Hi Reddit
I have a problem: I feel I cannot connect to women. I’ve just read ‘The Charisma Myth’ by Cabane (thanks /r/consulting). So far, I have no problem connecting with other blokes and I can get them to open up and talk for a while. With women, I can’t get them to open up and talk about themselves.
Generally, the opening is really easy with guys and girls – compliment them for their appearance (avoid commenting on their body), introduce yourself, then ask about what brought them there to find a topic to latch onto. However, the meat is the hard part.
For example, here’s a conversation I had earlier.
Her: “I’m planning a trip around Asia”
Me: “That’s so cool. Where are you off to?”
Her: “To China, then Singapore, then Indonesia”.
Me: “Nice. So what’s on the itinerary?”
Her: “I don’t know”.
Or:
Me: “So you’re a part of the ski club”
Her: “Yeah”
Me: “So what got you into skiing”
Her: “I don’t ski. I just joined to party”.
Me: “Is there a particular reason why you don’t ski”
Her: “I don’t like it”.
Me: “Why do you feel that”
Her: “just because”.
I feel I hit a brick wall with the answers and I don’t know where to go after this. I don’t think I’m perfect with guys, but it’s more forgiving and finding common interests are easier. Perhaps I’m latching on the wrong things.
I never really partied at uni, and I mostly just go to the gym where most people are guys and volunteer where I’m surrounded by older lonely individuals. I do regret it as I don’t think I properly developed my social skills and instead developed my academic credentials and professionalism. I do have some friends of the opposite sex, but not many and for them they take the skill for granted so they don’t have much advice. I think some practice getting out more may help.
My goals are to be a more effective communicator, to expand my social circle and perhaps find a partner along the way. Advice?
16 comments
Advice? I don’t know. Perhaps just tell them everything you know about one topic. Mansplaining seems to work for some.
Sorry, lemme chime in here. I’ve found The Charisma Myth to be an atrocious book. If you watch the author’s YouTube videos (Olivia Fox Cabane), you’d see she has zero charisma and speaks in monotone. I refuse to take advice from an author about charisma who has no charisma.
Not much advice, but just a comment. In the second conversation, you sound judgemental. People don’t need a reason to not ski and they don’t have to explain to a stranger why they don’t like it. I would disengage from this conversation because I’d think you’re about to try and convince me to ski, which I already told you I don’t care about. Asking questions is good, interrogating, not so much.
I think what’s happening for you is that you need to not just ask things, but actually have things to offer in your conversation. Talk about how she should ski sometime and that you’ve really been enjoying it, or talk about the countries you’ve been to or want to go to, not everything needs to be a question.
I think you’re having a bit more trouble because most women will likely think you’re trying to chat them up, can’t really blame them either considering all things.
My first thought in these dialogues is that they don’t feel a lot like conversations to me? There’s a threshold (and I think it’s individual from person to person) where getting asked a lot of questions in sequence without some reciprocal offering of information starts to feel like an interview or even an interrogation. Try offering some information about yourself – oh, I went to China a couple of years ago/I’d love to see Indonesia/I’ve never been abroad, or I love to ski/I’d never do that I hate the cold too much/I get it, I’d much rather stay in and drink hot chocolate – rather than peppering with questions and keeping yourself a mystery.
I think this is especially important if you’re a guy talking to women, because there’s a power dynamic there to be conscious of, and asking for lots of information without offering any about yourself is sometimes a power play. (And thus can come off as potentially threatening, even when you don’t mean it that way.)
I have the same problem except I can’t even connect with other guys or at least I don’t put effort into it.
I can at least offer some advice in these two scenarios. In the first scenario, you found a topic she likes, “traveling.” Instead of focusing on her itinerary you might have asked about her other trips, shared some of your travel stories, shared information that you knew (even if wrong) about the places she mentioned, or make an assumption about the girl being spontaneous based on her loose plans. When you say you latch on, it seems like you have a hard time branching off and switching topics.
Second scenario, latching on to skiing when the girl obviously isn’t interested in that topic. She mentioned partying and I’m sure you probably noted a twinkle in her eye when she said that, easy branch point.
A couple takeaways: branching off conversation, sharing a bit of yourself, and discussing about topics they have interest in.
First convo, why not delve into why, how, etc.
I definitely feel like you could communicate if you communicate more about yourself than asking endless questions.
Sometimes you just need to share a bit about yourself so the other person can generate questions through curiosity.
Overall, women are more guarded when talking to random men because they don’t know what your intentions are. some men are creepy or dangerous, or will misinterpret a woman being nice to mean that the woman is romantically interested in them. The biggest thing is to make women feel comfortable.
