Before I dive in, know that I love my wife and I want to fix this. I’m posting in r/RelationshipAdvice for a reason. It will be a lot, but please don’t read it like an AITA post and pass judgment. I need some honest advice, and I’m miles away from my real-life support network.
The TL; DR is that my wife has (re)developed a bunch of conversational habits from hanging out with her brother. These habits leave me feeling excluded, stressed, and are messing with my work. Trying to address them has opened a whole can of worms, mainly that my wife hates my entire problem-solving style.
I’m keeping details vague in case she stumbles upon this post. Please, if you think my story doesn’t add up, or you think you know where I am and want to offer real estate advice or whatever, keep it to yourself.
We got hitched and moved in together right before before Covid hit. Started off great, but after six months of lockdowns and masks, we realized we could live anywhere in the country without paying through the nose for coastal housing. For context: I work in tech, and my wife is a performer. We met in a bar, and honestly, Covid was the wake-up call that my career hadn’t lived up to my potential, probably due to alcohol. So I accepted the reality that maybe my career isn’t going where I hoped, and isn’t likely to – and instead of chasing after it, we should downsize our expenses. I counted my blessings for having a wonderful wife instead.
I negotiated permanent remote work. We aimed to move to the low-cost state she grew up in. Her brother, who I like way more than my own family, hooked us up with a place to rent near his house. Bigger than we needed, but I was okay with it because it had space for a home office. We boxed up our lives into a truck and moved.
Here’s where it gets complicated. My wife has always been talkative, and she can be pretty dang loud. Not sure how much of this I didn’t fully realize before. When we were dating, we only saw each other a couple of days a week, and in our first place together, we never had visitors thanks to the pandemic. But when she’s with her brother, she talks like she’s trying to command a room full of first-graders. She also doesn’t adjust her volume when she’s close to me. I have tinnitus, and she has literally made my ears ring by talking while leaning on me
Next up. I feel like a jerk saying this, given what I know about the word ‘shrill’, but hear me out. If the two of us are in the same room, she’ll use a tone of voice that seems intended to be impossible to ignore.
Third, if I try to join the conversation, my wife will interrupt me and steamroll right over me. Part of this is because she has a strange conversational rhythm where she seems to be done talking but then BAM! She jumps back in at an even higher volume, after the pause. So if you think it’s your turn to speak, you get interrupted. She does this even when no one else is talking. She will interrupt me to finish my sentences, nearly always incorrectly. She will interrupt me to tell me I’m wrong about something, ruining my flow. She will interrupt me to take over telling a story, telling it worse by missing key facts and rambling at higher speed.
Fourth, she doesn’t seem to organize her thoughts before speaking. At all. Couple with what I just mentioned, you’ve got her cutting off anyone who dares to chime in until she’s “talked out” the subject with everything she can think of. By then, everyone else is bored and over being interrupted when they try to jump in. So, the topic just fizzles out, and she covers that up with nervous laughter.
Fifth, if I try to ask questions to follow along, she gets mad that I’m interrupting her or ruining her flow. So I’ve given up on questions. If I lose track, I either catch up or I don’t. I can’t zone out because of her volume and tone.
Sixth, after she’s been around her brother, she maintains this kind of conversational energy when it’s just us. Her brother can be just as loud, and raises his voice and talks over her right back in the moment. But when we’re in any group that does not include my wife, he’s back to an energy I can converse with. She does not switch back, not unless she hasn’t seen him for at least a week.
Seventh, their parents’ first language isn’t English, and they immediately switch to it as soon as I leave the room. If you know the language I mean, it makes every conversation sound like a fight. I figure, if they’re not including me anyway, why talk in English while I’m around? Why can’t I just leave you guys to talk? No, because then my wife gets mad that I’m a bad host, that I “hate” her brother, or calls me a “rude teenager”.
Eighth, 90% of their what they talk about are their opinions, mostly of family members, reality TV, or random AITA stuff. They just keep regurgitating the same views about people, social issues, capitalism, America, over and over. When I do get to throw in my two cents, they often react with anger. It feels like a low-effort bonding activity: like we’re constantly reaffirming the group values – and verbally punishing transgression – rather than discuss anything new. Her brother isn’t like this away from her.
