Are dating apps terrible for the average men today?

48 comments

1. Dating apps are all about looks-maximizing and great pictures. People swipe on pictures. They decide who they reply to based on your pictures first and your message second.

   If you’re a 6, you can do well with dating apps if you looks-maximize and get good pictures.

   If you’re a 6 with average pictures you will do poorly, since most men have shitty pictures – the standard for what is considered average is very low.

   If you’re a 6 with bad pictures it’s hopeless.

   So, are dating apps horrible for an average guy? Yes and no. It’s horrible you have average / bad pictures and it will be ok if you have good pictures and looks-maximize. And paying for more exposure and being in a big city helps a lot too – if you already have good pictures.

2. People are reduced to an image you swipe left or right on

   Unless you look like a 10 dating apps are hopeless

3. The difficulty with being a 6/10 is that you’re effectively a 4/10 on dating apps. It’s worth noting that, in theory in the US, a 5/10 is someone that is 5’9, 190 lbs, with modest achievements (salary, university, passions). However, I think that on dating apps an “average” man to women needs to be at least 6 foot, fit, and ambitious. If you aren’t those things, it can be harder than it would be irl.

4. Dating apps are terrible for men and women. When you get few or no matches it seems like getting a lot of matches would be incredible, but most of the time the matches that women get are just horrible. Dudes that expect that when they message “hey” that the woman will immediately want to bring them a sandwich, give them head, and leave so they can play video games. Low effort is universal, and made worse by the difficulty of initiating a conversation in text.

5. As a 6 is is gonna be tough.  Based on swiping data, your female counterparts (female 6’s) are matching with male 7-8s.  Those guys will “like” women below their league as they are easy scores sexually so those women will like them back instead of you.  Over time those women believe that those guys are their league and all men are jerks because they can’t get a relationship from them.  They will be loathe to lower their looks standard to be more realistic as they have become accustomed to better looking men.  

6. Dating apps are a tool; they’re not a waste of time if you approach them with the mentality that they’re just one option and that they’re *work*.

   The fact is that you’re one guy in a sea of guys, and apps are going to be extra hard for you if you can’t make yourself stand out. The average guy sends *way* more messages than he receives. The average women *receives* far, *far* more messages than she sends.

   So, sure, they’re kind of terrible in that sense. But they’re still an option and they still work sometimes, but you have to put a *lot* of effort in. For some context, I’ve used apps when I’ve been single, and I generally had pretty decent luck meeting people, and I would say, on paper, I’m probably “less desirable” than you describe yourself. At the time, I was 40, recently divorced, did not own a home, did have a respectable and interesting job (working as a librarian), 5’10”, about 10-15 lbs over weight, bald, and have a very visible skin condition, but I also made sure that I had a good variety of pictures showing me engaged and happy, and I worked very hard to make sure my profile was engaging and interesting.

   It also helps that I went in with basically zero expectations: Most messages don’t lead to replies. Most replies don’t lead to meet-ups. Most meet-ups don’t lead to dates.

   I think it also helps if you go in with the goal of finding *good* matches. If you’re getting dry, low effort replies from someone who isn’t willing to engage in a conversation, *end the conversation*. When you realize that you can just say “no” to people, some of the frustration vanishes, because you’re not trying to make something work with people who clearly aren’t actually interested.

7. Dating apps is hit or miss. Occasionally you’ll match with someone serious but majority are mentally ill, traumatized, low effort cause they’re sick of over hyping things only for it to not work out, baggage and lonely people. I’ve read men make up the majority in these apps compared to women so the ratio is already not in our favor as men. In order to stand out you need to be the cream of the crop, above average looking. You can skew things in your favor by curating your profile like a skilled advertising marketer. You said you’re in sales right? You already have that working for you. Treat dating apps the same. You need to win them over with something that captivates them. Women love to imagine. Who’s getting more matches? Average 6/10 joe with a basic selfie or average 6/10 joe with someone taking a photo of them as they ride into the sunset on a lion. Catch my drift. Other then that, in person always beats dating apps in my opinion.

8. 60% of dating app users are men so women have more options to choose from than men do, which understandably leads many of them to be more picky. The chance of finding a serious relationship using dating apps is pretty low.

