I have two sons Tyler is 21 and Adam is 17. Recently they were hanging out with both of their uncles and drinking. I have always been ok with them having a drink at 16-17 as long as they are being safe, and I would rather them be exposed to it with family I trust then trying it for the first time at a party, so I'm not upset about that part.
The uncle whose house they were at lives with his fiancee and her 16 year old daughter Kate who was upstairs sleeping. The idea came up that they should prank her. No real reason other than she was asleep so let's go get her.
They ended up going to the store (uber no one was drunk driving) and buying these huge cream pies (I know which store they are talking about and they are huge) so they snuck home and into her room. Tyler was given an old Halloween clown mask and woke her up with it. When she went to jump out of bed they began pieing her.
Honestly it makes me sick to my stomach for a couple reasons. They went into her room while she was sleeping and vulnerable, and she was outnumbered 4:1. I can just imagine them laughing and high fiving. I really did not think I raised my sons to treat women like this.
I can't do anything to Tyler but told him I was very disappointed in him, but Adam is grounded for the entire summer, no friends, no car, no phone. Adam is very upset and says I am ruining his summer. He feels it is unfair he is the only one being punished when they all participated and that this is his second to last summer of being a kid. His uncle told me I am being unfair as he egged him on and as an adult he bears the responsibility. He said Adam was just being a dumb kid and "how could he resist" The girl's mom even said I'm crazy and her daughter is fine. My husband is trying to get me to cut it down to a week or two of grounding and doesn't think it was that big of a deal
TL;DR: Both sons took part in a cruel prank on a sleeping girl and I can only punish one. I am being made to feel I am unfair/too strict
48 comments
The whole summer might be too harsh, but two weeks might not be. What you really need to see is your son thinking about why that was inappropriate.
Why can’t you do anything to Tyler? The inequality of your punishment decision is outrageous.
You’re being a good parent by enforcing consequences for shitty actions.
If Tyler isn’t living under your roof, I get how he can’t really be punished, and you have no control over other people’s kids. You should have a talk with your younger son and have him try to explain to you why he thinks his actions shouldn’t have consequences, just because no one else’s did – does he actually think that no one else seeing consequences absolves him? Does he realize that if they chose to, the girl and her mom could report him and his older brother for assault? Because that is what they did.
He needs to realize that he is responsible for his own actions even when other people don’t take responsibility for theirs. Thinking otherwise shows just how immature he and all the others involved in that prank are. They’re thinking like children instead of adults.
How does Kate feel about things?
How is Kate? Did she confirm that’s all that happened?
Your sons are shit, (sorry needs to be said) but yeah the punishment feels excessive especially since they cannot both be equally punished. I’d honestly refuse to give them any gifts or assistance as punishment. You know like take back a portion of college funds or all birthday/holiday funds for the next two years and give it to Kate. Doesn’t have to be crazy significant- but meaningful enough to hurt, that way it’s a fair punishment both boys face.
Nonetheless without a punishment your sons are destined to do worse later bc they only learn they got away with it.
On one hand I’m with you in that I would be absolutely horrified if my son did that to a girl. That sounds like a nasty joke in general. So with that said, I’d reevalute your relationship with the Uncle who proposed this whole prank idea.
On the other hand Adam was technically following not 1, but 3 adults, all elder members of the family, so you could cut him some slack.
I think you should have a heart to heart with Adam. If you feel like he understands where you’re coming from, and you think he’s genuinely and sincerely sorry for the prank, you could cut down the punishment.
BUT, if he gets defensive(standing on he was following elders) or doesn’t seem to understand the gravity of the situation, welp, the punishment fits the crime, and he’s also not far off from being an adult, so it’s a reminder that all of our actions have consequences.
I wouldn’t believe what the girl’s mom said about her being fine. She’s probably used to her husband acting like a complete idiot and excusing his behavior if she’s brushing this off. Both of your boys should sincerely apologize to the girl if they haven’t already, and ask if there’s anything they can do to make it up to her.
Sounds like you didn’t bring up your sons right or their uncle isn’t a good influence.
Punishing him without him recognising what he did was wrong is futile. Sounds like you need to have a chat with both your sons.
