How do I (38M) tell my wife (34F) she needs to get better with hygiene?

35 comments

1. If divorce is off the table why even bother venting to Reddit? You’ve already decided that the misery your enduring is for the duration and from the sound of it, your spouse knows this too. Why should she bother to pick up a toothbrush, wash a dish or pick up toys off the floor? You do it all. Her lack of hygiene and how offensive it is to you is of no matter. Now stop whining and clean up the house…

2. I have to have these conversations with students (adults), and it’s a really uncomfortable conversation to have. I don’t know how you’d feel about saying it to your wife, but I’ve always found just being upfront and honest is the best approach, but again, that’s not me having to say it to a SO. Just be respectful but say you’ve noticed there has been times you’ve been able to smell body odour and bad breath, and it’s not a good form of hygiene for your child to follow. There really isn’t an easy way to tell someone they smell, but just be kind, reiterate that you love her.

3. I’m very sorry for your whole family. Your wife needs to get her depression taken care of. Otherwise, you’re all going to be miserable for even longer.

   So just to help you understand the “fuck hygiene” kind of depression: you know how you feel better after you shower & brush your teeth? And how you feel better about yourself and more confident around others when you feel clean? She can’t feel that right now. Her brain isn’t processing the chemicals required to appreciate just being clean. She feels just as shitty smelling like a rose as she does reeking, so it’s very difficult to expend the effort needed to stand for 10 minutes in the shower. It’s fucking hell.

   Is she not being honest with her doctor and therapist? This is a clear sign that she needs an adjustment to her meds.

4. > I am a child of divorce and I would rather be miserable than put my daughter through that.

   So you’d rather your kid grow up thinking she shouldn’t have to brush her teeth or shower because Mommy doesn’t? Or field her questions about why Mommy never wants to spend time with her despite sharing the same house?

   Don’t get me wrong; it sounds like there’s something going on with your wife physically or mentally that’s getting in the way of her being an active participant in her own life, and maybe you should see about getting the therapist on your side that she needs to really commit to working on that with her own team of professionals. But given her lack of follow-through on anything that’s come up in counseling, I think you need to be prepared to make it clear things can’t continue like this and actually be willing to pull the trigger on leaving if nothing changes, or nothing’s going to change.

5. You think your daughter growing up in a home with a miserable father and a depressed mom is going to be healthy for her? Simply having two bodies around isn’t going to make her life better. The benefits of being raised in a two parent home is only beneficial when both parents are happy and are active participants.

6. >I am a child of divorce and I would rather be miserable than put my daughter through that.

   Your daughters life will be worse if you stay in a marriage where you are unhappy. Sure your parents obviously didn’t handle co-parenting well but you can learn from it and do better. Staying in an unhappy marriage is not it and your daughter won’t thank you for it.

   You’ve already talked to your wife many times and nothing changes, so you aren’t really left wuth any other option.

7. Divorce should always be on the table. I understand that you’re a child of divorce, but do you think raising a child in a miserable environment where her parents are unhappy is such a good idea? If you don’t divorce your wife, the cycle of misery will continue. Your daughter will learn that misery is just a part of being a family, which is not true! She will learn that staying for your children is the best thing you can do even if you’re unhappy, and if she finds herself in an unhappy marriage she will stay in it if she has children. Why would you want this for your child?

8. I also have had a child and I’m pregnant with our second (late 3rd trimester). I fell into a spiral of depression. (Diagnosed before having kids) and also didn’t realise that I hadn’t been keeping up with normal hygiene routines recently.
   I noticed last week my partner would go into the bathroom and I would go in there too because we would be in the middle of a conversation, then he would start brushing his teeth and hand me my toothbrush with paste on at the same time and I’d brush my teeth too whilst we continue our conversation…. I didn’t realise what he was doing for a long time and it really helped me get back ontrack.
   He also suggested showering together and he washes my hair for me , honestly it doesn’t feel like such a chore and gives us good bonding time too 🙂

9. Im sorry OP. Depression can be very tough.

   Seems like no matter what you say or how you approach the subject, she’s going to be defensive. She’s probably aware that she hasn’t showered/brushed teeth/hygiene upkeep but is obviously deep enough in her depression/anxiety to ignore it. I like what someone else replied who realized her husband would brush his teeth and put a toothbrush in her hand to join him and the showers too. Maybe you can just guide her over to brush her teeth and/or shower gently. Like “honey, let’s get up and go brush our teeth. Let’s go shower and talk about xx(interesting topic for her etc)”. Maybe have her join your daughter or all 3 of you brush teeth together etc. depending how old your daughter is, let’s put on deodorant etc etc.