9. Average is not enough, there are tens of thousands of average profiles of men just like you on there. And there are a couple hundred to about ~1000 profiles in your city that are men who are above average in terms of looks, money, social skills. That’s what your competition is, all women are swiping right only on the 1000 profiles, and will continue to do so. So you have to get in that category.

   Last I checked it was 90% of women only swipe right on 10% of profiles they come across.

10. I’m not a man but… Coming from a 29 (almost 30) year old woman with a secure job, independent life, also good at socializing and have been told positive things about appearance – dating apps suck. Even though when I used them in the past I’d get a ton of matches, they were horrible. Usually assholes who also put in little to no effort, weirdos, or people who never worked through their personal issues.

    I have heard it’s way harder for men to use them, though, and I can see how. Apps are abysmal and a money making scheme pretty much.

    I just ended a 4 year relationship and vowed never to go back to apps. Though I’m not looking for anything just yet, I am complimenting people “in the wild” and it seems to be well received for the most part.

    Good luck to you. I’m sorry it’s so frustrating. I would honestly try to meet people in a social setting, maybe doing an activity where others will be doing the same thing (i.e. hiking, rock climbing, live local music, social stuff like this). It’s tough.

11. Yep, welcome to dating apps for the average guy. It’s good to use as an extra option for dating, you might get lucky who knows. But I would say if you’re a charasmatic and social guy, might as well meet people in real life. Results will be better.

    You’re not doing anything wrong.

12. Yes it’s garbage if you don’t fit beauty standards and or are from a minority

13. yeah they suck no matter how you look. The user base is >= 70% male. every dude is competing for the same chicks on there so your chances are slim to none. Also, conventionally attractive girls dont need dating apps, they already have an enormous amount of options elsewhere . So the girls who are on dating apps are usually not so good looking if you catch my drift. Total waste of time

14. Bro remember. Dating apps want you to sign up and pay money. Their algorithms are terrible. Try them but just use them as toilet entertainment. Do real life things. Book store, coffee place, restaurant bars etc

15. I think it depends. Are you looking for 10/10 women or those who are more in line with you? Are you okay with women who carry a little extra weight but are pretty? Etc etc, FYI it can be rough for women in these apps too. Maybe for different reasons but tough nonetheless.

16. All of those things get you maybe halfway to being able to get noticed by mediocre women on apps.

17. Scams, gold diggers, girls who want simps, cheaters, misandrist, and girls who just use you for your stuff. That’s a dating app very rarely do they like you 

18. It’s bad for everyone, to be honest.

19. **Tldr: men struggle getting matches, and women struggle landing a relationship. Women have first say (because men want sex usually?), men have the final say (because women want relationship and long term usually?)**

    Based on word of mouth and data, my understanding and reasoning is

    **For men** – women on average swipe right only about 8% of the time whereas men swipe right about 40% of the time. Moreover, there have been studies where they found that women rate majority of men as below average in terms of attractiveness (consistent with the swipe ratio). Lastly, from what I remember, they also found that the number of M to F ratio in dating apps is 3 to 1 approximately.

    If you combine all that, women are essentially low in supply, even just slightly above average women are in high demand and because of that…. They can afford to be as picky as they want without any consequences.

    They control the dating market on Tinder. They can say no or ick and go to the next person. Unless you put in extra effort to stand out, most of the attractive women there will simply go for the most attractive men available, and even then… they can just leave them at the slightest ick.

    **For women** – since women have the power in the online dating market, they pretty much decide the trend. Like I said above, they can usually date up and it creates the illusion of choice (and that they are more desirable than they actually are in real life). Moreover, dating app is rather superficial.

    All of the things you mentioned, the only factor that works in your favour is your fit body. 5’10” is perfectly fine but in online dating, it’s looked down upon by women (or they can at least filter you out when they are feeling picky). Your financial stability and having your shit together is not something you can display to potential partners through a screen of pictures and texts.

    So what’s the difficulty of online dating for women? It’s usually finding out which guys are honest with their intentions. It’s the same exact reason why if you lurk around this subreddit, you’ll find constant posts about men being aholes and using women for sex. They are generally men with options who only want sex but lie and manipulate the woman to believe they’re after a relationship. These small percentages of men essentially control the dating market too. Low in supply and high in demand.

