Update: thank you to everyone who has commented. This post has gotten a lot more attention than I expected and I’d like to reply to every comment but it’s tough to get to them all. I am reading them all, however.
(m 27) I’ve been trying to improve myself lately because I seriously want to experience a romantic relationship for the first time in my life, and the advice people almost always give me is “Work on yourself. Forget the need to get into a relationship as soon as possible. Getting comfortable in your own skin, building confidence and getting better at interacting with people can be the key.”
However, it can be very difficult for me to stay focused on bettering myself because I still find myself getting jealous of couples I see and the idea of people being sexually active when I am not. I’m well aware that this is incel-like behavior, and I would like to unlearn it. I just don’t understand how I’m supposed to forget about what I want out of life while simultaneously pushing myself out of my comfort zone at every opportunity. That feeling of needing to be loved lingers in the back of my mind no matter what I do. Is something wrong with me? I don’t want to be an incel.
TLDR – How can I cut out my incel-like behavior and focus solely on improving myself when I find it very difficult to put aside my feelings of longing for romance?
31 comments
Feeling jealousy is a natural human emotion. Plenty of guys don’t get women easily, especially on reddit. The term incel is mostly for guys that say toxic stuff or lash out at others instead of trying to take action in their life, and honestly its more of an internet term. Def try to not to stay in the internet too much if you want a social life.
Feeling frustration isn’t incel behavior as long as you’re not directing that frustration towards misogyny. An incel is someone who would, for example, put no effort into self improvement and then blame women as a whole for his lack of a sexual/romantic life.
When you feel frustration from seeing couples, the best thing you can do is use that frustration as motivation for further self improvement. If you keep at it, soon you’ll find love and be just as happy as those couples.
It’s okay to be unhappy about the fact that you want to date people and that’s not currently happening. Disappointment and sadness are feelings that emotionally healthy people have sometimes.
Focus on the things that you enjoy doing. Focus on the things that you can control. You’ll probably be happy at least most of the time if you do that.
Develop friendships as a transitional stage to finding romance.
A decent amoung of desire for intimacy/connection can be met with normal, platonic friendships (same sex or opposite sex).
So if you are actively self-improving and you still don’t feel ready to attempt dating, try to make more friends. This should make you feel a bit more socially comfortable and more confident, which you can parlay into dating efforts.
>However, it can be very difficult for me to stay focused on bettering myself because I still find myself getting jealous of couples I see and the idea of people being sexually active when I am not. I’m well aware that this is incel-like behavior
It’s not. The facetious people on the internet have gaslighted you into thinking that having basic human emotions as a man means you’re a deranged member of a hate movement and the only remedy to that is to reject your entitled ideas (like “I’d like to be loved by a human once in my lifetime”) and go through decades of profound self-torturing character transformation with no specified endpoint.
Fuck that. You are a human. You don’t have to “focus solely on improving yourself”, and the need to be loved is not a patriarchal enitilement yadda buzzword yadda, it’s called being a human fucking being. Hold your head up high, get therapy if you think you’ll be happier with it, surround yourself with people and content that doesn’t make you feel like shit. Go bouldering and meet some homies. I love you bro. I love you because you are me and I love myself. We deserve better than this fucking garbage.
Twitter feminism is poison.
Dude, I just want to give you the biggest hug ever right now.
Good on you for being self-aware and taking time to consider your feelings and where they come from instead of having snap/gut reactions. It’s not wrong to experience the feelings you’re describing, jealousy and frustration are completely natural. It’s what you do with those feelings that really define you.
My best advice to you when these feelings pop up (like when you see a happy couple) is to challenge yourself by trying to get into a mindful state. That is, don’t block yourself from feeling the negative emotions, but instead try to mentally step outside yourself and observe the physical sensations they are causing. Take some deep breaths, keep calm. Once that initial frustration subsides, tell yourself (think to yourself): “They seem really happy, and I am happy for them, I don’t know them but I hope things work out for the best”.
You won’t feel like it’s true… at first. But with time and the large dose of self-awareness you seem to have given yourself you will get there.
I’ll end on this, finding love is hard but you deserve to find it. Be sincere, be kind and be empathetic. You’ll get there friend.
It’s not wrong to yearn after romantic love. Most people want that, to be honest. That you’re introspective and self aware, is a really good sign that you’re not letting incel-mentality control you. Generally speaking, how would you rate your ability to relate to other people?
No More Mr Nice Guy is a great book specifically for this.
I think a perspective shift could help here? Jealousy (or I think more accurately envy in this case) is telling you something that is important to you and you want in your life. Spend some time reflecting on what it is about the perceived relationship dynamic that you are longing for. Is it physical intimacy? Is it a deeper human connection? Is it the feeling of security? Etc. This can help you better understand your values as it applies to a future relationship and may be able to help you discern in those moments of jealousy what specifically you are longing for (or what need isn’t being met). Find other ways to fulfill that need from the perspective of caring for yourself and eventually the right person will come along
Also, be kind to yourself. I don’t think this is incel behavior at all. Jealousy is a very human emotion that is totally normal to feel and you’re certainly not alone in this situation!