   But also sounds like a more serious conversation needs to happen regardless. Whatever she’s doing/trying doesn’t seem to be working and I feel for her and you/your daughter as well. It’s not easy.

10. Your stance on divorcing with a child is objectively worse for the child.

11. The fact that she’s embarrassed to speak about it indicates that she knows it’s a problem. If her meds are helping with her depression, it’s worth asking her more directly about why she is continuing these poor behaviors. Is she punishing you for something? Does she feel a lack of control over her life and this is one thing she can control? It will only get better if you can bring whatever is causing it into the light.

12. It’s not clear if you’re still in couples therapy? If so, I would continue to bring this topic up until there is progress. If not, do you occasionally attend or interact with the individual therapist? Discuss with them with the view to an action plan, how do we build these routine behaviors?

    In talking to your wife, it’s great to share your concern about what lessons your daughter is learning. But I would also stress she interacts with others outside the home. Does she go to her job or WFH? I think a lot of people took a hit on the hygiene issue and overall depression during the Covid lockdowns and WFH. If you wife has a flexible work arrangement, maybe it’s better for her mental health to go into the office more often. Working from home is sure convenient but it is isolating. Not the same incentive to jump in the shower first thing in the morning.

    If one of your wife’s problem time for being motivated is the hectic morning routine, suggest she starts taking a daily shower at night before going to bed. Or when she comes home from work to transition from the work day to home.

    Sorry I don’t have more practical advice! I feel for what you’re going through. I’ve had to have the hygiene conversation a couple of times with employees and it’s not easy.

13. Kids with unhappy parents don’t typically end up understanding how to form strong relationships with other people and they see more than you think, just my 2 cents on divorce, but you don’t want that understandably.

    Just because you do a lot of the childcare, home maintenance and also work doesn’t mean your wife ISNT overwhelmed, it’s difficult being a working mother the guilt/postpartum alone could crush anyone and she has her base level of anxiety/depression to deal with on top of that.

    I wouldn’t dismiss her experience just because you don’t think she’s overwhelmed, when she may in fact be. Ultimately she needs to get help to deal with things but perhaps you can alleviate stress by giving her a break in some way.

    Ideally something that gets her back to doing things she enjoys outside of being a wife, mother, and worker, this may help to reduce whatever stress she’s feeling and restore motivation to take care of herself.

14. You say that you’ve come here for advice but you’re fighting every piece of advice being given to you. You say in one comment that your child doesn’t notice that anything is wrong but in another comment you say she asks you why her mother is always sleeping. You also say that to your child it’s a happy family but do you really think she doesn’t notice that you don’t even want to kiss your wife because she doesn’t brush her teeth as you’ve said? So I’m assuming you and her probably don’t touch each other much either. She is 5 years old. That’s old enough to understand (to a certain extent) and see what is happening and also she’s at an age where she will start to retain memories. She will be 7 years old in 2 years… you really don’t think she will remember all this?

    I understand you want to preserve your marriage in the hopes that your child can have a different upbringing from you but I think you’re being very selfish in and not recognising the effect this situation is going to have on your child in the long run. You keep saying your wife is trying and doing her best and I imagine she is doing the best she can but is this really what you want to expose your 5 year old to? You’ve also said (I think in one of the comments) that your wife is also aware of the effect this can have on your child… so why not protect the child?

    Also, you have given your wife no consequences for her actions and in that way you are enabling her behaviour and maybe even holding her healing process back a tad bit who knows?

