We’ve all seen the recent statement in the news. Countries that don’t pay their share might not be defended. How do you feel about this?
Quick info about me: I’m from Germany and I 100% support the 2% rule. I will also consider this in the next election, meaning I will vote for a party that wants to increase military spending. But let us assume we’ll fall short and Russia (or whatever other country) attacks. Would the American public support a military campaign?
41 comments
I 100% support it. I like protecting our allies and democracy.
I support it a lot more than a bunch of European countries claiming they do with words…and then not with actions.
I fully support NATO.
> Would the American public support a military campaign?
Some would. Some would not.
I personally, would.
But, there’s plenty who don’t agree, and the rhetoric about what a crappy nation America is (regardless of her leader / unable to disassociate the nation from her leadership at the time) from countries that rely heavily on America to defend them from aggression is well … aggravating. /signed someone who moved to America from a nation that makes it a national pastime to insult America whilst living under her security umbrella.
I support defense of NATO countries, those who’ve applied to join NATO, and countries that don’t belong to NATO at all but fall within the realm of “it’s in our best interest”.
Strong support for NATO.
NATO is good, annoyed that other countries are not contributing as much as they’re supposed to though. Makes it seem like they’re taking advantage of us, and let’s be honest they probably are.
Defeats the point of an agreement if all sides don’t follow it.
I like NATO just fine, I eagerly await the day when some of its countries take their own defense seriously.
yeah, we like Nato and our allies in the east. I think americans tent to be more fond of the nato countries and their people than vice versa.
I think most Americans would generally expect other countries to do as well as Ukraine has and thus support a resumption of lend-lease and plenty of aid over direct involvement.
I support NATO.
Strong support for NATO.
The North Atlantic Treaty is a cornerstone of American defense policy.
I fully support our involvement in NATO. I also fully support my country demanding its allies, particularly European ones who are most affected by Russian aggression, to do more to bolster their militaries and quit being complacent barnacles that also regular insult and demean us.
I think most people support it.
However, it is quite offensive that many countries aren’t meeting their obligations and are taking advantage of the US.
Let’s be real, most people don’t even know what NATO is, let alone have strong opinions on it. To be clear, I’m 100% in support of it, but one of the things I’ve observed foreigners have the hardest time grasping about America is how little attention or knowledge most people have about foreign affairs. This sub is not representative of Americans at large.
Very strong supporter of NATO and holding the line against Russia in Eastern Europe whatever it takes for as long as it takes spending as much as it takes.
That said, I would like to see Europe being all in though and upping their contributions. War against a foe like Russia isn’t cheap and everyone’s going to need to make some real financial sacrifices in this struggle and for a long duration.
I think it will be very challenging to sustain popular support for NATO in that context.
The best arguments in favor would be the longstanding commitment of the Baltic states and Poland. You can persuasively claim that they’ve kept faith and done what was asked and more to sustain their part and we owe them reciprocity. You can make a more abstract and correct (but less emotionally persuasive) argument that NATO as a whole serves American interests and we shouldn’t let it disintegrate.
But if we’re staring down the barrel of a war with Russia and our major allies are essentially sideline participants who’ve been taking advantage of us for decades and are only now considering *maybe* fully holding up their end after the threat we loudly and repeatedly warned them was there actually turns out to be exactly where we said it was…I don’t know that the American people would support another war. The voices against it have a lot of ammunition and many of them would come from the part of the political spectrum that’s traditionally most opposed to Russia.
We’re presently in a heated debate over our involvement in wars where we have no troop deployment and our financial stake is fairly small. Turn that into World War 3 and I don’t know that Americans will be interested. We have a lot of generational war fatigue, we don’t have leaders to rally behind in case of a crisis – both prospects are ancient, cognitively challenged and widely despised – and we’re not especially patriotic or concerned with national honor at the moment,
That’s not what I want, but it’s my impression of Americans generally. I hope I’m wrong.
The best ways Europeans can forestall that:
1) Meaningfully and visibly increase military spending.
