Hey guys,I have been dating my GF for 4 years. We have both agreed that we want to get married eventually.
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3 years in, we started talking about marriage. I suggested let’s think through some important questions – what we are expecting from each other and the relationship, what is our reason to get married, what is our idea of a relationship, what are our parenting styles etc.
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She said these are useless questions since the answers change with time. I believe they change with time but there must be a discussion around these things. Some things should be acknowledged, brought to the conscious, and mutually aligned. We should be open to them changing as well and also can explicitly acknowledge changes happening in us. Maybe I’m an idealist?
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She completely blocked that topic from being discussed. She thought I was screening her and felt insulted. If I pressed the topic, it resulted in fights. I stopped asking and the even started believing there’s something wrong with me for having these questions.For the last year I thought through this stuff by myself. I worked on my emotional intelligence, understanding my feelings, refining my values, and inferring the dynamics of our relationships from our shared life. I have evolved so much in the last year. It was such a difficult and rich journey, but I did it all alone. She wasn’t a companion in this and has played no part in it.
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Eventually, I came around to realizing that these are important questions. I told her I won’t continue the relationship if she blocked these conversations. She freaked out and broke up with me. But an hour later she called me to apologize. She said she was acting like a teenager. She does want to figure out these things. But after a whole year.
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***Below section is optional to read -***
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*So great! We have been talking about these things now more openly, and I now have a talking-out-loud partner for this aspect of my life! I also realized that the answer to these questions is not only found by directly answering these questions, but to keep them in mind all the time, and infer them from our shared lives, and the incidents of our life.*
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*For example, she has been applying to postgrad colleges. Months later, I asked her why she didn’t ask for help, and she asked me why I didn’t offer to help. So I realised that she expects me to help, and also that she finds it difficult to ask for help. I also realised solving logistical issues was an expectation she had from me. Now I know, so I do. 🙂 I go an extra mile in offering because she finds it difficult to ask. In another conversation, I also understood why she finds it difficult to ask for help.*
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***Optional Section over***
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However, similar dismissing of my question happened again recently. She got accepted into a postgrad course in Europe. I calculated the loan amount for her. She hadn’t done it herself. I was worried that we haven’t planned around this giant financial burden we will have in our shared domestic life. I asked her what her plan is. We discussed the 3 logical options –
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1. She continues her career in Europe until he repays the loan and then comes back here.
2. She comes back right after the course is completed (but it will take longer to repay),
3. A hybrid of the above.
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I asked her what is the probability of each of these paths. She said this is not an important question because we can never know that with certainty. I agree, we can’t have certainty here but IMO we can make educated guesses based on past recruitment statistics of her college and talking to people. She gave me no reassurance that she knows what the ground reality of each path is. She kept blocking the question, I got frustrated and kind of said emphatically “I wanna know the probability so I will mentally prepare accordingly”. She told me to calm down before we can resume the conversation. I was surprised that she thought I was shouting. I don’t think I had raised my voice, I was being emphatic. Although I admit that I was frustrated and exasperated. Later in the conversation, she said I should stop overthinking.
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I was very offended when she told me to calm down. At that moment, I apologised, so we could continue the discussion and reach a logical conclusion. But I can’t stop thinking about how her attitude has been dismissive to how I think. As a result, I end up questioning myself.
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I realised 3 things –
1. She won’t be a think-out-loud partner for me. Which breaks my heart. I value being able to think out loud with someone. These aren’t topics that should trigger her or insult her. These are regular conversations in a relationship.
2. Also we don’t have the ability to reach satisfying conclusions on domestic matters.
3. I have to work on not doubting my convictions. I’ve to stop being a people pleaser.
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My question is –
1. Do you think this happens in all relationships often?
2. Do you think her not being my think-out-loud partner may cause issues consistently in our relationship?. Should I be okay with her not being my thinking-out-loud partner?
3. Do such conversations always end up in so much conflict and argument for all couples? Is there any way to keep these conversations and discussions productive and healthy?