20. A lot of these dating apps have become pay to win now so paying for a “premium account” essentially grants you access to the app the way it should have always been utilized i.e. more matches and more exposure to potential matches. It sucks and has totally ruined online dating for everyone.

21. Dating apps are a scam. They make it seem like it’s just a swipe and match platform where eventually people will pair up with their looks match but that is not the case at all.

    The apps are scripted to get the most amount of money out of their user base. The only people who benefit are the very attractive ones who are used as poster profiles to try to retain user engagement.

    Since women are so scarce they will only see the top profiles unless they swipe forever. They won’t even get to your profile because they will already have a swarm of likes. But almost all of these likes will just be men looking to hook up.

22. Awful- scams, flankers, ghosts. IRL is a million times better. I’m only on there because on a rare occasion it gets me laid l.

23. Generally yes, dating apps are not worth it for men unless you are in the top 10-20 percent of men from a physical attraction and success standpoint.

    An average woman can go on dating app and have 100 likes in a day, where as an average man will have only a few and maybe even none.

    The online dating system is just broken at this point and as a man it is much more effective to go out and talk to women outside of apps and within hobbies and activities.

24. They are indeed terrible. But, you should only use these as an accessory and nothing else. Like keeping it in your back pocket. Just download it, flesh out your profile, visit it once a day, swipe a few times then exit out.

25. I think the fascinating thing is men have all the problems women have on dating apps…but it’s worse. It’s tough to even get a match. When you get one it’s like getting lucky…but then when you get a match, half of them never talk or respond to messages and then say the men are boring when they won’t even attempt to engage with you. So then getting a women to respond to messages is like finding a needle in a haystack…BUT then those women could randomly decide to stop messaging or hit you with the tried and true “I’m never on here” next step is to get a date scheduled is like pulling teeth, it’s like finding a four leaf clover! BUT then she may ghost you randomly or cancel the date last minute and disappear

    So…to get a match…to get her to respond to messages…to get her to schedule a date and to get her to show up to the date…AND then to like you…it’s like winning the powerball while simultaneously getting struck by lightning. Dating apps are a nightmarish hellscape for the average man.

26. Honestly, yeah it’s so tough out there for “average” guys. Women get so many matches they just don’t have to try. I saw some crazy stats about matching % and basically the top 10% if guys get all the matches and then it drops dramatically. I met my partner on an app so it can be done. But it was like a year of work. You really put in a lot of effort. I had multiple first dates where the women didn’t look like their pictures. Which was so wild to me. Did not take into account being catfished. But also, if you ask for a full body pic you’re a dickhead lol. So…. What I say to people is it sucks. But if you’re someone like me whose hobbies aren’t social activities, then it’s a good way to meet someone. But it’s going to take serious effort and patience.

27. They’re terrible for everyone bruh

28. Yes

29. Dating apps are terrible for both sexes. Women get spammed by F bois and sincere guys sending sincere messages who actually want to meet women don’t ever get seen because women understandably give up after seeing several messages from F bois, and some times you’re just not pretty enough.

    I have a 6 figure job, great benefits, own my home/vehicles, tall, funny, intelligent and can have a great conversation. All dating apps have done for me is waste my money. It’s just not worth it dude. Take your chances at meeting a decent woman at the deli counter. The chances of meeting someone online are astronomically low.

30. Delete it, unless you want bottom of the barrel women. It will test your sanity. Even average girls get matched with almost every guy. Being The most attractive man isn’t even remotely close to what what women get out of the app. If you wanna hit on, and pursue girls below your level, that require high maintenance, be my guest. Also no to mention they have 1000+ other matches waiting ready to go

    Also, I’m a very social guy with character, I cannot convey my character though these apps. Much better just to hit bars at reasonable hours

31. Personal story:

    30 yrs old. African American. Live in LA. Short guy. 5”5. Work as an attorney. Very active/charismatic. Workout daily. Basketball/boxing/running. (Ran college track).

    I started therapy while still law school 2022. (December).

    Downloaded Hinge same month. Uploaded my Best photos (I’ve traveled to 40 countries). Made sure to put catchy/thoughtful comments under each. Made sure each 5-6 photos were different and also recent.

    I literally after getting intentional in first week got like 6-7 replies. Within that batch, I took out the FIRST girl who replied back. Didn’t over think didn’t get to forward. I also dated the other others and took them all out on a nice small date in a 2 week span .