    My advice (which you probably will fight) is to suggest a separation for the sake of your child. You don’t have to go full on divorce but your baby is getting older and the things you keep saying she is not seeing will become clearer the older she gets. Your wife has been struggling with her condition for 5 years now… do you see any change in the near future? I doubt it since you have come to Reddit for advice. Consider removing your baby from that situation before it leaves a lasting effect.

15. If this is not a dealbreaker for you and you are willing to suffer for your daughter (don’t recommend) then that’s that.

    You’ve already communicated. She doesn’t care.

    Just as a side note, you doing all the work while she sleeps on the couch, your daughter sees this. You are modeling marriage for her.

    Staying is not the gift you think it is.

16. Why, in this sub, are people so quick to press for divorce to hiccups in a marriage? God forbid any of your spouses abandon you if you ever gets sick mentally or physically.

    His wife has clinical depression…she’s not being abusive or neglectful, she’s incapacitated by mental illness that she’s trying to find solutions for (OP says she’s got ppd and refuses help, but then says she’s getting meds and therapy). He obviously still loves her to try. What ever happened to in sickness and in health?

    OP, I’m sure you understand that sleeping every chance she gets and hygiene going out the door are the most common depression. It shows her meds aren’t working, she needs to keep trying adjustments until they do and that could take time. It is hard and unfair, yes, but you need to find ways to cope or help until she’s on the right meds.

    The focus should be in a few different directions—first is to encourage her to understand her meds aren’t working and to continue working with her team to find a different combination.

    Second is to encourage her routinely to do the things you want her to do, I.e., make it something you can do together, give her positive feedback on her good days, give credit for doing things partially, etc. There are subreddits on depression and people often give tips on either how to cope with it themselves or how to cope with their partner’s. Hygiene issue is a common topic.

    Third is to maybe also want to talk to your daughter about why mom sleeps so much, together or with a therapist. Depression can be genetic. Your daughter may be too young or not for that conversation, but can be worth looking into.

    Fourth, but not lastly, take time to take care of yourself. Ask for help from your parents or friends and be sure to take time for your own health.

    That all being said, if you ever feel like you want to stop and the desire to support her isn’t there anymore and you want a different life, no one will blame you. There is a difference between wanting to make a marriage work and not choosing divorce.

17. so the comments are pretty harsh, but you’ve done everything anyone could recommend you do: she’s in therapy, has a psychiatrist, she’s had testing done, you’ve had conversations, and even couple’s counseling.

    your daughter already knows something isn’t normal about your family, or she wouldn’t be asking why mommy sleeps all day. i know you’re doing your best to shield your daughter from misery, but kids are intuitive, and parents are often surprised when they find out how much they knew all along. they’re prone to feeling like they caused their parents problems or can fix them. consider therapy for her as well.

    all there really is to do is tell your wife you’re at the end of your rope. emphasize that you’re trying, that you don’t want to divorce her, but don’t sugar coat your feelings. you’re exhausted, and from the sounds of it, basically a single parent.

    she needs to be dedicating herself to getting better or *insert consequences* . for me, this meant giving up naps, setting alarms to journal, doing the hygiene i could. maybe i could only brush for 30 seconds, but anything worth doing is worth half assing. sometimes the only reason i can handle showering is if my partner showers with me. she needs to be seeing her psych every month (or as frequently as you can afford) until her medication is consistently working. ask to sit in on a therapy session so you can fully understand what she’s experiencing right now and if her therapist has advice for ways you support her.

    your wife will likely never be cured, and she may experience dips as various life events happen, but she still has to try. for you, your family, and most importantly, herself because no one deserves to live like this.

18. Part of our job as parents is to demonstrate healthy relationships and behaviors for them to model.

    Even if you’re not fighting in front of a child, kids pick up on tension, body language, and lack of affection. They pick up on habits. Kids who grow up with this sort of dysfunction are at higher risk of developing anxiety and mental health issues. And as adults are at risk of ending up in similarly dysfunctional relationships because that’s what is normal to them.

    Your compassion for your wife is kind but it’s been 5 years and she’s not improving. In some ways, it sounds like you’re enabling her. I’m not without empathy regarding mental health issues but you have a child to be concerned with.

