Been dating someone for less than a year, and we got to discussing about marriage.
To her, having a prenup for marriage is a dealbreaker.
Been trying to dig deeper on that, she claims having a prenup is not love, it’s not trust. I think she just has a overly idealistic idea of what love and romance is. She wants to enter a marriage “100%” and not having a prenup demonstrates trust, commitment, and prioritisation of her. It’s “unconditional love”.
I tried explaining that US divorce laws are a total mess (I’m not a citizen nor resident, while she is) and I’d rather not leave my life in the hands of the system.
I am 39F (yes it’s 2 Fs) and in my early 20s I’ve lost almost everything – my family members (death), my home/house, and I’ve worked real hard to accumulate a good amount in the last 15 years (it’s my safety net). I have trauma from having lost everything and my security blanket is money in the bank, and it’s very very unlikely that I’d hand that over to another person.
Perhaps due to age, I also take a much more practical view to marriage and partnerships. I’d prefer that we manage our own assets/accounts, while understandably we can have a joint account for joint expenses (and I’m happy to pay more or proportionately to how much we have.)
For context, my net worth is estimated 20-40X of hers, and I’m planning to retire \~2 years while she’s at somewhere around the start of her career.
I also told her that love to me is not about sacrificing one person or putting one person in pain to please (or demonstrate love to) another person, it’s about creating a safe place for both parties. Sadly, she does not seem to think that’s the case.
Anyone has dealt with something similar and has any advice for this?
*Added for extra context:*
*-Discussion of marriage early on because I don’t have as much time to date around and go with traditional timelines.*
*-Retirement plans: I plan to start trying for kids as soon as this year, so essentially I will be the carrier, full-time parent, and the one financially providing for kids (not an issue for me, it’s always been in my plans.)*
*Honestly I think the hustler blood in me doesn’t just go away, I’m just making room/space in “retirement” to be fully present for kids, but I’m almost certain if I have the capacity, I’ll still want to stay engaged in some form of work/venture/volunteering/passion project/intellectually challenging projects.*
42 comments
I understand both sides. To her it feels like you’re planning on a divorce. What she doesn’t understand is the 50/50 split in the US is like an automatic prenup.
If it’s important to you, stand your ground.
I think you two should continue conversations about your respective thoughts and feelings on the matter. Continue to clarify your rationale with her, and ask her to respond and acknowledge where you’re coming from, even if she disagrees on the implications for marriage. Same goes for the other way around: ask her to clarify what her expectations are for love and marriage, and acknowledge her values and perspective, even if you disagree on the prenup issue.
Once you two can better understand each other’s perspective, then you can brainstorm possibilities that acknowledge BOTH of your perspectives and concerns. Is there a way for you two to enter a prenup in a way that still helps her feel that your love meets her standards? Is there a way for you two to get married in a way that addresses your security concerns?
Unfortunately, if you two can’t find middle ground, then your relationship might be hitting a brick wall determined by conflicting expectations.
You should not marry her.
Having a prenup is your boundary and don’t let her push you. If she doesn’t like it, she’s not the one for you.
Explain it to her like this. The whole point of a prenup is you don’t trust the government to be fair aka their rules suck. So, you wrote your own rules. Otherwise, if she doesn’t like the rules you put out, and if she understands that the rules we have in place at the moment suck, then don’t sign marriage papers at all. It’s nothing about her, it’s about us not trusting the government to handle things fairly if things go bad. If she still doesn’t get it, then I’d rethink marrying this person. Biggest reason for relationship fallouts is financial reasons, so she better get with reality and understand that. It’s unfortunately not all ponys and rainbows like movies and anime make it out to be.
Maybe you two aren’t compatible?
It’s more common to not want a prenup than Reddit would let you think. Many people see it as planning a divorce in advance or as anticipating the end of a marriage in advance. Many people also see it as something that inherently goes against their marriage vows of “until death do us part” because you are planning your parting. In marriage, what is yours also legally belongs to your partner. Beginning a marriage by trying to protect yourself against the other person can also be seen as an insult.
This is a site with a lot of men who are extremely pro-prenup and wary of “golddiggers,” so you’re going to get a lot of people saying “We want prenup.”
I think you need to continue hearing each other’s perspectives through continued conversation. Sometimes these types of discussions look like many conversations over time. Consider her feelings and life experiences without judgment and let her hear yours too. It’s early in the relationship, and you’re still getting to know each other and learning to understand each other’s backgrounds and perspectives. See where you land again after a while.
It’s easy, tell her that as long as you stay together it’s just a meaningless piece of paper, which is obviously your goal.
Also, if you’re significantly more well off than her, offer to pay for her to have her own lawyer (NOT one that you two share) that can go through it on her behalf.
This sucks but if having a prenup is a need for you and not having one is a need for her, then this just doesn’t work
You both see marriage and prenups differently. I don’t see how that will change.
The best way to look at it from a neutral place is that if you die the government decides what is done with your stuff ect, if you make a will, you get to decide what happens to you and your stuff. When you divorce the government decides what happens to all your stuff or you fight in court for it. If you do a prenup it takes the guess work out, plus you are negotiating it while you like each other, instead of angry and divorcing.