    The first girl hit it off a little more and we met again. Anyway: one year later: she is my fiancée and we live together happier than ever.

    I think us Bros are all in our own heads. The environment with social media is TOXIX and contaminated.

    But I’m telling you: the best way is to look in the mirror and say I want THIS. But i NEED what’s best for me. I remember saying that and not getting overzealous and asking for ANYTHING in return the first date.

    Everyone finds their niche. All about confidence and self awareness. The good women can smell it. It’s different because everyone in both sides are the same.

32. Not a complete waste of time, but it’s not something I’d solely rely on for finding dates.

33. Things I’ve learned about using the apps..

    Use only one at a time and delete it after 2 weeks. You’ll get your initial exposure each time and then fade into oblivion. Get all your swiping out of your system, engage in the few chats you get for potential/practice, and delete it before it becomes obsessive/depressing.

    Take at least 2 weeks off before installing the next app. Reflect, grow, and recover properly each time. Don’t install the next one until you feel happy with yourself again.

    Work on and improve the written part of your profile each time. There’s no one “right” way to do it, but there’s definitely a lot of “wrong” ways. Be yourself, be honest, be a little funny/charming, and don’t come off desperate or stupid or ignorant or any of those other lame things.

    Keep collecting pics of yourself. Take a few good selfies when you’re feeling hot, get a pic of you doing a hobby or two, change up the locations, clean your room so it doesn’t look like you’re a slob, don’t add others in your pics too much, and try to stay away from too many douche-y gym/beach/topless pics.

    Engage in the chats, they’re fun!.. but be ready to move on if it dies out. Don’t get hung up over someone that you don’t actually know just because they typed that they also like avocados, Legos, and roller skating. Don’t obsess!

    Don’t over expose yourself. Until you actually meet them several times stay away from trauma dumping, complaining, bad mouthing whatever, telling all your dirty little secrets, over explaining what you want in a relationship, blah blah blah. Keep it light, simple, and fun. If something takes too long to type or is very personal tell them it’s a better story in person. Put your best foot forward.

    Have fun and ask lots of questions. Find out tiny details that are actually important (like what’s their favorite colour!) and, more importantly, discover how they communicate. Pick up on that person’s cues. How quick/slow do they respond, do they write one word or 5 sentence answers, do they use emojis or lol’s, what vibe are they giving off, and so on. Adapt and grow with the conversation.

    Unless you are specifically targeting people that are looking for one hot night of fucking, stay away from being a pervert and being overly sexual.. but be sure to throw in a flirty line once or twice a day. Show you’re interested, these are dating apps after all, but don’t be a pig about it.

    Plan a date after 2-4 days of texting, you’ll know if you’re both interested enough by then and you don’t want to lose the building excitement of the “new shiny thing” in your lives.

    And finally, for now, always remember that these are real people on the other side of the keyboard. Be nice, be positive, be a good human and don’t hurt others. This includes be clear about what your intentions are.

    Good luck out there, you got this !!

34. I would say 80% of the time, a dating app is a hook up. It is rare when you find someone actually looking for a mental connection.
    In my opinion, I think dating apps are moral killers for young men. Especially your age group.
    Seems younger women are looking for validation of, “Am I pretty?” So tell me I am. The other half are looking for men to give them money. Neither have intentions of meeting, unless it’s for a free meal, and even then, they use it as a tik tock moment to showcase how they were expected to put out sex for the meal.
    This is just information I have heard from guys using dating apps.
    Naw….step away from the app. Meet women the old-fashioned way. That way, you sorta know what you’re getting. Unless you’re looking to fulfill that physical need. If so, then go with god my son, and wear a condom.

35. I honestly don’t think dating apps are good for most people. Especially outside of hookups.

    I saw other people mention how they are a business, and thus, finding you a long-term partner loses them money… which is already a really great point to be made.

    However, I also find they are awful for self-esteem. I’m an average looking gal. I got a ton of matches, but none of them ever led to anything meaningful or good. I also find people start lowering their standards(not good for self-esteem) as they swipe in attempts to just make some kind of match or connection. It’s all just very superficial as well, and I think it’s taken a huge toll on how people view dating in general now. I look back and realize most of my relationships that came out of apps were the result of me settling for the first semi-decent person after dealing with back to back awful first dates. They also usually weren’t great people, but it seemed like they were comparatively to some of the absolutely bonkers situations I’d dealt with.