I think it’s important to remind yourself that a large part of the problem has to do with the loss of third spaces for people to casually socialize. It’s legitimately hard out there to date. And that’s largely due to the lack of opportunities to meet people in free, non-obligatory environments.
First of all, accept that you will always have a longing for romance. Getting to a point where you have other things going on is the key though. Of course you will think about it all the time if you just lay about your home for example.
I’m in my 30s and it took me a while, but I essentially made peace with the idea that I might be alone forever. BTW, I am tall, reasonably attractive, I make really good money, women think I’m funny, I have a strong social life and lots of hobbies. I don’t really know why I’m single and I do get lonely sometimes, but I found that there are other things in life and I could find happiness and fulfillment without romantic love if I had to. I guess I want it still, but I don’t need it. That has made all the difference for me.
Envy is a natural response of being human and it’s totally normal to feel jealous about something others have that we don’t.
You’re aware of the problem yourself which is a very major breakthrough for your behaviour and I congratulate you for that. 😊
Focusing on yourself more and not caring about what others think about you is one of the keys to better happiness. Love yourself more before you can love others. It sounds cliche but you can do it and stay strong! Good luck! ❤️
So right there. That’s the work that needs to be done. Your anger, the upset feelings. It’s suppressing the real feelings of sadness and it’s coming from a lot of not helpful ideas about the world and personal views.
Start working on yourself, start going to therapy, do self work, work on your mindset, work on what views you hold
Hey, I’m a socially awkward woman who found it hard to date. Your feelings are definitely normal. It’s really hard to date and meet people. People can be superficial or flaky. If your social skills are a bit rusty, it can be a lot harder. It might take time to find someone who you like and who likes you back. I got rejected many times (race, being awkward, not being attractive enough, etc.) before finding someone who liked me back.
Making friends, having a pet, and talking to family helps with loneliness while you’re dating. Expose yourself to as many different social situations as possible to work on your social skills.
I would recommend finding hobbies that are more mixed gender (ex. running groups can be mixed gender). Gaming a lot will usually make it harder to find a partner (although some people have found partners via games).
Just remember that you might be rejected. You might not be everyone’s type or they may just want to be friends. It’s normal to feel upset and angry about that but try not to let it stop you from meeting and connecting with new people. Also, if you do have female friends they might be open to giving you advice on dating.
Also, consider therapy as well if you can afford it. It’s always helpful to have someone to vent to and get advice from.
I really hope you find a partner and feel better about yourself. 🙂
I feel like what men in your position are misunderstanding or lacking is what is ACTUALLY attractive to a woman about men in general -which is confidence and respectful behavior combined.
I think you can practice, engaging with women or interacting with them with the goal of trying to go on a date while also working on yourself.
Look women in the eye, speak in a straightforward but gentle tone. Be GENUINE (dont be cocky/arrogant or lie about who you are). Show interest in her as a person and dont be hyper-focused on the endgame of getting laid. Be reliable, show up on time, call or text if you are running late. Basically be courteous of her time. Be a gentlemen (open doors, dont talk over her or interrupt her). Women like and appreciate this. I don’t know who you are or what you look like but if you’re not the stereotypical hot guy or bad boy you’re only acceptable fall back is to be a genuine and respectful gentlemen.
And if a woman goes out with you be honest with her about where you were at in your life and that you are working on yourself and you’re working on changing your mindset. Even if none of those dates pan out at least you’re getting practice while you’re also working on yourself.
Incel is just a way for people to dismiss your feelings to make themselves perceived as superior. VERY few people in this world truly care to understand WHY guys turn into incels, and would rather shame for self-gratification.
Stop caring about the opinions of people who’ve never been you or had your struggles, and focus on how to improve.
That being said, before any work is done, you should first give yourself some credit for at least recognizing the issue and wanting to change. True incels rarely get to that stage. Once you have forgiven yourself, the work will come and it will stick.
Lack of self-worth creates jealousy, and thus the cause of incel like-behaviors.
So do the inner work. Stop comparing yourself. Read a book or two on self-esteem, self-worth, and emotional intelligence (to expand your self-awareness).
You’ll come out far more attractive, with a stronger sense of self, and a core to not be fucked with.
When you know you’re worthy, deserving, capable, and you love yourself — you won’t have incel behaviors, you’ll have integrated man behaviors.
You respect yourself. You’re assertive. You can speak up for yourself. You can move towards the unknown, and learn new skills in the uncertainty.
Whether it’s social, dating, intimacy, sex, and self-discovery – skills you need to live a life worth living..
Good luck
You need to focus more on something else that’s positive. Your mindset comes from the fact that you think relationships/sex = pure personal fulfillment.
That said do you also think about how lucky you are to have a place to live? How you have ability to access and use the internet? How you can get food relatively easily? How you have friends? Humans live off wanting more, but more is also never enough. Try to be content with what you have, and understand that your life won’t be perfect even if you find a great GF.