However I slice this, it’s incongruent. If they want me involved by speaking English, why not let me chime in? If they think they’re entertaining me, why not make sure I’m following? And if I’m supposed to zone out, why use a tone and volume that’s impossible to ignore?
The impression I get is that my wife thinks my role is to be her passive audience, plain and simple.
There’s more about my job, but first, how I’ve failed to address this so far.
First, the loudness. According to both of them ‘that’s just the way we are,’ so it ain’t changing.
I haven’t addressed the tone, I can’t figure out how to without starting a fight.
Interruptions. My wife has had four levels of reactions when I have brought this up. First, she straight-up ignores it. Second, she acknowledges it, but with an eye roll like I’m just being petty. Third is to get mad, call me an asshole, or accuse me of silencing her. Fourth, she blows up and yells all kinds of crap (“you’re evil,” “you just hate my brother,” and incongruently, “you two are douche-bros together”), which after she’ll say she didn’t mean. She’ll then start crying about losing me, or even making her brother hate her. She’ll make me swear to keep reminding her. But in the moment, when she’s not upset, she’s back to eye rolling.
Rambling. My wife’s response is that I do the exact same thing, and that when I do it, it’s extremely boring. What she means is that if I’m excited by or trying to explain anything technical, she tunes out as soon as she hears a word she doesn’t understand, and stares right through my head until I stop talking. Apparently, this is ‘polite’. Asking questions, saying I’m not interested? Just rude.
How she changes her behavior around her brother. Raising it makes her mad. She has straight-up told me, “I will always pick my brother over you.” In her more honest moments, she’s admitted the thought of me developing a beef with her brother is one of her worst nightmares, so her anger is really for of that outcome, directed at me. She gets that this is counterproductive, sometimes. But this conversation is tough.
Switching in English. They forget this and slip back to ‘politeness’ rules. I have to be careful how I word ‘I have no interest in this conversation’ or ‘You don’t need to talk in English’ or they both say I’m rude and get mad.
My wife has also said she hates the way I solve relationship problems, calling it ‘patronizing hippy crap’. For instance, I ask people what their goal is in saying or doing certain thing (“What’s your intention in talking so loud?”). This immediately makes my wife mad, like she thinks I’m playing sociology professor and using brains to outsmart her. Thing is, she will say a LOT of things she doesn’t mean in an argument, and I tend to take things literally, so I need to check that she doesn’t actually mean “You’re evil”, otherwise the argument escalates for other reasons.
I feel like she retaliates for feeling like I’m trying to impose some kind of intellectual superiority over her by trying to impose some kind of “social intelligence” superiority over me. “Of course people don’t mean everything they say in fucking arguments, are you retarded?”. She’ll misinterpret what I’m saying in a way that implies I’m real dumb, then moves the conversation on before I can defend myself. All of which is exacerbated by how her habits push me out of the conversation.
Onto work problems. My job requires two things from me: hard problem-solving which needs long periods of uninterrupted focus, and rapid incident response. Being interrupted/talked to while I’m deep in work disrupts both of those. Neither my wife nor her brother (who’s a contractor) stick to regular office hours, and they both like to knock back a few during the day. Now, I have no issue with that, but I do have a problem when he comes over, starts drinking with my wife, they have loud conversations which I can hear from my office. Often from one room to another.
My wife doesn’t appreciate me complaining about this since she “should be free to enjoy her own home” and I “can easily get another job.” I’ve tried explaining to her that no, I can’t easily get a job that pays the same in this state. Either I’d have to hunt for increasingly scarce remote work, or we’d need to suck up downsizing and potentially moving away from her brother. She refuses to entertain any of this.
Things have improved slightly since I started composing this post, but only after a chaotic incident. She stormed into my office to look for something, mid-argument with her brother. In frustration, I took off for a drive to clear my head. Of course, there was an incident while I was out, I missed the notification, and got written up for it.
