Tldr; My pessimistic girlfriend of one year threatened insanity when we had a 5 hour long conversation where I asked her to occasionally (when we’re having casual conversations) sprinkle in some positive replies so I don’t feel bad from the constant negativity. (She will respond to things like ‘have a good day!’ With ‘I won’t’ for example, and literally crap on every thing I say in a conversation).
She told me she already has been being less negative this whole time since I met her, blamed me for not noticing, threatened literal insanity if she had to change anymore, and generally acted in a way I did not like without apologising.
Any advice is appreciated!
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So my girlfriend of one year has *many* mental health issues and she is a very pessimistic person. I’m okay with this so long it isn’t incessant and we can just talk comfortably in eachothers company. But unfortunately more and more over time, it has been overwhelmingly negativd.
For example, I’ll ask her about something I find interesting about her, like a hobby she does, she will respond with ‘meh it’s nothing special, im not even good at it, it’s not even a good hobby’. Just an example, it’s not always related to her. Sometimes she’ll crap on things other people like and state her opinion as fact. You get the picture, just almost every response is a negative one and it kills the conversation. It also makes me feel apprehensive of sharing random things with her, I’m afraid of being judged and can’t talk freely.
My request was that she tone this down, not to completely take away all negativity, but to sprinkle in some positive comments in with it.
So we had a 5 hour long talk about it, essentially what it came down to was me asking if she could try to change the way she acts to me just a little bit, sprinkle in some positivity with the negativity, nothing extreme, and I don’t want her to not feel comfortable with being negative about anything anymore, but purely in casual conversations, I want us to talk in a way that isn’t only negative. I still want her to vent to me, to come to me with problems, to express negative opinions etc etc, I just don’t want everything mildly positive I say to be shot down with some dismissive language and an ‘eh’.
She had a few problems with this-
1. She said changing herself is fake, that she doesn’t want to change herself in any way. That in a relationship you’re supposed to accept all your partners flaws and not want to change anything about them.
2. She told me she already has been toning down the negativity this entire time, and was hurt that I didn’t realize that and see the effort she was making (since the day I met her).
3. She said if she had to change herself more, to be any more positive than the apparently strong amount she is now, she would *literally* go insane and lose her life. Her mental health would not be able to cope with her being so ‘fake’ to me. She said she would try it but that that ending would be inevitable, 100%, essentially threatening me with ruining her life by asking her to do this.
4. She told me she cut herself off from everybody in her life because she didn’t want to act fake with them, told me she ‘thought I could be herself around me but I guess not’.
To be clear, I don’t want to change who she is. I clarified probably 10+ times that
1. I don’t want her to stop *all* negativity, I want her to be able to vent to me at times and have that space, it’s just hard when it’s incessant when I’m just trying to have a conversation
2. I don’t want to change who she is, the only way I want her to change is in relation to how she speaks to me. I don’t want her to repress her emotions, I just want her to control her words to a small extent. She said she could not and that it was wrong of me to ask that.
At several points in the talk, I noticed her become more passive aggressive, lash out, project and be hypocritical, tell me I didn’t understand her or else I wouldn’t be asking for this, told me I was guilt tripping by saying if she doesn’t change I’ll remain unhappy and then proceeded to tell me how (very very) hurt she was from this, and more. I also noticed her being more manipulative.
The entire time I kept a calm head, repeatedly reassuring her I understood but I just needed her to try to make this work (before she said she’d go insane), repeatedly clarified to make sure I’m not misunderstanding, told her how much I appreciated her.
And every time I felt I had done something wrong in some way, I held myself accountable for that. I apologised every time I genuinely thought that I did something wrong. She did not apologise for anything, not once. When I pointed out once that her being passive aggressive doesn’t help, and she did it again, she acknowledged that it didn’t help but didn’t apologise and did it anyway.
She also told me she thinks *she* actually is the one who carries conversations between us, and that I am the one that makes things awkward by occasionally sending smiley emojis.
So now I’m leaning very heavily to breaking up, but I would please like some second opinions. Do you think this is toxic behavior? Should I break up with her and if so, what the hell can I say to her to not hurt her more? I mentioned breaking up a couple of times but she didn’t seem to take it seriously.
Thank you for reading.
ETA: I really appreciate all the advice I’m getting, thank you all. The more the better so I don’t feel like I’m making a dumb decision. I’ll reply to comments asking questions but might be a bit repetitive to thank everybody else individually, but genuinely, thank you for your input and replies. I agree with much of what you’re saying.