2) Pursue a more reciprocal strategic relationship with us; that is, make some meaningful commitment to countering China.
3) Make an effort to court the American right. Basically since Obama, it’s been obvious that Europeans (particularly Germans) like Democratic administrations and loath Republican ones. That effectively means our elections decide whether you interact with us as reluctant or enthusiastic partners, and a lot of American notice the difference. They don’t want to fight for people who hate them.
4) Fight like crazy if you’re attacked. Ukraine inspired a lot of support from us by fighting effectively and tenaciously.
I support NATO and I support holding NATO members to task for not holding up their end of the bargain. If a county isn’t willing to defend themselves why should American blood and money be spent to defend them?
Unfortunately too many people think NATO is still useful due to neoconservatives and neoliberals.
The Europeans aren’t good allies. Macron even called NATO “braindead” before invasion in Ukraine. Merkel hated multiple American administrations and actively pursued closer relations with Russia.
**Reminder that Germany REJECTED Ukraine’s entry into NATO. Meanwwhile we PUSHED for Ukraine’s entry into NATO. This all couldve been completely avoided if Europe actually treated us as allies and didnt have delusions about having a counterbalance against America.**
European countries has consistently opposed every of our geopolitical plans and actively cost/delay our resources to pivot to Asia.
Oh and Europeans have an Anti-American culture in their media/politicians/populations.
Screw the Europeans and they can go fight Russia. I don’t care. They’ve never treated us as allies.
End of story.
I support NATO. But what do you mean by a military campaign? I’m not sure if the US should defend Europe more than Europe wants to defend itself.
And since we’ve had multiple US presidents rant about how Europe purchasing trillions of dollars of energy from Russia is building up this war machine even after the invasions of Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014, I am very disappointed with our European allies. They helped to create this problem for NATO. We need to back them up, but they also created this mess in part.
I 100% support European Nations paying for their own defense rather than expecting the U.S. to foot the Bill. You might not be able to do it all on your own, but doing next to nothing isn’t an option either.
I support nato, but it seems like russia is toying with it and everyone is too afraid to do anything.
I’m a big fan of NATO. Worked with some of our member nation militaries while I was under a NATO command in Afghanistan. We had a team of Latvian soldiers on my platoon’s OP and they were excellent soldiers. We also had air cover flown by British pilots at times as well.
There is a joke in the US that goes something like this:”Your defense spending is awful high, are you compensating for something?””Yes, weak allies”
I think most Americans **support** NATO but also feel American forces do more than their fair share of putting out metaphorical fires around the world. Historically the United states has seen Europe as a speed-bump to be rolled over while our forces mobilize. If European nations are able to defend themselves without US intervention, Ironically I think it would garner more support for US boots-on-the-ground involvement in a European war.
Americans don’t want to feel like they are bleeding for foreigners who weren’t willing to do it themselves.
I am not taking a stance here, this is merely my understanding of the opinions in my country. I believe the American govt would intervene directly if a close ally was threatened.
I mean we have to honor the treaty. I’d hate the idea of more Americans dying because allies were unprepared and laughed in our face when pushed to meet their obligations, but for the sake of the treaty, we’d have to honor it. We need a stable Europe for our sakes and can’t return to the mess Europe was pre-1945 or during the Cold War.
Most Americans buy into the idea of America needing to be the world’s policeman, so being the shepherd of the NATO flock kinda comes with that concept.
There is a large minority of Americans who do see European NATO as being leeches who largely loves to hate on Americans and yet guilts and shames us to work towards their country’s objectives over ours. Some socially left-leaning NATO-skeptics question why it is almost exclusively white countries who even are in NATO, and a lot of the dovish NATO-skeptics are concerned about asking why the US should risk its own sons and daughters (and nuclear war) over a country as insignificant to our global interests as Estonia or Hungary.