I’ve tried talking to her brother one-on-one. He’s a realist. Rent a private office, and get ourselves into couples therapy. My objection is straightforward: the cost of commuting, office rent, couples therapy (no cheaper here, lower quality by all accounts), on top of our current expenses, exceed what we were paying before we moved. All this because my wife won’t adjust her behavior to accommodate my needs, or respect my job.
They often invite me to drink with them during lunch and sometimes suggest blowing off the rest of the day. Despite my repeated refusals, they persist, considering it polite. I find it rude and disrespectful to keep pushing. They’ve even labeled me as “boring”. But what really grinds my gears is when they invite me out and I decline, they think they’ve got a right to grill me about why. A few times, when I’ve had enough of their pestering, I’ll state my position more firmly, and then they’ll get real mad that I’m being “judgmental”, and think I’m better than them. So now if they invite me anywhere, I just shut it down with a simple “no” and zero explanation. Which bugs them, but at least it keeps the peace.
There are a ton of other emergent/secondary annoyances I could get into, but let’s cap it at three.
One, since I’ve said they’re both being hypocritical about me being ‘judgmental’ (even though I wasn’t) in refusing to join their plans, when the majority of their conversations are judging other people: it has become a game to them to point out every time they think I’m a hypocrite. I answered my wife from another room once. She brings it up as my ‘hypocrisy’ whenever I mention she’s yelling to her brother in another room, and she’s right next to me.
I think it’s different: her yelling in the house upsets me, but my ‘hypocrisy’, she enjoys that. We aren’t trading vices. If I realize I’m upsetting my wife, I stop doing whatever it is that’s upsetting her. She seems to be telling me that she doesn’t care to adjust her behavior to stop upsetting me. And that the real problem is that I keep talking about it, rather than just quietly suffering through it.
Two I’ve likely developed obnoxious habits just to maintain some space in conversations with my wife, such as speaking louder to overcome interruptions.
Three, my wife will talk to me at any time, without paying any attention to what I’m doing or even whether I’m wearing noise-cancelling headphones. She’ll interrupt me whilst I’m holding a mop, vacuum, trash bag to remind me to mop, vacuum, or take out the trash. She’ll interrupt me while I’m tackling a chore to give me instructions. I don’t understand them, she’ll take over, do it *the exact same way I was*, then huff about it. She’ll interrupt me whilst I’m getting ready to remind me to take my wallet, throwing off my train of thought and making me forget what I was looking for. Which I’ll then forget. She’ll interrupt me while driving, for random observations (‘look, a cute dog!’) no matter how many times I tell her it’s dangerous.
It’s hard to explain how much more restrictive this makes my life feel. I avoid tasks that will take over 20 minutes unless my wife is out. My wife and brother both mock me for traits (lousy memory, lack of focus, disorganization) which they exacerbate with their behavior.
When my wife is away from her brother, she returns to her usual self, the woman I fell for.
My gut tells me her family has a toxic way of communicating (the rest of her family are borderline abusive), and she learnt to tone down of those tendencies while away from them. She is more at ease with that way of speaking with her brother, and she falls back to it with him – and is trying to force me to adapt to it. There’s probably a side order of some history of feeling sidelined in male-dominated groups, so she’s acting out on that trauma and making sure out-talks us both. She’s got zero patience for boredom, which is why she butts in and won’t take extra time to make sure I understand – and why she thinks my ‘long rants’ are way longer and more boring than hers.
Her view is that conversations are boring unless people are excited, and excited people interrupt and talk over each other constantly. I hate that, because a conversation just feels like a constant fight to participate. It’s draining and I’d rather not socialize at all.
She describes the way I’d rather talk – back and forth – as “pompous, like you think you’re a king who can’t be interrupted”.
I don’t have a support system here since everyone I know here is through them, and everyone back home still believes I successfully rode off into the sunset. So, Reddit, how do I better communicate my needs to my wife? Both to not lose my job, and to enjoy conversations with her?