38 comments
You’re incompatible. Just call it that and leave it be.
She’s been really clear about this behavior being central to how she sees herself, and how she understands her place in the world. For you, this perspective is a toxic and unhappy one. It’s bringing out the worst in you. It’s making you a shitty partner. You need to get out before these bad habits and perspectives become too deeply ingrained in you.
Misery loves company — and validation. You don’t want to be in her company, and you cannot in good conscience validate this behavior any longer.
Don’t give in to the urge to judge her as a person. It’s always tempting to think the worst of the person we want to dump, but it’s not necessary. Just understand her as “not the person for me”.
Hmm.
So many sides to this. I will say that “I thought I could be myself around you but I guess not” is extremely manipulative and gives me bad vibes. As does the idea that changing herself would be fake.
I would say your instincts are good, you deserve to feel like your partner cares about how they treat and affect you with their words.
I would be honest and straightforward. You ARE going to hurt her feelings but that doesn’t make you a bad person.
“I don’t find myself enjoying the time I spend with you anymore. I understand you aren’t comfortable changing, so I’d like to break up so we can find people neither of us have to change for. “
You need to get out of this. She’ll drag you down with her.
Also, gonna call bullshit on this:
>She told me she cut herself off from everybody in her life because she didn’t want to act fake with them
because the truth is far more likely that she ran them all off with her behavior and this is the narrative she’s spinning for herself so she doesn’t have to face reality.
> She said changing herself is fake, that she doesn’t want to change herself in any way. That in a relationship you’re supposed to accept all your partners flaws and not want to change anything about them.
> She told me she cut herself off from everybody in her life because she didn’t want to act fake with them, told me she ‘thought I could be herself around me but I guess not’.
Sounds like she is very unwell, and is making being unwell a part of who she is instead of trying to do anything to help herself. She’s wallowing, and pushing away anyone who wants better for her.
Is she pursuing any kind of treatment or management for her many mental health issues?
“Hey! I think you’re great, but I don’t enjoy our relationship. I think we’ll both be happier being truer to ourselves with other people.”
That’s when she’ll give you a bunch of anger, and pointed silence, and changing the subject, and explanations of all the things you’ve done wrong, and badmouthing you to mutuals. But none of this will be as bad as it will be in one, or two, or five years when it invariably happens then. Save yourself the time. Good luck!
You can date someone else who is more “positive” in the ways you need. If she is always like this- maybe she won’t change just because you ask her to.
You are too young to tie this millstone to your neck. Move on to someone more stable.
I’m not sure if its toxic but I wouldn’t be able to take living with a person like this. This is soulsucking, I honestly would go mad.
She does not have to change for anyone else but a consequence of her behaviour is that many people do not enjoy interacting with her and they will limit their contact.
She does not currently seem to be able to see the benefits of toning down her negative responses both socially (in that it would put less of a burden on her relationships) and emotionally (there’s a reason why therapy often works with positive affirmations, getting back to the reality of the moment, etc – and afaik it’s been proven that a constant active focus on negativity (including talking negatively about everything) will make you feel more negative, creating a vicious cycle). The way you describe your conversation it doesn’t sound like she’s very capable in general of reflecting on her own behaviour. While again that is her right, you can’t force her, it *is* a valid reason to not want to be in a relationship with someone.
TLDR: It is not unreasonable at all to a) want a partner who can reflect on their own behaviour, and b) to have a partner who you feel adds something positive to your life.
Google covert narcissism.
I was married to a person like this for 17 long years. It will take a toll on your mental health and drain you emotionally and physically. Especially if the person doesn’t see that it is an issue or that they could improve things with therapy together or separate. I’d never tell a person what they should do, but if you keep going as is, there will be no good coming from it. Bringing kids into this brings havoc to their emotional well-being as well.
She sounds exhausting. I’m tired of her just from reading this. I grew up with an entire family who did this. Get out now while you still can.
Sounds like an emotional vampire.
This sounds soooo draining,
Leave. Y’all ain’t compatible. Just honesty. It wont change.
Just reading this was exhausting, let alone living with it. She sounds like an energy vampire. Anyone that replies to “have a good day” with “I won’t” is an contrarian jerk who’s really looking to bring everyone down into her misery. Absolutely not. Life is too short and hard already to share it with someone determined to make it even worse. Her mental issues are her responsibility to deal with and no excuse to rain on your parade all day, every day.