Unpopular opinion: you don’t have to fix everything about yourself before you do something. I think you should focus on the big stuff like self love, confidence, and stability, but a lot of the time you and your partner can grow together. As long as you don’t put that responsibility of things you want to change about yourself on your partner, you should be fine! The best way to build confidence is to do stuff out of your comfort zone. You will learn as you go.
start by cutting out activity in incel communities. or just places in general other guys complain about women. when you stop having those ideal pushed into your mind constantly you start to see the ones that are just silly. remember to separate people online from real people, ideas and ideals are often exaggerated online , people in reddit communities are bubbles that dont always relate to the real world as much as the people interested in talking about them do. Ask yourself how you mother feel on certain topics, sometimes some of them are reasonable others not so much, be critical of all them.
> I’ve been trying to improve myself
This is already antithetical to incels. You don’t forget what you want, you just realise you’re obsessing about it, and that itself is what’s hurting your attempts at getting what you want. Spend some time actively enjoying smaller achievements. With love, annoyingly, it’s when you don’t search that you find. Let it happen, be cool and patient. You’ll be fine.
1. Stop using the term “incel” – people shouldn’t be judged or labeled based on their ability to get laid.
2. Define the goals you have for yourself. Be specific. Don’t say “I want to get in shape” say “I want to run a 5k marathon in three months and get my weight down to (or up to) X.
3. Set social goals. Learn to dance. Learn a language. Take a cooking class. Do things in a group setting so you can interact with people.
4. How’s your career / education? Do you have a four-year degree? No? Go back to school and take night classes. Yes? Get certificates for your field to improve your career. Set yourself up for success by making plans for your future self.
5. Get a therapist. A talk therapist. I prefer CBT but go with someone you like that will talk to you and not try to medicate your problems away.
I understand completely. I do some of the same things. However, I’m just genuinely a kind person so I forget about it once I start actually communicating with people.
You sound very self aware, which is a great trait. You’d be surprised how many adults struggle with loneliness. It’s not easy to make friends as an adult. I know you’re referencing a romantic relationship, but making friends is a step toward that.
I’d recommend taking some classes, something hobby related where you can meet like minded people. Whether it’s a photography class, painting class, music, woodworking, etc. There’s a community out there for everyone. At the very least you’ll fee more confident to maybe tackle the online dating scene.
The idea of people being sexually active when you are not. This is the biggest red flag in your comments.
It’s not the sentiment, it’s the way it’s phrased. Jealousy is human, envy is human. The part in question is what you think people deserve, what you think you are owed. Even if you were married, dating, engaged, you might still find yourself going through periods where you aren’t sexually active.
Frankly I’d suggest practicing a loving kindness meditation. Trying to include a link to one that popped up on Google.
https://www.letss.org.au/images/Loving_Kindness_Meditation_Worksheet_edited.pdf
It’s a way to practice and build empathy.
The correct answer is working on yourself and removing all the shit habits from your life. This directly impacts the quality of your life and people will notice that.
Go to the gym and get stacked pumping iron. Eat healthy but good tasting food (YouTube has tons of info for free with guided steps). Secure a flow of income and just practice talking to people. You’ll not only become more attractive, but most importantly, approachable too.
You got this, king!
Part of building confidence is learning how to interact with women, it’s a skill, which you seem to understand. You need to start small and build up your skillset and repertoire to feel more comfortable. The key is to break it down to small and even insignificant pieces you can create occasions to practice frequently. Doing this you’ll naturally discover your gaps and you can work on them in manageable chunks. Do this methodically and deliberately and you’ll feel more confident and create more chances for yourself and look more attractive to women.
One important thing to keep in mind at all times when interacting with people is that no one owes you anything, and you owe them nothing (generally speaking).
Your life is your own, and so are your emotions.
Taking ownership of certain aspects of your life (health, happiness, money, and entertainment) make you more appealing/attractive to others because it allows them to freely be themselves around you without having to spend their time/energy babysitting you.
First, it’s never easy to move past your bitterness as it stems from your internalized insecurity. It’s a huge step forward for you to recognise these issues, wanting to change and wanting to improve yourself.
I think that first it’s a good start to realize that having an inactive sexlife or being single is normal and doesn’t prove that you’re lesser than anyone else. Low selfesteem is difficult to build up but the more you’re willing to accept yourself the more you’re going to be happy with yourself. Happy people give off nice vibes and are more approachable usually
Being in a relationship isn’t a goal or a reward but something that usually happens naturally when both parties can coexist together. Don’t blame yourself for being single, don’t see other couples as “they’ve succeeded, not me”. As soon as you get rid of the competitiveness mindset and the “high value/low value” mindset you’re golden
I’m sorry if this came off as really rambly and off. I genuinely hope it’s going well for you and I wish you the best!
Don’t forget anything. You acknowledged those emotions are wrong, that’s basically it. You can’t control what you feel. Keep going and it’ll go away eventually, seriously you’re doing great!
You have a need for sex, which is unmet. That’s okay. You feel what you feel, do you not?
I’m not saying it is right or wrong. But it’s okay.
People need love.