Overall though, I feel like people on all sides lack a lot of nuance. The NATO-lovers seem to generally not grapple with the idea of America being used as a tool when convenient, nor the very real conversations about whether a nuclear attack on Latvian soil warrants nuclear retaliation. The NATO-skeptics seem to generally not grapple with the idea that this general pax-Americana in Europe was in large part thanks to the American government positioning itself as the gun of NATO, and that an emboldened Russia could lead to aggressor nations in other parts of the world acting more boldly against American interests.
Also, it should be noted that you are not a cuck to Europe for being pro-NATO, and you are not a cuck to Putin for being anti-NATO. You are not anti-American for holding either position.
The only shameful position on this in my mind is if you are blindly clinging to your position without seriously contending with the opposite argument seriously, or if your goal is for bad things to happen in the world or to America.
I look at it like this. Why would I take resources from my countrymen, or why should I send myself, my sons, or my nephews to die for a country that actively refuses to take its self defense and international obligations seriously?
Germany finally hit 2% as of today for the first time since the end of the cold war. So 1992-2024 they’ve not upheld their end of the NATO agreements for over 20 years. Why would I be eager to assist a country like that?
NATO is a group project, and there’s certain people who don’t pull their weight. That doesn’t mean that we don’t pick up the slack, but it does mean we’ll be annoyed that we have to.
I would like the US to stay more isolated and not support so many foreign countries.
I support NATO. The American public would ultimately support defending Europe, but there is a growing number in the populist voting base that may not and Europe isn’t doing anything to help that situation.
Even for me as a 100% NATO supporter, I would be lying if I said I wasn’t irritated with how most of Europe has handled itself within NATO.
15 years ago, Obama reminded them they needed to meet their commitments and they largely ignored it. In 2017, Trump expressed the same thing just less nicely and they acted like they were being unfairly attacked.
An actual war happened on their front door just like they were warned about by the US and they were still slow to take action.
Like, I think Trump is a dangerous buffoon that serves only himself and withdrawing would be completely idiotic, but it took until his crazy threats for Europe to actually take action? That’s so disappointing. It shouldn’t have come to this.
Acting like the US putting pressure on Europe to meet its commitments has done more damage to the alliance than them **consistently refusing to meet those commitments** and then treating us with disdain for being upset about it is beyond the pale to me. I think it’s so self-centered and ridiculous how European news outlets seem to be framing it that way.
Irish news media doing that is especially rich considering the circumstances.
Im generally shifting toward the “Exit the world stage” policy these days.
Here is the Pew Research Poll showing public opinion:
[https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/07/10/views-of-nato/#:~:text=People%20hold%20generally%20positive%20views,view%20of%20the%20military%20alliance](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/07/10/views-of-nato/#:~:text=People%20hold%20generally%20positive%20views,view%20of%20the%20military%20alliance).
Considering the problems the US has been experiencing with Europe in general, I think it is a fair representation; generally supportive of the idea, but with serious reservations.
I think NATO should be given less priority in US geopolitical decision-making. Europe is becoming irrelevant internationally and its usefulness, which was always debatable, is increasingly in doubt.
NATO is why Putin hasn’t invaded Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania. Attacking Ukraine is him testing the Western alliance. He knows if he can fracture it enough, he can take back land occupied by the former USSR.
All the NATO countries that border Russia are at or above 2%, so unless Russia tried some odd end-run around them (which would require a Navy that Russia doesn’t have), then the US should come to their defense.
I support NATO 100%, and never want to see it dissolve or the US withdraw. That would be like the damn holding back WWIII bursting.
That said, both the US and Europe have been living in a dream world the past two decades, believing that engagement and economic integration with authoritarian China and Russia was going to result in their peaceful rise. The true nature of those regimes is now finally clear, and both US and EU are beginning decoupling. Better late than never, but both are also partly responsible for enriching, empowering and emboldening these despotic regimes, and now have to pay to undo that mistake.
The problem with NATO is that, in a world that is *not* 100% safe and has rivals to Western hegemony (e.g. Russia and China) who are clearly flexing their muscle, NATO members really need to pony up and get some skin in the game. Warfare is changing in a way that the US military will *not* be able to defend all its allies in the way that it could for the second half of the 20th century. If Russia decides to invade Europe, for example, it’s not going to just send waves of soldiers and roll out the tanks. It will be piecemeal, bit by bit, and the US will not be able to spend the kind of money it’s spending on Ukraine on multiple fronts.