I wasn’t in a relationship with someone like this, but definitely a friendship (and yep, I was her only actual friend). I do think this is toxic behavior and she needs to make an effort again in therapy; and if she’s not willing, I think it might be best for you to reconsider this relationship.
Even as someone who was in the friend position in this situation, it was EXHAUSTING. I’d wake up to 25 texts (all of them small novels) of her complaining, being negative, and all-around just generally unhappy with her life. Whatever I suggest, she’d already tried and gave up. When I requested boundaries or to even just lower the volume of texts, she’d agree but then start it right back up again a few days later. I never felt I was having a conversation even; I was being talked AT, not talked TO.
I find it worrying that she thinks being positive is fake. Does that mean she only knows how to be negative and miserable, all the time? It truly sounds like she needs help, and you can’t be her only sounding board. I distanced myself from my friend and it even helped my own mental health, because the constant negativity was bringing me down with her. After a million conversations and explanations, I realized nothing was going to go through. It hurt to leave, but I feel so much better now.
Ask yourself this, my dear
If she believes that in a relationship, you shouldn’t want to change anything about your partner, why doesn’t she accept that needing a break from constant toxic negativity is part of who YOU are and shouldn’t need to be changed? Why does her comfort matter more than yours?
She’s struggling with her mental health, and I get that, but not being willing to make an effort to reframe her mindset, even for her girlfriend, gets my shoulders up to my ears. Please break up! I think it would be best for both of you.
I can see both sides of it. On the one hand, you probably don’t want every response or interaction with her to have negative commentary. There are probably things you like or wish to celebrate and would like her to join in on with the same feeling. On the other hand, I can see that if her core personality is “glass half empty” it can feel fake and performative for her to give you dishonest fake-happy responses if that is not what she truly feels. She’s right in the sense that you want to be your authentic self with your partner and remove the mask you have to wear for society.
All that being said, it seems like you are not compatible and you both would be better off dating people more suited to your personalities and needs.
You two just spend your adolescent years being told, over and over and over again, that you should just be yourself and that “you should never change yourself for a relationship.” But now you’re growing up, getting into your 20’s, and that’s the stage of like where one slowly learns that it’s more complicated than that, and that there may be pieces of you that will make it difficult for someone to be in a relationship with you, or that make you incompatible with the kind of person you want to be with, and you have to decide whether you want to keep those parts of you because they’re important and define who you are as a person, or whether it may be worth it to fix or change them so that you can have the type of relationship you want.
At the very least, you two aren’t compatible; you’ve identified what you need from her in order to be happy in this relationship, and she’s not willing to give it, so it’s best to move on. I may even go as far as to say that with her current mental health issues, she’s not girlfriend material, and she’s going to keep running into this problem with partner after partner until she decides to turn things around.
After living with someone like this, I can tell you that it is not going to get better. You can never help, you are always wrong and she will always let you know how wrong you are.
No matter her mental health situation she has clearly stated that she’s not changing anything- not herself or her behaviours and she’ll drag you down emotionally with her.
You have no choice really but to break up. There is no future here. 35 years of this? Maybe trying to raise children with this negativity and gaslighting? Walking on eggshells? It’s not going to work.
My only add: She says in relationships you’re supposed to accept people’s flaws and not want to change anything about them. … At your age especially, relationships are how you learn about someone’s flaws and you are the only person who can decide if they are deal breakers for you.
You are not obligated to stay with her if this is not the life you want.
Yeah. Break up. Discuss your incompatibility and how if she feels uncomfortable or feels like she has to hide parts of her real self, and you think you have different needs for a relationship, then it’s best to go your separate ways. The most important thing is to try and emphasize how it’s not solely her fault you think the relationship should end, because based on how you explain yourself, seeing how she behaves, she could interpret it that way.
Do you know you can simply break up with miserable assholes?
I’ve lived and grown up with people like this and I refuse to give people like that now, too much of my energy. They are energy vampires. They suck the life and joy out of any, and all, places they go and situations they’re in.
If she doesn’t see a problem with constant negativity on herself and those around her, then nothing you can do will convince her otherwise.
Do you want this to be your life forever? Because if you stay, that’s what will happen.
I very much believe we manifest the energy and outcome we send out, and people who only send out negativity will only get that back in return. She will live a miserable life, and misery loves company. Don’t let her drag you down with her.
She is unwilling to work on her issues and change. Until she is prepared to do so, you are essentially shouting at the wind. Best of luck OP.
