent as good and i lost the benefits of being self employed as in travel costs which were about 160 miles per day, some lunch expenses because of long hours etc.