This is BS. She’s 32, at this age she should know that NO marriage is a guaranteed forever and when that happens, people lose their assets. It’s disingenuous of her to play up this *”unconditional love”* card. Not one adult is unaware that marriage needs to be insured the same way that your car, house has to be.
She is NOT a 24yr old naive girl who still believes in Disney shit. This is all a pretence to see just how far she can push this “belief”. People like this need to be called out and their bluff called. You’ll see how fast she’s suddenly willing to “compromise”
Honestly it feels like not agreeing to a prenup is more of HER not believing in the marriage/planning a divorce, and that plan is to get half your shit. Don’t budge.
-a broke person
Turn it around on her. If it’s 100% then what’s she got to worry about? She’s not signing away anything she’d ever need.
Honestly, skip marriage all together. It’s overrated and I’ve been married for 30 years. Don’t put her name on a mortgage either.
If you’re retiring in two years…how will that work with her career stage? Are you going to travel without her? Do a ton of hobbies and be the house spouse? Cover the majority of living expenses so she can build up her own savings/nest egg?
I can absolutely see your girlfriend’s concern if she thinks the expectation is she work part time or volunteer so the two of you can spend maximum amount of time together, but that really puts her at a disadvantage in a divorce. With a prenup, she’ll get nothing and have been able to build nothing.
It sounds like you two were just having a hypothetical conversation and you don’t actually want to marry her, so it’s actually a moot issue. She’s just getting started and you’re eyeing retirement, the two of you do not sound like marriage material.
I think prenups are widely misperceived.
To me, having a prenup actually *is* a sign of love, because you’re much more likely to be fair and reasonable now than in the midst of a divorce. For example, right now, you’re both likely to agree that if one of you is unfaithful, any divorce settlement should reflect that; without a prenup, whoever’s unfaithful will just have an incentive to hash out every little detail and sling as much mud as possible so that everyone looks dirty.
I absolutely see both sides of this but I also wonder if this is a deal breaker for her, what else is? Deeper convos about what marriage means to you both might show that you really want or don’t want a future together.
I hope you see the red flags!
If you have $ and assets, then I absolutely recommend a pre-nup. Marital love is NOT unconditional and it takes more than love to make a marriage work and last. Personally, I don’t understand why anyone has an issue with a prenup. It has nothing to do with the amount love ore respect. It is about protecting what you have worked hard to create. Also, she should have her own separate lawyer review anything before signing. She can add an adultery clause, alimony, child care, etc…. She needs to understand a prenup can protect her as well.
You stick to your plan – if she cannot see it from your POV she’s not the girl for you.
Thing is, romantic love is always conditional. Its conditional on the other person continuing to treat their partner well and accurately represent who they are, which in romantic relationships is harder to see right away because people always start off on their best foot. It takes at least 3 years IMO to even know someone well enough to understand how they deal with life matters. Its highly sus that your gf is being so emotional and weird about YOUR money. Im divorced and highly recommend you stick to your values and don’t marry without one. People change over time and from the outside it definitely appears as if your gf is gold digging or at least expecting you to financially cover her life regardless of how the relationship works out which for me would be a deal breaker.
Aside from the prenup – how is you retiring in two years going to work? Is she foreseeing retiring at a normal age and thus see you retired for 3 decades before she does? Are you planning to be a house wife in retirement and take on all the house work and upkeep? I see a lot of issues with someone in retirement being married to someone who’s still doing the daily grind for YEARS upon years.
Edit: With regard to the prenup – How are you planning on structuring the prenup? If you plan to retire in 2 years that means almost all of your assets will be pre-marital while it’s her income that will be what’s creating marital assets. As your income will be just what you need to draw to live. So how are you handling that factor? Maybe if you plan to handle that well (she gets most of the marital assets) then it might be a good thing to point out to her.
The best way I heard a prenup explained in a way that made the most sense is this:
People have wills right? Why? So that they have control over how their assets are divided when they die. They have a say. If there is no will, the government decides, and it barely in anyone’s best interest.
A pre-nup is like a will for a marriage. Because *if* a marriage ends, it does one of two ways:
1. You have a prenup (will) written out that was created and agreed upon by both parties so that things are divided up in their best interest.
2. There is no pre-nup (will) and the government decides everything.
Why would each party not want their own decisions made ahead of time? A pre-nup is not a one-party against the other document. It’s a document that covers both parties and what they want and works to be in their best interest and protections. A joint will of sorts. Leaving it to the government to decide helps no one.
Also, being with someone less than a year and gambling marriage with no pre nup would be a WILD mistake. There is no rush to get married.
Advice…..
Stand your ground. Either she gets on board or she finds someone else.
Good that you got this conversation out of the way early. Now you know you are not compatible.