19. My spouse’s depression manifested as sleepy-smelly too. Adressing it directly made it worse, look up “how to adhd wall of awful” on YouTub, it explains the cycle.
    Anywho, I started with water, people who don’t self-care don’t drink enough. I didn’t ask him to drink, I removed the barriers by putting it infront of him and telling him “you are dying of dehydration.”
    Is she open to showering together if you make it clear its a “I’ll wash your hair and rub your back ” kind of thing not a expectation of sex?
    Try to identify the toothbrushing barrier. I cannot recommend a waterpick enough. Softer bristle toothbrushes. Does the toothpaste taste or texture put her off? Does she not remember until leaving for work? Disposable toothbrushes are a thing and can be kept in the car until brushing becomes normal again. Some depression and anxiety meds make you drowsy, is the doctor fully informed about the daily crash? Somethings get glossed over because appointments are so short, make sure this isn’t.

20. Ask a therapist or a professional, not Reddit.
    A lot of people commenting probably don’t have much experience with severe depression, parenting, or being in a committed relationship – much less all three. Divorce is not necessarily what is best for your daughter, unlike what lots of comments here seem to be encouraging.

    Forget “relationship modelling” for a minute, which is what a lot of people are mentioning, because clinical depression is a whole different ball game. Statistically speaking, your daughter may inherit depressive tendencies. Leaving her mother because of those tendencies may convince her she’s unlovable should she ever suffer ill mental health. Supporting her mother shows her that you should help the people you love when they’re sick; not abandon them because it’s inconvenient to you. That being said. Boundaries are critical – otherwise she may model YOU and put up with things she shouldn’t have to when she’s older and become a partner / career – so it’s important to have conversations with both of them about what’s going on, and how to make things better. Even if she’s 5. “Mommy is sleepy, because she doesn’t feel very well.”

    I also suggest you encourage your wife to think about what SHE is modelling for your daughter – it’s not just about hygiene, but about simply taking care of herself, emotionally as well as physically. Maybe she needs a new therapist, a life change, a job that doesn’t wipe her emotional energy so much. Pointing to the symptoms will make her self conscious. Offering support at the cause will make her more likely to change. She needs to learn to manage her depression through healthy habits, not just therapy and medication; they’re helpful, yes, but they aren’t magic fix-alls.

21. It sounds like her depression drugs were not really working before. Depressed people lack motivation to do anything including hygiene. I am really sorry OP, that sucks.
    I would say “hey have you showered and brushed your teeth? When?”. “I would physically navigate the partner there and say, go to the shower, it will make you feel sho much better”

22. I’ve posted this as a reply, but making it it’s own comment because I was to make sure OP sees it:

    Don’t listen to these people pushing divorce OP. If you believe in marriage and love your wife, this is a “for worse” moment. You don’t leave your wife when she’s at her worst. You work through it together as a team.

    Perhaps she should switch therapists. Not all therapists are a good fit. Perhaps explore another type of therapy. I don’t know enough about some of the alternatives like psychedelics, but it might be something to explore with the guidance of a mental health professional. If you’re in the US, Oregon and Washington state offers some treatments which are professionally monitored and include aftercare. It’s a few days to a week commitment.

    Good luck!

23. First off, you are absolutely doing a great job being a compassionate partner and father. I think depression and anxiety plus PPD has really done a number on your wife. I would suggest that she may need more intensive therapy. Is she open to that right now?

    Additionally, you need to see a therapist without her and so should your daughter. They can give you advice on how to approach these situations. And go to family therapy together.

24. > She generally has issues with depression and anxiety, but takes multiple medications and is in therapy.

    For how long? Your description tells me *none of it* is working.

    You know how she gets better with hygiene? By getting her depression taken care of.

    When you’re deep in the throes of a depressive episode, *nothing matters.* You don’t care about yourself. You don’t want to live. You don’t want to *die,* either. You just stop… *wanting.* You’re not living, you’re not even surviving. You feel like a background NPC.

    Everything that is *YOU* is shut down and rebooting while the depression has hold, and there is nothing that can be done until it is over.