I hate to say any of this but it sounds like there are some extremely unhealthy dynamics going on at your uncle’s house and I think you need to reevaluate your relationship with him and his wife going forward. I don’t know what kind of dad thinks. It’s a good idea to throw a cream pie at his teenage daughter while she’s asleep, let alone involving his nephews, but where there smoke there’s fire and there is something going on here. This is not normal or appropriate or healthy. I don’t know what’s going on – I don’t know if it’s an extreme lack of maturity or some kind of abuse – but this is clearly not a good role model for your kids or someone who shares your values.
He has the threat of a lost summer looming over him. Maybe give him an opportunity to repent and reduce the sentence. Ask him why he believes this is happening and what an appropriate punishment would be. If he puts emphasis on ‘second last summer as a kid’ point out that terrorising people like that can permanently ruin places they considered safe, that if we are thinking grand scheme for him then the same ought to apply for her.
Has he apologised properly to her? Does he truly understand what went down and why it was bad? What does she say about this, what does she want for him? Rather than put him in kid jail could you maybe have him do something more practical as punishment, like even if its just more chores or he gets freedom but loses one day a week for summer and etc.
I think ramifications are important. I think really getting across that what they did was gross and pointless is important. I think it is a good lesson about how alcohol is a really tricky drug, and if there was any doubt it could lead to negative actions he has experienced it first hand. But I do think an entire summer is a lot and will likely result in significant resentment. I think the go big and then discuss it and dial back approach can force people to reflect on the situation and be more engaged with the resolution.
I’d wake him up screaming in the middle of the night. Then I’d tell him I’m going to do it again. And I would…. sporadically.
And once he complained, I’d ask him how it feels to not feel safe in his own bed.
And if he seemed to get it, I’d let it go at that point.
>The girl’s mom even said I’m crazy and her daughter is fine.
This is disturbing as hell. That poor girl is getting more support from you than her own mother. I hope you can stand your ground. At the very least he should write a letter of apology.
What i havent heard here is all participating members apologizing to Kate.
sit down with adam, tell him his punishment will be reduced if he apologizes and have a discussion with him about how its NOT ok to do anything with/to an unconscious woman of any kind or sort, ask him how he would like to be belittled and humiliated while asleep in a place he felt safe.
when i got grounded as a teenager i was never given a time frame i was just grounded – i would need to show consistent improvement of my behaviour before even slight allowances were made. Just tell him he is grounded till you see fit and if his behaviour changes give him little bits of space until he has full space, if it doesn’t stand firm
He was being egged on by 3 adults. Their uncle should absolutely take most of the blame. They shouldn’t be going over there for a while.
Also a reason why underage drinking isn’t a great idea.
“I have always been ok with them having a drink at 16-17 as long as they are being safe”.
They are no longer being safe. They assaulted a sleeping girl in the middle of the night.
“I would rather them be exposed to it with family I trust”
You obviously can’t trust this person, or your older son.
You are letting your teenage son get trashed with his older brother and grown ass uncle who apparently don’t make great choices. What grown ass man wants to get drunk with a teenager?
Did you know that people who start drinking that young are 4 times more likely to develop Alcohol Use Disorder (Alcoholism) later in like. Here are some statistics for you. Take it from an alcoholic that started drinking at 14, it is hard to stop! Alcohol stole years of my life. Don’t encourage teen drinking.
“Comparing those who began drinking before age 14 years vs age 21 years or older, 47% vs 9% experienced lifetime dependence, 27% vs 4% within 10 years of onset, and 33% vs 2% before age 25 years (Kaplan-Meier survival estimates).”
Something is wrong with that house and if it were my daughter I would end the relationship and cut everyone off. There is something very creepy about sneaking into a 16 year old girls bedroom with masks on to pull a prank. Everyone says you’re being to harsh but what about the step daughters trauma.
She said she’s fine but she’s not fine. Anyone who says they’re fine doesn’t really mean it especially after the cruel prank they pulled. I don’t have sobs I have a daughter and I would be livid at all them. I would also be reevaluating the relationship with my brother.
Ugh that poor girl.