I find if anyone thinks a prenup is a deal breaker that is a deal breaker. She should be at the very least understanding of you wanting to protect yourself even if she feels conflicted about not automatically having ownership of half your stuff or more when you sign the certificate. Her reaction to even just bringing up the idea can give you an answer of if she’s worth trusting with yourself and your assets
Stand your ground. It would be very unwise after all you’ve been through to not get a prenup. She’s being unfair and unreasonable and unrealistic. I’d question whether or not her attitude is a deal breaker tbh. She already knows all you’ve been through I assume, don’t be threatened over her insecurities about what unconditional love is when she won’t budge an inch about your real insecurities when it comes to struggling through life. Have a long hard think about whether she’s worth the hassle but get a prenup either way
OP, I guess I can also relate to both sides of this conversation. Like you, I had a first marriage in my 20s that was fraught with trauma, and in the aftermath of that lust everything that I had including our home due to my spouse not paying back taxes.
In my next marriage, I kept my home in my name as it was my investment, and my safety net should anything not last a lifetime.
On the other hand, it sounds like your significant trauma from your previous experience has made you very fearful about money and longevity, and I don’t know this for sure, but it also seems to make you pretty closed towards your partner .
I kept my house as my ass, prior to marriage, however, I generously shared my income, my time, and my everything with my partner when we married . it sounds like both of you would do well talking to someone objective about different ways to deal with finances in a marriage, but it also sounds like you need to do some unpacking and some healing around your previous trauma with money or you’re going to carry that into future relationships with this person or with anyone else you date.
I think it shows a lack a maturity and thought based on reality. She’s not wrong for believing in it, and you’re not wrong for being pragmatic. Eventually one thing will be “ just a piece of paper”, your prenup or your marriage license. If love is all that matters, then what the point of a marriage just be in a relationship, but in adult life entering into a commitment comes with both benefits and consequences. It’s childish to view a marriage like a fairytale and THAT is what would bother me. Life is hard and it takes a whole lot of “ adulting”.
Marriage isn’t unconditional love. It’s literally conditional love. This conditions are stipulated in the vows. She’s wildly idealistic to live in today’s society.
As someone who’s had three divorces, two governed by prenups, get the prenup. A divorce without a prenup is a friggin nightmare if you have substantially more assets going in. The fact remains that any growth in your retirement savings is still half hers, but at least you can protect your principal.
Marriage certificates and prenups are both legal documents. If she wants to stick to the lovey dovey romance part, then no need to get the government involved.
There is nothing wrong with a prenup. If the marriage lasts then you don’t need it, but if it doesn’t then you’ll be grateful that you have it. You already know how and why you need one for your emotional safety so hold your ground.
So now matter what, yall will have a prenup. Either one that you both agree to, or the one the state chooses for you.
If she’s comfortable with leaving all those decisions to the government if the marriage fails, then good for her. But if she wants any power in what happens to her future in that situation, she needs to help create a contract that is beneficial to herself.
You guys have been together less than a year, so walking away now is no real loss.
Prenups are just a logical way of creating a contract to protect yourself, at a stage where both parties are theoretically open-minded and not contentious.
I was extremely fortunate my divorce was so amicable. I entered into it with a large resource of cash assets, all of which my ex-husband returned and he bought me out of our home. We were extremely fair in the process, and even still it was a tough thing to navigate while going through heavy emotions. I can’t imagine how much harder it would have been if there had been infidelity or something awful. He now says he wants a prenup if he ever gets married again, just to save the hassle of figuring it all out after the fact.
You should ask her – in the instance of you two getting a divorce, what does she think is fair in terms of a divorce settlement? Would your prenup basically leave her with nothing? Would she want 50/50? If yes, why does she think that’s fair regardless of circumstance surrounding the divorce? It might highlight a lot more misalignment on how you think about money. We know money is one of the biggest reasons marriages don’t last, so figure it out now!
I saw another post where a divorce lawyer suggested a sliding scale based on how long the marriage lasts as a way of compromise in a similar situation.
She’s foolish to think there’s no scenario your marriage could end, so stick to your guns on this. Loving someone shouldn’t mean putting your entire future and financial security at risk.
Sounds like she’s planning on taking half your stuff. Less than a year and refusing a prenup? She should understand your viewpoint. You aren’t compatible, please don’t waste any more of your precious time
Looks like she has some naive views on relationships and I don’t know that you can get around that. My fiance suggested a prenup. I agreed, and my reasoning is that shit happens and if we end our marriage, I want it to abide by the terms we set when we were still very much in love and wanting the best for the other, not when we were in our feelings of anger, sorrow, vindictiveness, etc. I want to make sure that if shit hits the fan, I will still abide by my morals and sense of fairness (which I’m hoping I would have anyways, but just in case I don’t).
She needs to understand that even the best laid plans can go awry. The idea of unending healthy love is a beautiful one and, while I hope like hell I found mine, it’s not exactly common.
It’s not unconditional love. It should not be unconditional love with a spouse. If it’s a deal breaker, then don’t get married
Let me tell you. I have been SO happy that I have one. It’s making my divorce a lot easier. And my partner was hiding who he really was VERY well, but couldn’t keep the mask after two years married.
Don’t marry this person without a prenup.
The loudest people about it are the most suspicious imo