Hi,
I might also repost this in r/relationship_advice and/or r/relationships, FYI. I’m leaving it in here for now, because in the grand scheme of things, this person and I have only been seeing each other for a couple of months. Sorry if this is long.
I (33M) matched with and started chatting with this 35F in early March. We really hit it off over chat and after a few days of getting to know each other, I suggested that we meet up and grab a coffee. She asked to do a couple of phone calls first, which I happily agreed to. We spent hours on the phone, three nights in a row and couldn’t stop talking to each other. We met up for a hike which I only expected to last an hour or so. We spent most of the afternoon walking and talking and when it got cold out, we sat in my car and continued talking. It was incredibly refreshing.
Since then, we’ve seen each other most weekends. We live an hour away from each other, so we’ve taken turns traveling. In between, her and I would msg each other everyday with flirty “thinking of you” msgs. Things were moving fast. She’s told me about a very toxic relationship in which she came from and I’ve shared my past struggles, particularly with rejection. She’s also expressed concern about her age, wondering if she is seen as old. I playfully told her she is ridiculous. She’s told me that she’s falling for me–that she couldn’t stop talking about me to her friends. I quickly fell for her as well. She’s let me in on aspects of her life that she’s told me she’d never tell anyone early on and I did the same because we were comfortable.
I had a friend’s Stag and Doe scheduled for April 30th. Early on, when I was confident, I mentioned it to her and asked if she wanted to go. She seemed happy to. The weekend before, we were at her place and I asked, at the Stag/Doe, what do I introduce her as. She misunderstood and I tried to clarify, she thought and maybe subconsciously I was labelling what we were. Because the word “friend” was uttered, she accused me wanting a “friends with benefits” situation. I reassured her that is not the case and just want to know what we see **this** as. I phrased it like this: I asked, “*If you and I were walking down the street right now going for a coffee and your Mom just happen to run into us and asked you who I am, what would you say? How would you introduce me?”* She said, “*I don’t know”.* I said, “*I don’t know either. Just wondering if this was given any thought from you.”* The matter seemed to wrap up, but leaving the next morning, things felt off all-day. She was occupied most of that Sunday for a family function, but I did talk to her that night on the phone. The topic of discussion was mostly family drama that was happening. Things didn’t get better that week.
She was sick on Monday, recovering on Tuesday, and then noticeably absent on Wednesday, Thursday, and most of Friday. The little I talked to her over text, there was a disaster at her job, which kept her overtime and she told me that she was incredibly stressed and overwhelmed. From the nature of her work, I believe her. We uncharacteristically had a phone call Friday, April 29th in the afternoon during our workday when she was finally free. Getting her on the phone, she was hysterical–told me about her brutal week from being sick, an argument with her brother, this work disaster, and a job offer from a competing company that she needed to decided on. She then brought up her and I, and she is rambling to the point where I told her, *”If you’re thinking about ending* ***this*** *because of what was discussed, to wait and think on it.”* I expressed to her early on to be forward with me about any concerns-I really like her and she likes me, I want it to work. Still upset, she goes “*I don’t want to label anything, I just want to get to you know you. You know my history and I just to slow things down.”* I reassured her that we can slow down, we don’t have to label anything, we can dial it back. Whether she heard me say this or not, I told her that I had a same feeling leaving her place and I intended on talking to her about it in person. Once I had her calm on the phone, I asked her if there was anything else bothering her. I expressed to her then and early on, I never want anyone to feel rushed or forced, it should be mutual for pacing. She reassured me that was it and asked if it was okay to skip the Stag and Doe, she wanted to relax and clear her head for the weekend. She was staying at her Mom and Step-Dad’s.