First, my children would not be spending ANY unsupervised time with that uncle (or just no time at all). He is not safe for them to be with.
I do think the boys need some kind of punishment. The whole summer is probably excessive and will not result in your son reflecting on what he did, why he did it, why he didn’t have the fortitude to refuse to participate and how it could affect the victim going forward. I think I’d lessen it but I’d put a big emphasis on him convincing me he that he understands the previously listed issues. Also, he clearly is not ready to be drinking so that needs to stop also.
As for Tyler, I would have a very serious discussion with him. Not only so that he understands the above but also that you cannot trust him to be with Adam unsupervised. That he should have been the older brother role model that teaches his brother that there are no circumstances in which we do anything to a vulnerable young woman that she cannot consent to! He would know exactly how disappointed in him I am.
Good luck.
Can you talk to the girl? Take her out for a lunch date.
So, the adults took part in this? That’s the real problem. The boys have still-developing brains that makes things like this seem like a good idea. The adults are responsible for seeing the downside and putting an end to it.
>I have always been ok with them having a drink at 16-17
There’s a reason we have a legal drinking age. Because young people do fucking stupid shit when they’re drunk. You letting them drink at 16-17 is shit parenting.
>I can’t do anything to Tyler but told him I was very disappointed in him
Why can’t you do anything? Is he not your kid anymore after he turns 21?
Adam’s punishment should stand and you need to find a way to punish Tyler. Put the ‘uncles’ in a timeout from your kids until Adam’s punishment is over.
Worst of all….. 4 men in a young girls bedroom while she is asleep??? How the fuck is this girls mom not loosing her shit. If I were this girls dad, both uncles and your boys would’ve had the living shit kicked out of them.
So you’ve heard from everyone except from the person it actually happened to? I don’t think these other people get to speak on her behalf. Talk to the girl, if you can, and ask her how she is. You might be the only person who actually cares here.
I would be extremely upset and there would be a lot of discussion and there would be consequences.
First thing, did your younger son fully understand that what he did was wrong, even if other adults around him don’t think it was that bad? Did he try to brush it off or play it down, or did he act and verbalize his understanding? How he acted about you being upset, to me, should dictate how harsh the punishment needs to be. It would last however long it takes for him to have thought about that very hard and decided it was a bad move, and apologize sincerely.
Tbh, if it takes the whole summer, it takes the whole summer. Doesn’t matter if it’s his second to last childhood summer. Better to learn this lesson before he hits adulthood and the consequences could be more severe.
Secondly, I wouldn’t want him to hang around this uncle unsupervised any more, because he obviously doesn’t have the same values you’re trying to instill in your kids, and drinking with him is pretty obviously not a smart idea. He’s an adult, presumably, if he’s old enough to have a girlfriend with a teenage daughter. He should have more respect for that girl and his own home, and should be trying to be a role model for his nephews.
I would be questioning if I wanted my kids around the girlfriend either, because her reaction seems inappropriate. If that was my daughter I would be livid. The girl was probably scared to death, then she was basically made fun of, and her whole room was probably ruined. Then people are acting like it’s not a big deal? Not cool.
Third, you’re right that you can’t do much to your older son. And it’s ok if your younger son feels like that’s unfair, sometimes life is unfair and sometimes we get consequences when other people don’t even if they deserve to. It sucks. It should make him think harder about doing something disrespectful and dumb, and think about the possible consequences to himself regardless of what others say or do. I would still have a lot to say to my son if your older son was mine, and he would know very clearly how upset I am and how he didn’t do the right thing in front of his younger brother.
Think your punishment is going to lose its focus, and bitterness will replace any lessons learned.
Teaching a 17 year old to be a man means more than punishing. He’s got tons of energy, you can only hold it down for so long. For punishment, I’d tell him something like this: Your Uncle and older brother are adults, so do not compare your situation to theirs.
1) Im extremely disappointed that you would follow along with a degrading prank on a sleeping girl, this summer, we will be working together to improve your judgment and ability to avoid a herd mentality.