I don’t know anything about that Charisma book, but people don’t like it when it feels like they’re being questioned/interrogated. Instead of just asking questions, maybe add in things about yourself to the conversation to give people something to connect to and become comfortable with you.
For example, for the first conversation maybe respond by talking about places you’ve been, or places you want to go in order to keep the conversation moving.
In the second convo, once the girl said that she doesn’t like to ski, you shouldn’t have continued to question her about it. She doesn’t know you. You could talk about why you think skiing is fun, etc. or just switch topics at that point. You could move to asking more general questions, like where shes from, what she’s studying at uni, etc. in order to get a feel for whether she’s interested in getting to know you.
But again , keep in mind that women are simply less likely to open up to strangers. And if you get the sense shes not interested in talking then move on. And also be honest with yourself about whether you actually want to become friends with that woman or if you’re viewing them romantically, because women can usually pick up on that. If they think you’re only talking to them out of attraction, but they aren’t attracted to you, then they probably won’t engage much
You made a mistake by asking “Why don’t you like it?” It’s just personal taste, and she does not need a reason. You made it sound like there is something wrong with her for not liking something.
I saved this post from 4-5 years ago, knowing it might come in handy one of these days.
https://www.reddit.com/r/socialskills/s/wFjSCGD4cn
It might help.
I got you. So great job asking open-ended questions, like the one about her itinerary. If they are answering shortly then take a second to ask yourself why. When she said that she didn’t know, was her enthusiasm sane since the start of the conversation? If her energy remained, you could mention something that you would want to see there, or even a factoid about one of those places. If they look like they’re ready to spend more time on the topic, you can go a little deeper by asking about their preferences. “Are you excited?” “Is there another place you’d rather visit?”
If her energy changes: if you can “read the room” you might pick up on clues about what to do next. I personally don’t like being asked a lot of questions. If I don’t offer more details, it’s because I’m done sharing information about that topic with you. But if you change the subject, you might notice that my attention comes back to our conversation. Read the body language. If she turns away from you, or looks distracted by something else (even her phone) then she’s probably not willing to put more time into that conversation.
Know what sometimes things take time to build. You can follow up on this later, when she returns from her trip. Pro advice: if you see her after she returns, don’t lead with that topic if you have something current to chat about. Keep stuff in your pocket if you want to increase there length of your conversation.
Try these audiobooks:
Way of The superior man – David Deida
No More Mr nice Guy – Robert Glover
Just become the man that is undeniably amazing and you will start to connect more. Those books will help you maybe not directly, but indirectly
If there was one sentence I wish I knew growing up when it comes down to women, it would be “treat her like she’s your younger sister”.
At first this may seem almost disrespectful, but in practise it’s quite the opposite.
Maintain the fun jokiness an older brother would have also appreciating her boundaries as a woman.
Back when I worked as a P.T. I found I got on better with the women than the guys following this way of thinking, and this is coming from an aspie who was probably the most anxious and unpopular kid at school.
These conversations read like interrogations. Rif off what she says for sec.
You: What is in the itinerary (one question too many imo)
Her: I don’t know
You: I have always wanted to to buy a pair of tailored pants at the market in China. I went to school with a girl who had some and they fit so perfect and she said they were cheap. So you think you will walk in any markets like that?
You: why don’t you like skiing (honestly super prying question to far)
Scrap this entirely
Instead:
You: I hear you, skiing is too cold anyway. The lodge really is where it’s at. I love when they have live music at bar. Do they ever have live music at your ski club?
Asking questions is also my default mode when it comes to keeping conversations flowing, but respectfully, your questions are awful and it comes across more like an interrogation than a conversation.
Convo #1: in her mind, she probably already told you about the outlines of her itinerary, you’re just forcing the flow into a dead end by asking about it again, even if you might be wondering about something else. I might rephrase it to something more specific like “Any particular cities you might want to visit?” or ask about the duration of the trip, etc.
Convo #2: this one imo is more egregious. She just told you the thing about ski club that she enjoys, why are you insisting on asking about the unenjoyable part?
Convo is a process of give-and-take, for me asking questions is easy because most people find it easier to talk about themselves, but you should also reveal a little about yourself to balance the exchange, or else it would come across like an interrogation. Some of it is probably just picking up on subtle cues, either about what they might want to talk about, or more importantly *whether* they want to talk. It’s possible that you’re treating conversation like an on/off switch—you have a conversation mode and an off mode—when it’s better thought of as a dimmer switch—conversation starts off cold and distant and warms up gradually. People warm up when they feel comfortable and safe, and part of being comfortable and safe is feeling like they can leave the conversation at any point during the warm up.