Since then, last week, she and her parents have had COVID-we had one phone call which was pleasant and a little more playful, but she reiterated that the not labelling and slowing down part. The second phone call a little more serious because it started off with her asking me how my week was, and when I reciprocated the question, there was a little more unpacking going on. She became flustered and said she’s feeling overwhelmed with everything in her life and it became a little bit of a therapy session. Now, she’s expressed that she doesn’t want to dump her past issues on me, but this **toxic** relationship has come up quite a few times from her and has acknowledged that there is likely some unresolved relationship trauma from that. I suggested to her that maybe therapy is an option–she’s admitted to me that she had a therapist during college because she was overwhelmed from school, so she’s not against it. The main crux of that convo though was her confusion as to why “an awesome guy like me would want a messed up girl with issues like her.” I had to reassure her that I have a genuinely good time with her. I like hanging out with her and we have fun. At one point she said, “*you can have someone else who is better at this relationship stuff.”* I had to continuously convince her that I was interested in her, but it got to the point where I was feeling uncomfortable and was wondering if she wanted to end things, but couldn’t bring herself to do it–trying to get me to do it, maybe. I asked her, “a*re you stringing me along?” “No.”* I told her, “*you can end this.” -* I gave her an out, but she didn’t take it. She said we should continue the conversation.
She’s still recovering from COVID this Mother’s Day weekend, but she did suggest we do something next weekend if not during the week if she’s feeling better. Ironically, her Mom and Step-Dad (where she’s staying now) live in my city –we’re physically closer in proximity than before but we’re talking on the phone and text. In between these phone calls, her text are few and far between. Not playful at all. I’m initiating most of the conversation and instead of replying within a few hours playfully, she reads them (read receipts) immediately and won’t reply to me until a day or two later. I know she wanted to slow things down, but I’m concerned. I asked her not string me along, but now I’m fearing one of two things:
1. She’s not interested in me anymore even though she told me she is but is planning on ending this in person; or
2. She’s self-sabotaging this because of relationship commitment issues.
I don’t want to continuously harp on it over text and phone because of so little we talk to each other. I want to be more playful with her.
She definitely has some concerns that could benefit from talking to a professional. She’s expressed to me how much she hates living in her condo in that particular city and wants out–I think isolation anxiety from the pandemic has gotten to her. I’m having a difficult time concentrating on other things in my life because I do like this girl and before this mix-up, she was really into me. She talked about how she wanted to look at Halloween costumes and planning fun stuff in the summer. Now, I don’t know. I’m trying to go at her pace for communicating but won’t feel better about this until she seems a little more lively in her communication and/or I see her in person to feel out the situation. We were very physically affectionate and sexually active with each other early on, so if she’s distance on that front too, I don’t know if that is a sign of her slow down or if she’s just stringing me along.
Thoughts? Again, sorry that this is long.
20 comments
When people start with this stuff
> an awesome guy like me would want a messed up girl with issues like her
> you can have someone else who is better at this relationship stuff
I believe them. I used to think “oh how cute, I’ll show them that they are loveable” but when people say stuff like this they are usually warning you whether they know it or not. We all have our stuff, but someone who doesn’t think they are good enough to date because of that stuff needs to keep working through the stuff.
> thoughts?
It’s been a couple of months, you’re having to convince her that you like her, you’re confused, she’s pulling away, this is way too much for a legit relationship let alone some early dating scenario. I would stop trying so hard and move on. It does not sound like she’s ready and the fact she keeps mentioning toxic relationships and how you shouldn’t want to date her is her telling you this.
I think you could just make your interest in her and intentions very clear. Tell her you want her to be your girlfriend and if she does not reciprocate then you know. It’s clearly her issues and nothing to do with you.
At the very least, I see some red flags based on your post that may mean she isn’t ready for a stable relationship/has some unresolved issues/insecurities that will prevent her from maintaining one. There seems to be a major roadblock in the communication department, which is the basis for a healthy relationship. This isn’t something you can change or even help her with; she will need to sort these things for herself. This is why it’s important to go slow during the getting to know each other part, I tend to get too invested too fast & then feel responsible for the other person, which should make both parties uncomfortable.
Read about attachment theory. She sounds like a fearful avoidant. If that’s the case, it’s not about you, it’s about her, but dating her will be a very hard road for you. I’m dating a fearful avoidant but I didn’t know that until the 7 month mark. If I had known earlier, I doubt I would have stuck around.
You’re eight weeks in and everything is already very confusing and difficult.
Relationships aren’t supposed to be this hard. Move on.
> I asked, at the Stag/Doe, what do I introduce her as
General piece of advice to anyone on this….if “labels” are a sensitive topic for someone and this situation comes up, try this: “Hey Friend A, this is Person’s Name”, and leave it at that. Inevitably, someone will ask “Are you dating?”, to which you can reply “We’ve gone out X times over the past X weeks”.