2) You said its the last summer as a kid, so for the next few weeks, you will be learning to 100% take on the role of adult. You will be, EVERY day, cleaning, cooking, shopping, setting the table, etc. you will then be helping me manage bills and expenses, and thinking of how you can do work to reduce those. This will be for a few weeks. We will start together. Eventually, you will be doing it all, perfectly and proudly. If you get really good, you will get time for your summer stuff AFTER everything else is done.
3) At least 1 or more times / week, you will cook a family dinner. The dinner will be one of Kates favorites, and she will be invited. I’ll be ensuring Tyler and your Uncle are helping you in the kitchen, serving Kate, and cleaning up.
4) Your summer will be one of service and gratitude for family. There will be time for yourself, if you find pride in your work and your service, and show gratitude to everyone. If you can do all this, you will be on a good path to being a good man, and I will be proud we took a shameful event and made something positive from it.
5) Lets start by my showing you how to clean toilets…
Gently ask him what he would have done if they had started pushing her around or hitting her. What if this wasn’t a family member but just some random girl? Is it OK to make people feel scared and to hurt them just because they were asleep? Pies in faces hurt and can damage your nose and eyes easily if done hard enough.
Help him to understand the connection between 1) seeing a sleeping woman and feeling an urge to make her scared and 2) rape. Please, explicitly and honestly, TELL your son not to ever rape a woman. For real. People don’t always SAY this out loud to young men. This is a good opportunity for him to make a connection in his brain right now that could help him out in the coming years.
The boys ‘cream pied’ a teenage girl? Seriously, that is so close to sexual assault.
How does the daughter feel about the prank?
The daughter’s safe space was breeched.
I’ve been bullied by male family for years and not once did I find it entertaining in any way, although each and every time the males had a good laugh always at my expense.
Even after I got married, my husband said it wasn’t his position to come between family.
Stand your ground mom.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in the parenting advice of the people who facilitated your son assaulting their daughter in her sleep.
What does your son learn from this harsh punishment? There could be better ways to teach him empathy.
You’re allowing a minor to drink alcohol and then punishing him for his actions with the people you allowed him to drink with. The uncle is at fault, not the drunken child.
Sounds like letting your 17 yo drink with his uncle should maybe not be happening any longer. Any adult who would encourage such a cruel act is definitely not someone I would trust DRUNK with my also drunk 17 yo.
I find it odd that OP (and most of the comments) are giving both OPs brother’s ie the uncles, a huge pass on this. As the adults in this situation, they allowed this to happen. IMO they bear at least some responsibility for this
Also, this sentence is a bit vague.
> The idea came up that they should prank her.
Who’s idea was it?
Your son needs to understand that what he was involved in was assault and that he’s lucky that no one is pressing charges against him. The fact that none of the adults involved in this are taking this seriously should be a huge red flag for you that the uncles are not good role models and you can not trust them with your son’s safety or wellbeing.
Perhaps instead of a summer long grounding you should have him do a research project on assault and pranks gone wrong so he can understand the severity of his actions. Or give him the option of doing “community service” type chores to lower the length of grounding. I would also think long and hard on if you are going to allow him to hang out with his uncles with alcohol for a while.
Who cleaned it up?
Not only is this a terrifying way to wake up, but it would also leave a devastating mess. Whipped cream everywhere. Everywhere. Her hair, pillow, pajamas, sheets, bedside table and everything on it. Cream pies are fat and sugar. That shit would take hours to clean. Multiple loads of laundry.
This girl deserves an apology, a personal maid, and a new family. Your son deserves to be the personal maid all summer. The uncle deserves complete social ostracization.
I remember when I was 17 I would have followed the “prank” especially if an adult was the main idea man. His uncle is taking some of the accountability. Maybe ask the girl if the punishment fits the crime and ask your son if he understands exactly why he’s being punished. If she thinks you’re being too harsh then go easier on him. If he understands why it was wrong then he’s learned a lesson and what’s the point of being so harsh?
2 weeks should be enough
I work at a substance use disorder treatment center. I’ll give you one guess what 99% of our clients have in common…
Don’t encourage underage drinking.
That poor girl. I had older second cousins who would do stuff like this. We were not fine. None of the adults gave a shit. It taught me at a young age that boys are valued more than girls. Your son got off easy and the others should feel like pieces of shit.