    I prefer in person connections. Live your life, go out with friends more, meet your friends friends. This is the best way. I’m 29, and this is how I found my current partner, whom I’m pretty sure is gonna be the guy I marry. If I saw him on an app, he’s probably not someone I would have swiped on. Aesthetically, we’re opposites. However, we are on the same page in every way that matters. The more I got to know him, the stronger my feelings became because we wanted all the same things. However, I would have never made a connection with him if not organically.

    A lot of people will sound great on paper(or on apps), but I think a lot of people are missing out on finding the right person by not attempting to find that person organically. Sometimes, the person we suspect the least will end up being the perfect person for you.

36. The ratio on dating apps is 80/20 men to women.

    In that pool of women you will have a lot of bots and girls trying to get followers on IG and Onlyfans.

    The algorithm will give you a couple of matches instantly to get you hooked then it buries your profile at the bottom of the pile to keep you swiping every day.

    Every real girl on their has hundreds of dudes in her inbox so a 6/10 guy will never get noticed.

    Dating apps now are designed to get men to pay for subscriptions and keep them participating forever.

    Its demoralizing and will destroy your self esteem.

    You have a lot going for you. You are much better off approaching women in real life.

37. Yes- try to date outside apps you will date leagues above the women you meet in apps. Do more activities real world and practice making warm conversation with women

38. They are for men and women a nightmare it’s a huge wave of creep and sexual harrassment for women and ignored like they don’t matter for men. No one deserves this. Women feel unsafe and men feel unwanted

39. These threads always descend into a war over who is to blame for the dating crisis, men or women. Truth is, it’s neither; it’s the apps themselves. Yes, it is undoubtedly true that most men receive little attention; but this is because heterosexual culture is still premised on men being the competitors and women the choosers. Apps just compound this a thousandfold. In a way I can’t blame women. If I were a women and had thousands of men to choose from based on nothing but a profile pick I’d be ultra-choosy too. If a pic and a list of stats is all you’ve got to choose from and you’re not getting a true real life impression of someone then you will, almost through no fault of your own, adopt a shallow consumerist mentality.

    Equally, some men can default to their worst – emboldened to make grotty comments as they succumb to nihilism and seek out cheap thrills. They’re not blameless but the app is bringing this out in them.

    Without a human context, both sexes can in different ways can adopt nihilistic or sociopathic tendencies.

    Dating apps have been a disaster. We should naturally meet in person where we can connect and assess each other in the round. You cannot expect anyone to behave in a perfectly humanistic way if they’re just interacting with a screen.

40. Patrolling these apps makes me wish for Nuclear winter. Honestly they’re a wasteland, I’ve been using them for a week. After friends telling me to get on them. I’ve just got out a 10 year relationship with a great woman, am 27. I’d say am not bad looking am 5ft11 black curly hair, green eyes, tanned skin, lean and fit. Most my photos are traveling or doing a hobby. I’ve had about 13 matches. Most I’m not attracted too and have the worst conversation skills about. It seems better to just chat to women in person. Coffee shops,book stores, or places were people do hobbies.

41. Dating apps are mostly men. So the numbers are not in your favor based on that alone.

42. The dude who founded Grinder has some excellent points on why dating apps are a disaster for men looking for a heterosexual relationship. I’m sure someone can provide a link to his recent comments which were spot on.

43. Yes they’re awful

44. There’s no sense of community anymore

45. It is a complete waste of time and money for the description that you provided about yourself.

46. To answer your question, yes they are and as a AVG looking man you should avoid them at all cost.

47. It’s not just terrible for men, it’s also terrible for women. I wrote up a whole bio in the apps, with full body pics and even listed my weight. So far I only matched with 2 guys, and one of them didn’t respond. My friend showed me how it looks like for guys, and it’s all carbon copy banality, with identical women in bikinis with no bios. I guess men aren’t interested in a well-adjusted, decent looking woman with financial stability. A lot of the men I see on the apps should be in therapy, not on the apps.

48. Don’t use dating apps unless you wanna feel like shit bro