You haven’t said anything factually incorrect, and you haven’t placed a label on your relationship.
She seems to be self-sabotaging. That’s who she is. It is toxic to be taking something with a great potential and making it into something dysfunctional. It is my opinion that she isn’t allowing you to have meaningful positive value-add. I recommend walk away now and tell her to reach out if something changes. That way, you are a positive memory and when she is ready for positive move forward, she can turn to you, if you are still available. If you stay and tag along while she is acting as she is, sooner than later the relationship will be just a fraction of its potential and you likely know already it’s not enough.
Too much drama, and it sounds like incompatibility.
Everything was fine, til OP wanted to have a labels “we’re formally dating now” discussion. She blew up at it, so clearly doesn’t want any of that now. Then suddenly their life all started falling apart and they had a million things going wrong, which conveniently buys them space from the labels discussion, and also sympathy so it sounds like it’s nothing to do with the relationship (which she doesn’t seem to want).
OP brought up the topic again, suggested that she’s stringing them along, etc. That just makes the situation worse, because now not only is she not delivering on the formal labeled relationship that was asked about, now it looks accusatory and even if she was going to end things may feel pressured to keep up appearances longer. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
I mean at this point, you have some choices. You can just let her set the pace of the relationship and not discuss it. That may keep you in a casual “limbo” (but can’t say friends with benefits because that’s a dirty term!) in hopes that she’ll eventually want the same serious-formal relationship that you do. Or, she may want a serious relationship…just not with you. And when someone who fits their criteria comes along, she’ll end it, and you’re feel like you were strung along as you’ve mentioned several times.
Or you can just end things now. Let her know that after a couple of months it seems like there won’t be any formal relationship in place like you’d hoped, and since you have incompatible desires there wish her luck and feel free to reach out later when she’s emotionally available and not scared of the formal commitment. It is fair to say “things started off so quickly and well, but it seems we’re nowhere near the level of intimacy and relationship that I expected to be at this point, so I think we need to try something else for both of our sake’s.”
Otherwise, to her, it may seem like *you’re* stringing her along by pretending to be fine with something that you’re actually not.
Hey brother- had this thing almost to a T earlier this year. It was tough. Great girl, bent over backwards to convince herself she wasn’t good enough for me. She was working on herself, and warned me about self-sabotage. She needed things slow- we got off to a little too quick of a start (both of us being complicit), and she pulled back hard after about two months of awesome.
Ultimately she started sabotaging the thing, I got frustrated and made a (fairly mild) series of mistakes, and she dumped me. This feels so, so similar. I had never seen this kind of thing before, and it was confusing. I was there for her, I was willing to slow down, show her I care, back off if needed- anything. I knew this wasn’t normal, but I was willing to work with it…. but it’s like, once in motion, this process can’t be stopped.
It was a bummer, for sure, but in my case (and yours may be different), I think it would have ended up there anyway.
But it was the same thing- once the texts cooled off/she cooled off, it was like she had gone into protection mode. I don’t think anything could’ve changed it. Matching her didn’t help a thing.
So here’s what I can tell you- this may be out of your hands. Maybe you tell her ‘look, I care for you, and I’ll be here if you want it, but if you’re not in this, please let me know.’ I think grabbing at her/exhibiting attachment will cause her to pull away more. It has to do with an insecure attachment style, I think, which is codified early, like as an infant. Alcoholic parents are a common predicate, because they’re loving sometimes, but then sometimes they’re just not there. That’s what they’ve come to expect- that all of a sudden, you won’t be there when they need you, and it will be out of their control. So they don’t trust you- but it isn’t about you.
I mean, this one hurt. For all the messiness, me and this girl had an electric connection, like no other. I wasn’t ready to lose her, and it was so confusing and so hurtful when I did.
Hang tight, and do the best you can do. Be as open as you can possibly be. If it’s not enough, don’t blame yourself.
