Why is culture becoming less formal?

29 comments

1. Parents remember being smacked by their parents/grandparents for not using sir/ma’am, and they think that was dumb.

2. Part of teaching critical reasoning includes questioning whether symbolic things like formal dress requirements or formal forms of address actually have value.

3. In terms of clothing, the theory I’ve seen proposed by American fashion historians is that 1970s college students broke the tradition of wearing suits/ties/dresses to class and it slowly started to seep into the rest of the culture

   Edit

   The 1970s feminist movement (and the years of feminism leading up to it) had a direct connection to a shift in the clothing habits of women

4. Should note that most of the pictures and writings we have from history are from the upper classes, who could afford expensive photography and had the time to write. This gives the perception that the whole culture of times past was a lot more formal than it was, because being formal was part of being part of the upper class.

   Pictures especially used to be very big and very formal occasions. People would only get like 1 or 2 pictures of themselves in their lives in the 1800s, due to the cost and difficulty. So they were really formal and dressed up for them. It also took a long time to take a photo, like a half hour on a good day of standing very still. You couldn’t get a candid snapshot of someone having a good time hanging out with their friends, you had to purposely hold a pose for a literally painfully long time.

   If you want an example of how society might not be becoming more formal, look at old graffiti. It’s amazing how little graffiti changes. Not just old american graffiti from 100 years ago, but even old Roman graffiti from 2000 years ago sounds oddly similar to something you’d find scrawled on a school desk in the back of the room, once translated.

   That all being said, society is probably getting less formal, but not to the extent people seem to think.

5. Lack of formalism likely doesn’t have just one cause but I would attribute it to things like: American hyper-individualism encourages being not just a suit; rationally there are more important things to care about than the specific clothes someone has on so it has no weight against natural cultural drift; the world has been getting hotter and formal clothes have not been getting cooler; the world where people dressed like that is increasingly being associated with negatives like leaded gasoline, racism, and patriarchy; there’s no undemocratic force like the red scare promoting “traditional” clothes anymore; etc.

6. Why does it need to be so formal should also be a question.

   I think people are tired of the act of being formal all the time and are simply being in a state that is more comfortable for them.

   >If you see pictures from 100yr ago, everyone is wearing suits and dresses.

   The people who weren’t wearing such outfits, were not around people who could afford cameras. Notice how those pictures you also don’t normally see minorities or blue-collar workers either.

   >my students (I teach at a university) wear flip flops to class and I’ve had some students address me as “hey man” in emails.

   Does either of these things hinder their grades or work ethic?

7. What’s the point of formalities when we all come out of the womb naked?

8. We’re no longer looking to impress people we don’t know.

9. It isn’t just clothing, but even the way that we eat and our language. We shorten words or create phrases that make them easier to understand. Could you imagine going to a baseball game in a suit, tie and wool hat? The last game I went to it was over 90 degrees out. There’s no way!

10. 100 years ago, people couldn’t film themselves at any moment of the day and share it instantly with the entire world.

11. Probably because people are increasingly wondering if those things are actually important.

    Who is truly being hurt (or affected in any way) by you not wearing a suit in day-to-day life, or you wearing comfortable shoes to a university you’re paying to attend?

12. What is formal?

    Fashion changes. Both for everyday attire and in settings where you want to look presentable. Just like the doublet, the suit and tie will eventually be replaced. The younger men that I know who pay the most attention to their clothing when compared to their peers aren’t dressing like their grandparents. They treat white sneakers like I treat oxfords. How we dress is influenced by who we are and social trends.

13. >If you see pictures from 100yr ago, everyone is wearing suits and dresses.

    that’s because 100 years ago getting your picture taken was a huge deal.

    working people wore working people clothes, not fancy attire.

14. Flip flips are awesome. People should be comfortable. Especially if you’re on a large college campus which likely involves a lot of walking, bicycle/scooter or public transit.

    Also a lot of our major employers are really relaxing dress codes nowadays. You don’t need to be dressed to the 10s to sit in front of a computer screen and do Teams calls.

15. Society is becoming less hierarchical and more egalitarian. This has been happening for a long time. The way Bill Gates dresses and the way a high school teacher dresses is more or less the same. Compare this to the 19th century, where you could gather someone’s social status based on their clothes. You can still do that now, but it’s much less accurate.