    If your wife is on (multiple?!) meds for her depression, they’re not working. They’re probably making things worse. You also say she’s got problems with anxiety? 100% she can feel these things aren’t working, but she doesn’t want to say anything because she thinks she’s just a bother to you. This is an anxiety thing and no amount of words or actions will change that mindset; it’s not you.

    She needs your love, your encouragement, and *your energy* to make some very necessary changes if you want them done in a timely manner; otherwise, these things will only get done when the depression lets go for long enough to get them done.

    You wanna help in the meantime? Shower *with* her. Offer to help her with her hygiene, and treat her as if she were terminally ill. Because she is.

    Depression is a terminal illness. It doesn’t go away, it can only be managed. And it is **HELL** to manage on your own.

25. Reading this post and some of the comments makes me wonder whether she’s burnt out and phoning in what she needs to in order to get through each day. She’s clearly exhausted somehow and shutting down. I’m concerned about an underlying unknown physical health condition in addition to the things you’ve spoken about.

26. Depression is so tough to deal with. But I think she needs different meds and a new therapist. Whatever she’s on is not working.

    And a trick I heard of before-Tell her to put sticky note on mirror reminding her to wash face & brush teeth with the reason why she should do it, like bc she needs to keep her mouth healthy to avoid major dental issues or whatever motivates her. Have it all just sitting on counter to be available.

27. Is she on medication for her depression? If no, she needs it. If yes, she needs to maybe adjust the dosage or try a different medication.

28. Don’t worry, my comment is not “leave her!”.

    That said, that “divorce is off the table, would rather suffer than put kid thru divorce” really struck me… is divorce great for a kid? Most likely not. But……. With this firm unwavering stance, you’re teaching your kid that it’s better to suffer in mariage than to be happier single or unmarried. You’re showing her by example that marriage is more important than her actual wellbeing. You’re teaching her that divorce is an unacceptable option, whatever the circumstances.

    My parents should have divorced earlier, no doubt. They waited until i was 17, brother 15, and there was not physical abuse or anything like that. But i did learn from my mom that it’s normal that you endure and endure and endure silence, and i got into a silence relationship that lasted 8yrs. (6 of those 8 years were unbearable, pure emotional and psychological torture honestly. Not because he communicated more in the first two years, but i wasnt worn down yet and “took it” more easily at first.) Took therapy to break that cycle. (When i was dating after, my #1 criteria was someone who talks/expresses himself freely and easily, and i found him eventually! Lol And i love him for it too, very appealing to me lol 😁)

    Again not saying to divorce, or that divorce is peachy and rainbows. But that **unwavering** stance is SHOWING her stuff you might not be intending to show her. Just a thought.

29. The sleeping is due to depression. I feel bad for all of you. It’s a terrible disease that I have myself. Sometimes it becomes difficult to care about anything when you’re in so much pain all the time.

30. Is she in therapy?

    And not all divorces are bad. In this case it sounds like it may actually be better for the kid then staying with her.

31. She needs a new therapist and meds if the current situation isn’t working. I suggest being gentle, but firm about her lack of hygiene being a turn-off.

32. I feel like she needs to get her body moving. Although i shower every morning, ive been really bad for doing the go to work, come home and sleep/veg out, go to bed and repeat cycle. Going for a walk after work, going to the gym for even 45 minutes really helps but i know its can be SO hard to start. It’s important to keep our bodies in motion though, it will help with the depression and it will help keep her healthy long term! Maybe you can propose a family walk or family bike ride a few times a week???

33. >Also divorce is off the table. I am a child of divorce and I would rather be miserable than put my daughter through that.

    So you’d rather put your daughter through this misery instead? To know that her parents could be happier, except that they stay together because of her?

    Sometimes divorce is the only way to save a kid. Your wife is teaching your daughter that these behaviors are healthy in a relationship, and your daughter will model them. And the longer you stay, the more you validate your wife’s behavior to your daughter. By divorcing, you would be teaching your daughter the value of self-respect and also how to end an unhealthy relationship.

    Don’t let your own issues with your past trump what your daughter needs from you.