I am in a similar situation. I am trying to be mature about it, but it is hard because the other person is being somewhat immature by not addressing that their past relationships are impacting their current one. Hard to be so into someone and have them be so unsure.
as someone who often behaves the way the woman in this scenario does, I can tell you for sure that it sounds like self sabotage. It’s something she needs to identify and work on for herself. It’s possible she is trying to make you “fight” for her, but tbh I don’t think you should – you can calmly say how you feel and provide reassurance, but if she’s anything like I was in the past, she might be looking for grand gestures and I wouldn’t play into that. I wish my exes had stuck around with me through it, but I understand why they didn’t, and I am working really hard to change the behaviour for myself so I don’t keep repeating it.
As someone who used be with someone who was abusive. So I understand the feeling of push and pull because you are just confused. So I really give you the kudo of trying to read her emotions as to when to back off/slow down but not fully giving up and tried to support her. However, you are not her ex…. so she has to meet you half way. So from how I read of you, I think you will really make someone happy, but not so sure if she’s it for you.
This is far too much drama and stress. I would move on.
Honestly I’m tired already. This is too much for such a short relationship where she has you questioning everything. It’s not your job to convince someone to want you and show steady affection. Maybe you need to step away and do your own thing…she gets her therapy and if you’re both available and in a good mental space you try again. I personally wouldn’t though because I don’t want to deal with people’s mental baggage. Some people carry it around like a prized possession and use it as an excuse to treat people in an unacceptable manner. Replying a day later to my texts would be a deal-breaker right there.
She isn’t ready for a relationship.
She threw herself into the relationship early on because it felt good to get attention and free therapy. Now that you have, inadvertently, put expectations on the relationship by asking what it was – she’s going to burn everything. There’s absolutely nothing you can do at this point to save the relationship, she’s panicking and wants out but doesn’t want it to be “her fault”.
You can either give her space and wait for her to decide to leave you. Or you can end things yourself.
But even with massive amounts of therapy, it’s going to take her at least a year to work through everything going on with her. Do you really want to deal with this for that long, even if she lets you?
I have spent the better part of a week watching youtubes and reading about breakups and relationships because I just went through a whopper of one. In every one and in my conversations with friends who are in happy relationships each of them said that you being confused about how they feel about you is your answer. You should always be a “hell yes” to the other person, not a “I’m thinking about it or I’m confused.” I’m not saying yours will end up in the same way I’m just saying I went through a time when things just didn’t add up and I was given actions and words that created confusion for me. If you like, love or are serious about pursuing someone in a healthy relationship, their feelings and corresponding actions should be clear.
Hey there! So not to therapize you but I’ll ask like I do my clients. After all of this why do YOU want to continue?
You know she had a toxic relationship, but what you don’t know is the true cause of said toxicity and she is showing you behaviors that scream possible unresolved trauma and a possible attachment disorder. I understand sometimes as we age it’s easier to get attached earlier because we feel we know what we want and who we want, the problem is you two were seemingly going down the same path then she emotionally unloads everything going on with her on you. Which, I can see it almost like a test, to test her security with you (is she able to unload?, are you comforting? Are you still there?) and test y’alls level of attachment to one another.
It’s been 8 weeks, that sounds mentally exhausting. Are you prepared for this anytime to possibly happen every time she has a bad week(s)?
I had a very similar experience with someone I dated for six weeks almost three years ago. Once we had something like a DTR talk, she said she wasn’t ready for a relationship and suddenly started distancing until she all but disappeared. For such a short fling, it was devastating.
The same woman has cycled in and out of my life periodically ever since. There was a time or two early on that I thought we might get back together, but we never did. She’d just play hot and cold and then ghost for months at a time. It kept me hung up on her for way too long.
She’s married to another man now, and I’ve moved on. But just the other day she hit me up again, telling me she had a dream about me and that she thinks of me often. I didn’t bite, so idk where she was going with that. But it amazes me that she’s kept this game up three years and one husband later.
Things shouldn’t be this confusing this early, friend. I’m sure she’s great, but I’d recommend moving past this one
She can have toxic relationships in the past and a bunch of stressors in her life now and wanna go for a slow pace in dating – but it doesn’t mean she should treat you with more confusions than needed. Deliberately distancing you from what you’ve established could be pretty hurtful. You’ve got your boundaries too – she’s allowed to have any issues but to project them onto your relationship is not necessary. IMO, take a step back and shift your focus on yourself for now, do what you enjoy and let her come to you.