4. Will we develop the ability to handle domestic issues like this better with time? We are just starting out.
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**TL;DR** \- My GF keeps dismissing my questions. When we started talking about getting married, I asked her what are her expectations from me or from the relationship, what is her reason to get married. She said these questions are unimportant. She is moving to another continent for postgrad, I asked her what is the probability she will come back in 2 years vs 5 years. She dismissed the question saying we can’t calculate it, leaving me clueless as to what to mentally and financially prepare for. It frustrates me and makes me question myself when she doest his. She is not my think-out-loud partner. How big of a relationship issue can this become? Can this be fixed and how?
7 comments
The vibe I get is that you’re very rigid in your thinking and your conversational style. It’s not that she doesn’t want to talk about these things with you in general, it’s that your style doesn’t really welcome input from her that isn’t 100% set in stone.
For example, during the marriage and children discussion, she said you were “screening” her. I’m guessing she means it felt like you were giving her a test. Did you share your own philosophies with her, or just ask her for hers? Did you have a give-and-take, or did you just want a fully-formed, peer-reviewed essay?
For example, my husband and I never did have children, but we could both tell you a lot about each other’s parenting philosophy–but I don’t think we ever had a Formal Parenting Philosophy Talk. It came up organically, talking about things our own parents did right or wrong and how that would influence our own decisions, talking about parenting decisions we admired in our friends, etc.
Now let’s jump to the new conversation. By your own description you lost your temper and raised your voice. You needed to be told to calm down. You didn’t “kind of shout.” You shouted. You demanded a mathematical number from her, which isn’t really what you need here. What you both need is what she *wants* to do. All of those options could potentially work, and knowing college stats doesn’t necessarily predict anything about her specific case.
If you want her to be a think-out-loud partner (a phrase you use so often that it sounds like it might be a buzzword from a specific book, though of course the meaning is obvious from context), you need to give her room to think out loud too. Right now you only want her input if it’s already perfectly composed and calculated.
> I got frustrated and kind of shouted “I wanna know the probability so I will mentally prepare accordingly”. She told me to calm down before we can resume the conversation. I was surprised that she thought I was shouting
so did you shout or not?
Aside from that I agree with the other comment that you seem very rigid about things. And she sounds kinda uncommitted and avoidant. Probably you’re just not very compatible where this is concerned. I think you want your relationship to be way more serious than she does and your pushing is probably driving her away more. It’s not wrong of you to want someone who will have a clear committal answer on whether she wants to marry you etc, but that’s not her.
I think you have some valid concerns, but also I wonder if you might be a little too intense.
Why does she feel like you’re screening her? Is that cause of her or do you think you could be creating that vibe with the way you approach these conversations?
If you expect flawless logic and reason from your relationship you will be frustrated and disappointed. You’re asking for a mathematical figure to an emotional decision she needs to make.
That’s not very helpful.
You imagine these “thinking-out-loud” sessions like two professors before a giant chalk board, solving a complicated equation together with logic and reason and accuracy. But relationships are more like playing freestyle jazz together. Life is not a neat and tidy math problem. Neither are people.
Do you think this happens in all relationships often?
**No.**
Do you think her not being my think-out-loud partner may cause issues consistently in our relationship?. Should I be okay with her not being my thinking-out-loud partner?
**It already has caused consistent issues. This will not change. You should be be OK with something that doesn’t work for you.**
Do such conversations always end up in so much conflict and argument for all couples? Is there any way to keep these conversations and discussions productive and healthy?
**No. Yes, but both partners need to have the tools and willingness to have those kinds of conversations.**
Will we develop the ability to handle domestic issues like this better with time? We are just starting out.
**Maybe.**
**Overall, the big issue seems to just be that you’re incompatible in ways that don’t have compromises. This is how it goes, sometimes, OP, and you can’t force it to be something else.**
Do you talk to her in the same manner in which you posted this?
Your questions to her are valid, regarding both marriage and continued studies. And her shutting you out instead of discussing with you is not a good sign
The responses here are pretty bizarre as well. If you were the woman in this, and you described how your boyfriend is not discussing the future and avoiding important topics that require planning, they’d be telling you to be weary. That these are “yellow flags” or “red flags”. The boyfriend would get chewed out for not being able to answer marriage related questions