Does your son even truly understand why it was cruel? Does he understand the gender violence you’re probing at? If you cant explain the larger issue at hand and the gender violence implications of this then ofc your son is going to think you’re being unfair.
>The poor housekeeper I’m sure. That woman deserves a raise but I know they’d never make Kate clean it up. They don’t make her do even the most basic chores
**OP you didn’t mention your family has** ***money*****.** Makes this light up very differently. Have any of these men known what’s it’s like to be in fear of harm from anyone in life? Consequences may be a foreign concept to these men entirely. That poor girl, is she pretending to be ‘okay’ because it’s better for her mom’s life or is she used to being mistreated all the time by the soon-to-be stepdad and/or already traumatized so much she can’t tell how bad this is?
So many levels of dysfunction going on here..
The uncles instigated but did Tyler and Adam not have any clue of how messed up it is to disturb and scare someone while they are sleeping??
They all booked an uber, and went to store to buy pies.. so much effort and planning does not sound like the it was just a mindless thought that they acted on.. this seems like pretty well thought
She was in her room, sleeping she was not just scared by a clown waking her up but she was assaulted and touched against her will.. 4 males ambushing a 16 yr old girl is terrifying!!!
Kate’s mother has no protective instincts.. I am more protective of my dogs against ticks than her for her daughter.
Punishment should be for everyone not just Adam and a punishment without actual understanding of crime is futile. They all (mom included) need to take up sexual harassment or anti harassment and anti bullying trainings to never ever do this again with anyone..
Kate should be encouraged to speak up about what she feels and what according to her is the right punishment. She needs to feel empowered and heard here.
If I were Kate, I would file a police report
Was it your 17 year olds idea? Or was he following along with the 3 adults in the house? Considering he was the minor in the house and all adults were in on the prank, and it was pies, which is mostly harmless, your punishment is severe. Here’s what I’d do, give him less time, like 2 weeks, and make those 2 weeks miserable and educational. Make him study about why you don’t prank women in their beds alone at night. Make him learn what could have happened if things went very wrong. What if she had an extreme reaction, not knowing what was happening, and harmed someone or herself. If this happened to me, I’d grab the first thing I could and hit them hard, and the law would be on my side. Someone else mentioned the problems being a follower to people wanting to do bad things. If criminal, the teen follower goes down as well just for being there. Then have him write a paper about why what he did was wrong. Have him apologize to her in person, along with the 3 adults (don’t let your adult son get away with his behavior). Then let him enjoy the rest of his summer.
After reading your comments what punishment are you giving yourself? You state that you let you minor child/ren drink with family you trust but your comments speak a lack of trust with these family members.
Then there is this comment- The poor housekeeper I’m sure. That woman deserves a raise but I know they’d never make Kate clean it up. They don’t make her do even the most basic chores
Why should Kate or the housekeeper clean it up. They didn’t make the mess.
Your choice to punish your child now is a bit off don’t you think? You set up this behavior. Letting them drink with their uncle that came up with the plan and think it’s funny. Having two beers with this uncle seems to be real different than having wine at home.
>The girl’s mom even said I’m crazy and her daughter is fine. My husband is trying to get me to cut it down to a week or two of grounding and doesn’t think it was that big of a deal\
I don’t believe the girl’s mom’s BS for a second. She’s part of the problem in that house and it seems like your husband is also part of why your sons seem to think that any part of this was ok.
I think it is extreme, but I would also hate it if I was in the girls position. I don’t like pranks either. I am not sure. I agree that he needs to be punished though and see what you are trying to prevent. I think you are right. Just take it week by week and re-evaluate.
Yes, that’s overkill.
Remember, you’re the one letting a minor drink in the supervision of an uncle with questionable judgement, here.
After reading through some of your replies, I just need to tell you that your family has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. You seem to be under the impression that drinking age limits are dumb because it’s better for kids to learn how to properly handle alcohol with a trusted adult. Your sons drinking with their uncles and assaulting an unconscious girl is not an example of the healthy relationship you claim to want. I suggest addressing that ASAP.