34. When was the last time she had her medications and dosages reassessed?

    Also hear me out. Exercise and being physically active is shown to combat anxiety and depression. Take a walk with your spouse and kid outside. Getting fresh air and being active consistently had been shown to improve mood. Start small.

35. I’m so sorry that you, she, and your daughter are going through this. Mental health issues are difficult, painful, and many times shameful although they should not be.

    I’m no expert in anything, but I just want to offer my 2 cents in your comment about divorce….I understand your stance and why you feel that way, but please think very carefully about this and do some research regarding children growing up in households with parents who are unhappy and only together for thar child vs children of divorce. I’m not implying your situation is at or even near the point of divorce whatsoever, just want you to explore the other side of your argument.

    My best friend growing up was the youngest of 3 kids. Her sister was 3 years older than her and her brother was 3 years older than her sister. Her parents had been together since they were pretty young so quite a long time, but my god they were miserable together. They had a big, beautiful home that they’d built on 5 acres and if you only saw them from afar you’d have thought they had a beautiful, happy life together. Her mom was a SAHM and dad worked at a local steel mill making apparently good money. Her parents bedroom was on the second floor down the hall from the kid’s rooms but I can’t recall seeing him step foot in there one time. He had basically made himself an entire apartment in their basement which is where he always was. He had a living room, bathroom, bedroom, and separate entrance to get in there without having to go through the main floor of the house down the steps. It was extremely rare that I saw him upstairs or with the family, even for meals/dinner.

    Every single night, without fail, her mom would go down to the basement once everyone was in bed and it wasn’t long before you could hear them yelling at each other. My friend was very embarrassed and ashamed of this therefore it was very rare that she had any friends other than me stay the night. We were so close and had a sort of unspoken understanding about it. As a kid I thought it was really fucking weird but thinking back on it now as an adult in my early 30s, it’s even more puzzling and sad.

    Her parents didn’t spend any time together that I ever witnessed outside of mandatory family gatherings and these nightly rows. I don’t understand why she went down there late every night for them to just scream at each other so loudly that we could hear the entire conversations from the second floor of the house.

    Years prior to all of this becoming the norm, when the kids were young(er), her parents relationship or lack there of was just as bad or nonexistent but they thought the kids had no idea. Even back then her dad slept in the basement and didn’t spend time with her mom or the family but they *never* argued, raised voices, made remarks about each other, etc if the kids were home or nearby. I can’t remember how old we were when they realized they hadn’t concealed anything, all of the kids knew, and just started fighting at night in the house. Long before they stopped trying to hide their terrible relationship we all knew. There was so much tension, negativity, etc.

    Because of this, my friend resented her dad something fierce. Her mom was seemingly easygoing, funny, and close with all 3 of them where dad was essentially the opposite. They were miserable with each other. Miserable. My friend and her siblings wanted them to split up more than almost anything. Back then I thought they were sticking it out strictly for the kids and for the sake of being a nuclear family because that’s what was “right” and expected. I still think that this was the main factor but imagine finances was another big part of it.

    Anyway, the tension and constant fighting deeply affected my friend. She spent her entire childhood being raised by her parents who were miserable together, hoping they’d split up instead of living in a pressure cooker of unhappiness.

    They finally separated and divorced about 18 months after she graduated high-school and went off to college. Her entire life up to that point had been spent growing up in a home with parents who seemingly couldn’t stand one another, were both very unhappy, in a constant state of tension, walking on eggshells with all of this, etc etc etc….only to have them split up the minute she was out of the house, making her feel that they spent all of those years in misery because of her. All of that dysfunction and tension affected her, the way she views, and the way she participates her own relationships in a huge way but the guilt of feeling this was all her fault was and has been by far the most devastating aspect.

    Jesus Christ I did not set out to write a novels worth of unstructured and random rambling about this, my friend, and her family. So sorry for this scattered mess.

    Just for the record, I don’t think your situation is anywhere near my friend’s parents at all. That was an extreme case but brought it up to illustrate happy parents make happy kids and sticking shit out just for them generally is far worse than separating.

    I really hope that your wife gets the appropriate treatment to help her. For her sake, your sake, and your daughter. 🤍💛💚