So, there’s been studies that track (and predict) which couples divorce or not and I think this information would be pertinent for your girlfriend. They basically found that there’s a really strong formula for predicting relationship success after 5 years and that was: 5 to 1 positive vs negative interactions. Meaning for every 1 negative interaction, the couple has 5
positive interactions.
Also, everything is subjective. Choosing to view life positively isn’t “fake.” She sounds like she needs to grow up. Just because I slept wrong doesn’t mean i respond to my husbands morning smile and hello with a scowl and negative comment. You don’t owe the world your *honesty*. It’s not some beautiful gift you’re bestowing.
So, I was sick in my head in a similar way. Not quite as bad as her, but I was very much entrenched in my own victim mindset and need to control everything (which, making everything negative and not allowing any positivity in is controlling and defensive behavior, IMO). I had a white-knuckle grip on the steering wheel of my life.
When anyone came by and would ask me to loosen my knuckles from my life’s steering wheel and be more calm and peaceful, I either ignored them or lashed out defensively at them. Because if I were to stop holding on for dear life, I was terrified of what would happen. If I gave up my need to control every aspect of my life and interactions, if I tried to slow down and be peaceful, if I had to look inside myself at all, it might be so painful that I would lose my mind or die. I also lived inside a victimhood complex, because when I was the victim of my childhood abuse and everything else, I didn’t have to look at my own behavior and see how badly I had treated other people when I was an adult.
You sound like a nice, well-meaning person who is threatening your girlfriend’s tight grip on the steering wheel of the life. So of course she will lash out at you. She doesn’t sound ready to do the work she needs to do to become happy. And if she isn’t ready and doesn’t want to do it on her own, there is literally nothing you can do for her. She has to do the work and have the desire to be better. I found my way to become better in codependents anonymous, you can google “patterns of codependency” and see if it fits you at all.
You will be much happier in a relationship with a mentally healthier person. Even just being with your friends and family who are happy.
And you may want to reflect on why you ended up in a serious relationship with such an unwell person – are you codependent? Do you try to fix or save people? What red flags did you ignore in her behavior that let you stay together with someone who is so negative?
Best wishes!
Hmm few things. She’s definitely depressed on some level. I know a few people like this and they are not happy people. Like “oh this pizza is good!” “Actually xyz is wrong with it and I hate blah blah blah” like literally can’t say anything without the response being exhausting.
You can try being the happy positive and consistently calling her out. Frame of mind and mood can and will change when you are around positive or negative people.
If you don’t want to go this route then it’s best to break up.
She sounds intolerable. Break up
The red flags, oh god the red flags. Break this off clean and simple and move on. This will not lead you anywhere you want to go.
Changing yourself isn’t fake, faking is fake. You’re not asking her to fake, you’re asking her for self improvement. Everyone should be invested in self improvement, and especially should not be giving up at 21.
She’s told you in no uncertain terms she refuses to ever get any better than this. Not can’t, won’t. Why bother?
It’s not that hard to give someone positive vibes. I struggled with my mental health but I always made a point to no dwell on it and let myself wallow in it like she does. Either you break up with her for your own mental health sake or she’s going to bring you down with her.
As opposed to figuratively driving her insane?
Why would you want to be with a person who drags you down with negativity? It sounds miserable. You will not be able to make this better. 5 hours is way too much time to try to convince someone that your feelings also matter.
Why would you want to be with someone who’s so negative and hate themselves so much? Y’all aren’t compatible if she thinks positivity is fake and you don’t.
So proud of you for seeing the signs and standing your ground! You absolutely deserve to not have to listen to negativity all the time, and your requests aren’t that huge. It sounds like she’s really unwell- I’m sorry for her and what she is going through, but you don’t deserve to be dragged down too. It seems like you already know what you have to do- best of luck, update us on what you decide to do!!
She’s really manipulative.. and she sounds miserably exhausting.
Break. Up.
Put some sunshine back in your life.
I couldn’t live with this, can’t lie. And the fact that she thinks it’s never ok to change something about yourself is a 🚩to me
Clearly her mental health is not in a strong enough place for a relationship. She told you yourself that if you don’t want to accept that all she does is bring you down then you shouldn’t be in a relationship, so that seems like your answer.
Although I think you characterizing her as “threatening” might be uncharitable. Catastrophizing and feeling completely stuck where you are is common in mental illness such as anxiety disorders, so she very likely genuinely believes that putting that amount of effort into the relationship could cause devastating results. I don’t know what she said or how she said it, and it could just as easily be a manipulation tactic, but if you feel she’s the kind of person to be malicious like that then that’s further reason to leave.