    As for your students, this is totally a generational thing. Millennials and especially Gen Z value casual/egalitarian collaboration and commonly reject hierarchical structures. There are benefits to this, but that’s another topic. Suffice it to say that a hierarchical command chain is only one of many ways to collaborate. And what works in one era may not work in another. Millennials and Gen Z are used to quick communication. Hierarchical systems can cause unnecessary delays. Something I’ve appreciated in the younger Millennials and Gen Z’s that I’m beginning to manage is their technological resourcefulness. It breeds efficiency.

    With regards to what they’re wearing — they’re paying an arm and a leg to be there, so I think they deserve to dress for comfort as long as they aren’t giving a presentation or something like that.

16. Things change over time. There are still occasions you dress up for in American culture. You don’t need to dress in a formal matter to go to school but you do for a wedding.

17. Realistically, “formal” clothing is completely subjective. Everyone has their own definitions. Students wearing flipflops is just them being more comfortable. I’m actually shocked they call you hey man but it’s probably because they feel comfortable with you or you’re a younger professor

18. People value comfort, and comfortable clothing is much easier to produce than it used to be

19. I thought we saw photos of people being well dressed because photography was expensive and you better have on your nice clothes for photos.

20. It’s classist. Expecting students to afford a business wardrobe as a requirement for entry to school lecture is asinine. School in the USA is already insanely overpriced.

21. > I’ve had some students address me as “hey man”

    ​

    It’s Dr Hey man, PhD !

22. Being formal in an informal world is a waste of time.

    While email etiquette is important, who cares about what kind of shoes you wear to a lecture?

23. People had a lot fewer outfits back in the day, so your outfits had to be suitable in a lot of settings. I think as clothes got cheaper and people owned more outfits, fashion changed and more types of outfits became “acceptable.”

24. Change is constant. We don’t necessarily know why a given trend begins or ends at any specific time, but there’s no reason to think that any tendency will remain constant over time.

25. I don’t know the cause, but yesterday I wore a skirt, lace top, and hair bows out to get coffee and felt strange (though I think it was an awesome look). I love certain Japanese subculture fashions that involve dressing up up cutesy/fancy/in bright colors; but I wonder how I will be perceived if I begin dressing that way more

    I think making it socially acceptable to wear whatever you want is important, and to encourage self expression through clothes- fashion is an art form after all. Though I understand some people want simple and comfy.

    This is a super wild guess, but maybe more art education that includes fashion and other design fields would get people more interested.

    Another huge thing is cost- sweatpants and T-shirt is generally cheaper than a nice suit

    There’s an “enclothed cognition” study (Google it because I’m too lazy to link rn) showing that how you dress can effect performance- e.g wearing a doctors coat vs paint smock, or suit vs dressed down.

    Ok I like the comment about the 70s and women’s movements the best; but here are my thoughts anyways

26. I’ve noticed that too. But as I age and having a few pair of traditional slacks vs the more athletic or slim Chinos. I am beginning to prefer traditional slacks more and more.

    I feel like “an adult” when wearing those, and not a kid or young adult. Also traditional slacks are more comfortable in the important male areas.

    But this can be seen at vacation places that host “formal” night. Cruises do not even attempt to enforce dress nice nights. And to me its part of the fun. I get it you are on vacation. But you’re also on a vacation where you and everyone else on that ship is treated like lords and Ladys. So dress like one for a 2hr meal you bum.

27. Class structures are becoming significantly less rigid.

    People dressed and acted formally historically to portray that they were in a higher social class. That mentality is still somewhat there— people in general perceive someone who is slovenly or dirty as someone who is in a lower social class or someone that is morally deficit— but it’s significantly relaxed.

    Honestly, my favorite part of the pandemic is how office clothes have become much more relaxed as well.

28. Other side of the coin, I’m a student at a pretty nice liberal arts college in upstate NY.

    A lot of my professors also wear flip flops to class and email us like they’ve never used a computer. One of my professors is in his mid 60s and constantly misspells things in powerpoints, emails, and assignments. Another wears cargo shorts and T-shirts everyday. He only just stopped wearing flip flops because the weather got too chilly.

    I don’t think it’s a younger generation thing. I think its been that way for awhile.

29. Less formal? I’ll have you know I wore socks with my flip flops the other day.