This is essentially why so many countries are joining NATO: once they’re in, Russia cannot do what it’s doing to Ukraine without triggering an immediate military response from 31 different countries – including the USA.
There is a certain degree of frustration and umbrage on the part of American citizens and politicians regarding NATO. Many NATO countries directly benefit from US military spending which they sometimes mock. This same defense spending and these same defense policies, which are decried as “world policing,” interventionist, militaristic, and unnecessary are also responsible for bringing genuine stability and military safety to many parts of Europe. Some Europeans genuinely do not understand that, and some Americans squint their eyes, look across the pond, and resent it; why the hell are we spending all this money to protect allies who not only aren’t grateful for it, but also sometimes openly mock it? Even more, there are some Americans who think NATO is imperialistic and bad. Well, guess what: it **is** imperialistic, but it is what maintains stability and security in a world that is filled with people who are *not* your friends, and *who want to kill you and take your stuff*.
Personally, I believe 100% in NATO. It is pretty much the only thing stopping Russia from being a noodge and attempting to chisel off pieces of its neighboring countries, the same way it’s doing to Ukraine right now. The Russians know good goddamn well that their only ace in the hole against the US military is their nuclear arsenal. I just wish more NATO countries – their citizens, their politicians – understood this stuff, and would start taking it a lot more seriously.
The world is not safe. It never has been and it never will be.
Also, stop buying shit from Russia and from China. They are not your friends and they never will be. These countries want to be on top like the USA, except I can guarantee that they will be far more malevolent about it than the USA ever was or wants to be.
From the talk I am hearing from others is that a majority of people want to protect Europe from a Russian empire. There are Republicans who say they want to reduce foreign support and spending to have that money be spent domestically.
Unfortunately for the USA, when a Republican says they want the money spent domestically it’s usually to bail out billionaires for bad business decisions, thinking that large corporations support the economy.
As far as military spending we spend more than the next 25 nations combined, 18 of which are, or were, our allies.
Personally I’m former military and spent three years in Germany, two years before unification and one after. I fell in love with the place and I would love to visit again, but not as a Russian country.
I fully support NATO. Full stop and I’m not interested in hearing about ‘paying their fair share’. Russia being countered and contained is payment enough.
I feel like NATO is absolutely essential for peace on Earth at all. Trump is cut from the same vile cloth as Putin. Vampire cult leader that wants to doom us all. Absolutely shocking to see how easily Republicans can be paid to let America flounder. Their 30 pieces of silver will never pay their way out of hell.
100% in full support of NATO.
I agree that our allies not just in NATO but also in Asia and elsewhere should step up with their defense obligations but not supporting an ally (or worse, abandoning them) is wrong and very counterintuitive to our efforts.
Like, yeah we obviously have material, economic, strategic, political, and military interests at stake but at the end of the day, it’s the right thing to do to stand up for our allies. NATO went to bat for us in GWOT, why not do the same for them if push comes to shove?
I would completely sincerely argue that Russian psyops are one of my biggest worries about American society, especially in regard to exacerbating racial division. So I don’t really care whether Canada and Western European countries are paying their fair share or not.
At most I’m frustrated that Western Europeans, Australians, and Canadians play innocent on the less savory parts of US foreign policy when they largely benefit them too. But that’s nothing compared to how much we need to do anything we can to keep Russia at bay.
Countries hate our military and so do liberals (I’m a democrat and mostly a liberal).
I think it a little absurd to defend countries whose citizens dislike the US military and also don’t pay their share.
in reality, I think how things are now is actually ok, but on paper I think the U.S. should be a bit stricter in the future.
In the Ukraine war in particular the US should be a SUPPORTER, not the main funder. The US is basically just acting in its Allies (England (and somewhat France) best interests and obeying what would be their foreign policy if the US wasn’t there to carry it out.